Monzante: G1 racehorse, winner of >$500k, dies for $4k

[Big_Tag]

[QUOTE=saratoga;7090022]
Um, there is none to very little turnout available at any track I’ve ever been to, unless you maybe count something like a round pen, which is even rare, so if a horse is at a track its a safe assumption it is in a stall pretty close to 24/7. I’m not even making a judgment about that, just saying that a horse kept in a stall will likely have pent up energy that maybe could be interpreted as having a deep yearning to enter a race

No one on this thread ever said that there anything wrong with racing a horse. My point was just simply that you are racing for your own enjoyment or livelihood, not for the good of the horse. Nothing more, nothing less.

Ericalynn, I commend you or anyone for trying to do some thing…I am not comfortable with sweeping problems under the rug. I think awareness is the first step but of course the issue of what to do with the huge amount of racehorses who can no longer race and who are not sound or are unrideable for whatever reason, is a huge and sad problem. In this case, it sure would have been nice for Juddmonte to take him back.[/QUOTE]

So it is terrible that this horse died on the track. I 100% agree that is a terrible end for any horse, former champion or not.

But some people need to get their facts straight, and separate them from their agenda. Yes, some horses at the track spend a fair amount of time in a stall. However, if you’re assuming because you see them at the track they never leave the track…well, you’re wrong. Plenty of trainers have a stable at the track and a farm and shuttle horses around.

I don’t know Angelico at all but I gotta be honest, y’all want to paint him as being “defensive” by stating something that doesn’t fit your idea of a racehorse’s lifestyle.

You are also flat wrong, and I venture to guess a bit hypocritical, if you do not think some racehorses (GASP) enjoy their work. Everyone posting here surely does something with a horse they feel that horse enjoys. I don’t understand why you feel that if your horse enjoys trailriding/hunting/jumping, etc, why a horse can’t enjoy racing.

I think people think if someone involved in racing tries to explain that some (a lot of) things are not as the general public sees them, they are immediately accused of trying to “sweep the bad under the rug.” Thing is, people involved in racing know what tragic things are going on. Some don’t care. Some care a LOT.
Thing is, in any horsey-world, there are good horsepeople and there are bad ones. People would like to condemn racing harder than other sports, though. I think the difference is, since people stand to make money at racing, it is assumed everyone is squeezing every last dollar out of everything because SOME people are, in fact, doing that.

But those of us who aren’t doing that are also not ignoring the problem by informing someone that their perception is incorrect in spots.

[mintano]

[QUOTE=saratoga;7090022]
Um, there is none to very little turnout available at any track I’ve ever been to, unless you maybe count something like a round pen, which is even rare, so if a horse is at a track its a safe assumption it is in a stall pretty close to 24/7. I’m not even making a judgment about that, just saying that a horse kept in a stall will likely have pent up energy that maybe could be interpreted as having a deep yearning to enter a race

No one on this thread ever said that there anything wrong with racing a horse. My point was just simply that you are racing for your own enjoyment or livelihood, not for the good of the horse. Nothing more, nothing less.

Ericalynn, I commend you or anyone for trying to do some thing…I am not comfortable with sweeping problems under the rug. I think awareness is the first step but of course the issue of what to do with the huge amount of racehorses who can no longer race and who are not sound or are unrideable for whatever reason, is a huge and sad problem. In this case, it sure would have been nice for Juddmonte to take him back.[/QUOTE]

Umm, most competitive show horses are kept in stalls pretty much 24/7. Pot. Kettle. Black.

[Slewdledo]

[QUOTE=VaqueroToro;7089501]
Are necropsies routine for cases like this where the horse breaks down and has to be euthed on the track? Or is it only if the particular state’s commission demands it?[/QUOTE]

In at least WA and CA, every horse that dies at the track goes to UC Davis for necropsy. Every horse that dies, no matter the reason/cause.

FWIW, our best horse has only been shipping in to the track to work, stays to run the following weekend and then back to the farm. He’s at 5-3-1-1 on the year. Works for him.

[saratoga]

[QUOTE=mintano;7090177]
Umm, most competitive show horses are kept in stalls pretty much 24/7. Pot. Kettle. Black.[/QUOTE]

I don’t know who the pot or the kettle is…I am not associated with the “competitive show horse world”. I keep my 3 horses at home and I do / have done a bit of everything- endurance, CTR, eventing, jumpers, dressage and yes, I have worked at the track before, as a groom and did a bit of ponying.

[Angelico]

[QUOTE=saratoga;7090022]
Um, there is none to very little turnout available at any track I’ve ever been to, unless you maybe count something like a round pen, which is even rare, so if a horse is at a track its a safe assumption it is in a stall pretty close to 24/7. I’m not even making a judgment about that, just saying that a horse kept in a stall will likely have pent up energy that maybe could be interpreted as having a deep yearning to enter a race

No one on this thread ever said that there anything wrong with racing a horse. My point was just simply that you are racing for your own enjoyment or livelihood, not for the good of the horse. Nothing more, nothing less.

Ericalynn, I commend you or anyone for trying to do some thing…I am not comfortable with sweeping problems under the rug. I think awareness is the first step but of course the issue of what to do with the huge amount of racehorses who can no longer race and who are not sound or are unrideable for whatever reason, is a huge and sad problem. In this case, it sure would have been nice for Juddmonte to take him back.[/QUOTE]

I run off the farm, as brightsky said. I have farm not too far from the track and unless they don’t haul in well, I keep them home. It is MUCH quieter, more laid back, and honestly, my facilities are better. I’m lucky to have a sand track with phenomenal footing, and my favorite part, two hundred acres of trails. I’m not an unusual case, out here, half of the trainers haul in, and do just fine.

Yes I am racing for my own livelihood, but if these horses were not happy in what they do, I’d be out of a job. I don’t have any majikal misconceptions, I’ve just been around long enough to know when to keep going on them and when to let them rest or retire. You don’t win multiple races without a little heart.

[Jeito]

From The Daily Racing Form:

http://www.drf.com/news/evangeline-downs-monzantes-death-leads-investigation

I have a question for those who protest that they are not being defensive, that all race horses love their job, etc. Are you saying that what happened to this horse - not breaking down, but his trajectory from a stakes winner to a $4000 claiming race - is TYPICAL of the horse industry and not an anomaly? Do Kentucky Derby winners also end up in $4000 claiming races? (I already my answer. I want to know yours.)

No one is calling for the end of racing. Some people are calling for racing to clean up its act. Are you saying it should stay just the way it is because everything is just perfect? Most people aren’t stupid. Most people have a radar for BS.

[Jeito]

From The Daily Racing Form:

http://www.drf.com/news/evangeline-downs-monzantes-death-leads-investigation

I have a question for those who protest that they are not being defensive, that all race horses love their job, etc. Are you saying that what happened to this horse - not breaking down, but his trajectory from a stakes winner to a $4000 claiming race - is TYPICAL of the racing industry and not an anomaly?

No one is calling for the end of racing. Some people are calling for racing to clean up its act. Are you saying it should stay just the way it is because everything is just perfect?

[QUOTE=Angelico;7090306]
Yes I am racing for my own livelihood, but if these horses were not happy in what they do, I’d be out of a job. I don’t have any majikal misconceptions, I’ve just been around long enough to know when to keep going on them and when to let them rest or retire. You don’t win multiple races without a little heart.[/QUOTE]

Really? Do you also think horses only win races for kind-hearted trainers?

[kcmel]

Here is Steve Haskin’s blog that was up for a short time on the Blood-Horse before being taken down.

"Monzante’s Death a Disgrace
22 Jul 2013 11:52 AM Leave a Comment

0

This blog will be short and not so sweet. Racing can provide wonderful stories, such as last week’s tale of Omaha and Morton Porter, and then can come right back and kick you in the head with a story like that of Monzante’s tragic demise.

That a horse like this should wind up where he did is disgraceful, and there is plenty of blame to go around. Winner of the grade I Eddie Read, second in the grade I Charlie Whittingham, and third in the grade III Strub Stakes, the son of Maria’s Mon has passed through some top-class barns, such as Juddmonte, Steve Asmussen, Dale Romans, and Mike Mitchell. In his day he swam with some pretty big fishes before plunging to the depths, where he wound up with the bottom feeders as a 9-year-old.

Why was this allowed to happen? Any of his owners could have done their best to keep tabs of a horse who was so good to them and not allow him to deteriorate into what he would become and where he would wind up. But no one can be forced to monitor the whereabouts of their horses after they move on. A more conscious effort, however, would be a major step forward.

Monzante eventually wound up in the barn of Evangeline Downs owner/trainer Jackie Thacker, who had claimed him for $10,000. Thacker moved him up to $20,000 before dropping him back down to $10,000. After winning for $12,500, his form began to deteriorate. Instead of retiring the horse and trying to find a good home for him, especially one with his accomplishments, Thacker brought him back eight months later and put him in a $4,000 claiming race Evangeline without a listed work in almost two months. The comment on Equineline was a brief as it could get: “Stopped, euthanized.”

So, to repeat, how was this allowed to happen? How does someone who calls himself an owner/trainer allow this to happen, especially in such sensitive times for racing, which has been under microscopic scrutiny from animal rights groups and animal lovers in general? We’ve all seen what public pressure can do to a TV series like “Luck.” The last thing we want to hear is the usual empty comment in these cases, “He still loved to race.” The fact is, Monzante either did not love to race anymore or he was too sore at his age to endure it.

How does racing defend itself against the accusations that are sure to follow? How many so-called horsemen are out there with a license to claim horses who have no regard for their safety and well being? Any horse, especially one who has given as much as Monzante, deserves a better and more humane fate.

Racing has taken some measures to prevent this from happening, but the people who own and train horses need to be more responsible, and their actions have to be monitored more closely. Incidents like this should send up warning flares, and the people to whom these horse are entrusted need to be more accountable for their actions.

No one can expect Juddmonte, Asmussen, Romans, and Mitchell to keep track of all the horses they own or train, but it is up to individuals to see disasters like this unfolding and bring them to the awareness of the racetrack and the public before they become another black eye to racing, as this incident has become. And for all the so-called horsemen who are so careless with their horses’ lives, they must be required to provide answers before they are allowed to claim horses in the future.

The bottom line is that racing can be a beautiful sport – the most beautiful sport of all. But it can also be an ugly sport. Beyond the world of exotic betting and simulcasting and high-tech websites is the Thoroughbred, without whom all else is meaningless.

[Pronzini]

I like Steve and he is usually pretty measured but this isn’t. The horse didn’t win a stakes for Asmussen or Romans so I don’t why he pulled them into this unless he is seriously expecting them to be a safety net for every horse that ever passed through their barn which he says in the article he’s not. I certainly don’t speak for Mitchell but a man with a brain tumor might have other things on his mind than a horse he trained 5 years ago. I know he’s still an active trainer but he’s also a very sick man. So that leaves Juddmonte and the owners when he won the Eddie Read. Maybe they have a moral obligation- I know I would feel that I did - but how does racing a continent away realistically enforce that? To put it more bluntly, does everyone reading this know where horses they formerly owned are right now and are they prepared to take them back at a moments notice? Just saying " well they are rich and they can" begs the question and also puts a condition on the rule.

[twelvebelles]

I don’t really see anything wrong with Haskin’s article, but obviously someone at the Bloodhorse didn’t want to offend their friends in high places. The truth is, Monzante did pass through the hands of big names making good money, who chose to look the other way when he stopped performing for them. Any one of them could have let him retire, but instead they chose to discard him by dropping him down the rungs. The disregard for this old boy’s life is sad.

[Drvmb1ggl3]

[QUOTE=twelvebelles;7090394]
The truth is, Monzante did pass through the hands of big names making good money, who chose to look the other way when he stopped performing for them. Any one of them could have let him retire, but instead they chose to discard him by dropping him down the rungs. The disregard for this old boy’s life is sad.[/QUOTE]

Can you break this down for us please, owner by owner? State what the horse achieved with each owner and when/why he was dropped, and please state the reason as to why each particular owner, at that point in time, should have let the horse retire.
Let’s start with Juddmonte, why should they have retired the horse?

[brightskyfarm]

[QUOTE=Drvmb1ggl3;7090417]
Can you break this down for us please, owner by owner? State what the horse achieved with each owner and when/why he was dropped, and please state the reason as to why each particular owner, at that point in time, should have let the horse retire.
Let’s start with Juddmonte, why should they have retired the horse?[/QUOTE]

This looks like his timeline> as per the original Paulick report.

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/ray-s-paddock/monzante-former-eddie-read-winner-breaks-down-in-claiming-race/

heres his race record>
http://www.equibase.com/profiles/Results.cfm?type=Horse&refno=7177910&registry=T

It was the Manoogians and Anastasi owners who changed trainers and continued to lower his claim price until Steve Asmussen claimed him for his Texas owner.
He was running well, passing vet checks, test barn exams (2-wins in 2012),
there didnt seem to be any glaring reason to consider retirement.

Lots of top show jumpers spend their elder years packing kids through lessons, lots of top hunters spend their elder years packing re-riders through the hunt fields.. and many elder horses spend their teens and twenties being the family trail horse -- as we ALL AGE, we find our abilities diminish, yet many still find ways to participate -- I know a top endurance rider who has aged into bad knees who now only rides competitive trail -- happily and thrilled shes even still riding!
   To be useful is no shame, to keep a horse in training and fit is still doing the right thing -- 
  to say a demise is *someones fault* is absurd.
  Again, I say ... no one knows, ever, that these things will happen and one cant live in fear of things going wrong.

[Jeito]

Steve Haskin’s blog is back up on-line:

http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/horse-racing-steve-haskin/archive/2013/07/23/Monzante_1920_s-Death-a-Disgrace.aspx

It’s nice to see that (as usual) a handful of posters on COTH do not represent the views of the entire racing world

[Laurierace]

I do think what happened to this horse was a shame but I think there are some blurry lines being drawn here. To me, one horse’s life is not more valuable than another regardless of breeding or earnings. It is a trainer’s job to do what is best for each of them. To me there is no difference between running a sound 13 year old in a $4000 claimer and running a sound 4 year old in a $4000 claimer. You run the horse where they can be competitive. The obvious question is was the horse actually sound, that I have no way of knowing and hope they can get to the bottom of it.

[quietann]

@brightskyfarm;7090009

Should I mention the horses that die in eventing (Teddy)-- the nearly 40 riders in 10yrs that have died? (even more maimed for life)

Minor correction: Teddy did not die while eventing. He died while on a hack. Something scared him, he dumped his rider, and injured himself badly enough that he had to be put down.

Anyway… interesting discussion. I don’t have a particular position on Monzante, though the circumstances make me go hmmm.

[Pronzini]

[QUOTE=Discobold;7090486]
Steve Haskin’s blog is back up on-line:

http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/horse-racing-steve-haskin/archive/2013/07/23/Monzante_1920_s-Death-a-Disgrace.aspx

It’s nice to see that (as usual) a handful of posters on COTH do not represent the views of the entire racing world :)[/QUOTE]

I think it is fair to say that Haskin represents a certain segment of the racing world. He’s never owned, never trained, never bred or sold horses, never acted as a steward or an official. He’s a popularizer who blogs about famous horses and quirky people and writes about the big days for a wide audience. Nothing wrong with that and I enjoy his stuff but sometimes I think he hankers for a past than never really was and glosses over a lot. For every Gashouse Gang, there was a Grey Lag and a Black Gold. Monzante’s story is not a new one.

[Drvmb1ggl3]

[QUOTE=brightskyfarm;7090481]
This looks like his timeline> as per the original Paulick report.

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/ray-s-paddock/monzante-former-eddie-read-winner-breaks-down-in-claiming-race/

heres his race record>
http://www.equibase.com/profiles/Results.cfm?type=Horse&refno=7177910&registry=T

It was the Manoogians and Anastasi owners who changed trainers and continued to lower his claim price until Steve Asmussen claimed him for his Texas owner.
He was running well, passing vet checks, test barn exams (2-wins in 2012),
there didnt seem to be any glaring reason to consider retirement.

Lots of top show jumpers spend their elder years packing kids through lessons, lots of top hunters spend their elder years packing re-riders through the hunt fields.. and many elder horses spend their teens and twenties being the family trail horse -- as we ALL AGE, we find our abilities diminish, yet many still find ways to participate -- I know a top endurance rider who has aged into bad knees who now only rides competitive trail -- happily and thrilled shes even still riding!
   To be useful is no shame, to keep a horse in training and fit is still doing the right thing -- 
  [B]to say a demise is *someones fault* is absurd.[/B]
  Again, I say ... no one knows, ever, that these things will happen and one cant live in fear of things going wrong.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. To say every one of his owners along the way “discarded” him instead of retiring the horse is beyond dumb.
He was a competitive racehorse winning a $32k race up until last year.
Yes, the last guy, Thacker, might have a thing or two to answer for. But we don’t know any of the details other than the horse hadn’t raced in 9 months and hadn’t worked in 60 days and that Thacker was cited for cruelty almost 25 years ago.

Blaming Judmonte, the Manoogsians, Romans, Assmusen etc etc is offensive.

[CVPeg]

Bottom line is, the horse should be known about in detail, and run accordingly - not kept afloat for individual proof of ability to win or rehabilitate, or hold on to a dream they can’t do appropriately - and that’s hard.

And our reviewing past performances never really provides on-lookers in-depth knowledge of what is/was really going on with a horse - just info more or less to make a guesstimate. But it sure makes everyone an expert…

The trainers, trainer/owners should know the horse’s issues day in and day out, and pay attention to them. Not only do the best they can in caring for them and treating them. Only a true horseman knows to avoid wishful thinking. Yes, Thoroughbreds really do love their job and it’s what they were bred to do. But it’s up to those whose care they are in to know whether or not they should stop.

Very glad to see Haskin’s blog back up.

[CVPeg]

[QUOTE=Pronzini;7090582]
I think it is fair to say that Haskin represents a certain segment of the racing world. He’s never owned, never trained, never bred or sold horses, never acted as a steward or an official. He’s a popularizer who blogs about famous horses and quirky people and writes about the big days for a wide audience. Nothing wrong with that and I enjoy his stuff but sometimes I think he hankers for a past than never really was and glosses over a lot. For every Gashouse Gang, there was a Grey Lag and a Black Gold. Monzante’s story is not a new one.[/QUOTE]

Well, there are certainly owners who know a lot less about racing than Steve Haskin. But they can say “I own a racehorse.”

[Pronzini]

[QUOTE=CVPeg;7090598]
Well, there are certainly owners who know a lot less about racing than Steve Haskin. But they can say “I own a racehorse.”[/QUOTE]

Depends on what you mean by “racing”…I would submit that paying for a racehorse, making day to day decisions (or even delegating and living with the consequences) gives even the goofiest owner a particular insight into the process that it’s hard to get another way.

Kind of like the difference between football and fantasy football although there are plenty of fans/ sportswriters who are very knowledgeable. At the end of the day, writing about things and doing things are, well…different things.