More talk about air- vests

[Snugglerug]

Sorry–I know they’ve been debated to death here. But I couldn’t find anything addressing my specific question.

I wear my CO Kontakt 5 whenever I’m going xc–and I’m just getting up to BN so it’s not like I’m doing crazy stuff. I wear my helmet every single ride. Plus I have a very calm, willing horse who’s BTDT and is the brains of our little operation. So I never wanted to cough up the dough for an airvest, plus I know there is debate about whether they’re really useful or not. However, I have some friends who swear by them. And I hit the ground yesterday, and I hurt today. :yes: And I wasn’t even jumping anything. It was a sneak attack by a bird that caused my normally unspooky horse to teleport and reassemble 3 feet to my right.

And now it occurs to me that a vest would be less than a hospital bill . . . .so . . . .

IF I were to decide to go there . . . . Hit Air or Point 2? Anything about the Point 2 that makes it worth the extra money?

On the other hand, my sweet boy waited quietly right by my side after the, ahem, incident, never took a step away. He might have felt differently if that thing had exploded. Or not.

[deltawave]

By all (or most) accounts they can make for softer landings. As to preventing actual injuries that would mandate a trip to the hospital, that’s still very much an unknown.

If you have weighed the pros and cons and elected to buy one, I’d go with the one you find most comfortable and easy to use. Try on both, and ask that they both be inflated so you can see what it feels like. I would never buy one without this sort of “test inflation”.

[Kementari]

Why not just wear your CO? (That’s not meant to sound snarky, it just seems more logical to me to wear what you’ve already got instead of spending 100s on something else, especially something unproven!)

[Snugglerug]

That’s a great idea Deltawave. I’m in MI too, over by Ann Arbor. Anywhere in the state where testing them side-by-side is a possibility? I believe our local tack store only carries one. What are the odds both vendors will be at Richland Park? I won’t be riding there but I’m kind of looking for an excuse to go watch.

[Snugglerug]

No worries Kementari, no offense taken. That’s actually been my thought thus far. I’m just a bit more owie than I thought I’d be today.

[RAyers]

I think you need to evaluate what you think a vest is supposed to do. The air vests marketers created a false assumption of injury prevention and the idea one can fall with no repercussions.

Falling is part of riding, regardless of discipline. Yes, we get hurt. We get dings and dents and bruises. That is just what happens. NO vest, air or otherwise, can prevent that. If a person tells you otherwise you know they are lying, selling or have never actually fallen. Learning how to fall or eject from a horse as well as developing reflexes to fall is part of learning to ride and will go farther to preventing injury than any vest.

There still is no testing data that indicates an airvest is more effective than a standard vest, and I will reiterate, if it fails when you need it, then it is at best the same as no vest and at worst you are locked to a moving horse.

As kementari said, you have a vest already, but if you want to spend money flip a coin to choose what airvest.

[Countrywood]

Lectures about falling aside, I have read enough posts over the last few yeas from people that an airbag vest at least prevents the worst of an ouch from a hard fall and might prevent broken bones…stands to reason as it is an air bag after all and they have been proven in car crashes.

As to why I have not bought one…price, plus I want to make sure I will really wear it if I get it. (I ride trails and dressage jumping for me is a cross rail). I have a tipperary vest but for here in S florida it is too hot, even thought it is advertised as the lightest/out there. The hard vests I found so heavy and stiff I would never be able to wear them here.

[Snugglerug]

RAyers, great point about being attached when you don’t want to be. Do you know if there are instances of that happening? Truthfully, the areas where I feel beat up are the areas my vest did NOT cover. So I think the vest I have did its job.

Do the air vests actually create any more coverage areas? Specifically, I’m sore just around the tailbone area, where I landed, but also managed to strain some muscles on the right side of my neck. (That’s a self-diagnosis, so take it for what it’s worth.)

RE: the tailbone–I think my vest fits properly, but the way I fell kind of in a C shape left my tailbone more exposed that it would have been if I’d hit flat. The neck I’m not sure about–must have overextended at some point–it didn’t even hurt until today.

Would the airbags have extended enough or any beyond a traditional vest to make any difference?

[RAyers]

Countrywood, you express the same misunderstanding of airvests that the manufacturers have exploited. There has been HUGE amounts invested in developing automotive airbags that has been ignored in personal air base protective products (e.g. the use of nitrogen in a porous structure to begin to DEFLATE the bag BEFORE the person hits to prevent injury; opposite of what is done in these airvests). While you are free to follow peoples opinions, do not mistake those for testing and research done in other areas.

Snugglerug, yes, there are 4 instances of which I am personally aware and according to one marketer (former exclusive licensee) there have been more both in the US and the EU.

[Snugglerug]

And yeah, RAyers, while I appreciate your expertise, I do realized people fall off horses and they do get hurt. I knew that even before you told me. I’ve accepted that risk. People get hurt driving cars too–so mine have airbags and anti-lock brakes and all that jazz. I’m also aware that the first generation of auto airbags killed a lot of people–they weren’t perfected yet. And I realize that an airvest, or any vest, doesn’t completely protect from all injury anymore than a helmet does. I’m just interested in doing what I can to make it safer, and evaluating the options.

[Snugglerug]

[QUOTE=RAyers;7067506]

Snugglerug, yes, there are 4 instances of which I am personally aware and according to one marketer (former exclusive licensee) there have been more both in the US and the EU.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for that bit of information. That’s helpful to know.

[SevenDogs]

@Countrywood;7067490

Lectures about falling aside, I have read enough posts over the last few yeas from people that an airbag vest at least prevents the worst of an ouch from a hard fall.

Maybe, but then again, how would you know what the “ouch” would have been without the air vest? Just seems like people make this remark off the cuff a lot.

I think air vests could provide some “Cush” factor in some simple falls (that you aren’t going to be seriously hurt by anyway), but the danger of being tethered to a 1200 lb animal that may fail to release isn’t worth it.

[ake987]

I have a Hit Air and I like it. I don’t fall off when wearing it, because I don’t want to spend the money on CO2.

For real though - it’s only there to help soften a fall, I don’t count on it for extra, legitimate protection. I do find it to be light and I don’t notice it on top of my crash vest. I have been around for many falls, as well as “accidental deployments” (heh), and I’ve yet to see a horse lose it over the sound. It’s really not bad.

It might have helped your fall, hard to say. The bottom pops out to cover your tailbone, and the neck is cradled as well… so, could it have helped? It’s possible. Is it worth ~$500 based on anecdotes? Up to you! Good luck

[CindyCRNA]

I am looking at Hit Air to go over my Tipperary. I, like you, am BN but my mare is 17.2 and it’s a long way down! I also like the neck roll and sacral roll that inflates on the Hit Air. I have seen it also appear to help when when an eventer had his horse land square on top of him after rolling over the top of a jump. I would think it could only help.

[yellowbritches]

I’ve fallen in my Point Two three times. None of the falls were terribly dramatic, but in two of them they definitely saved me on my Advil bill.

The first one I fell into the middle of a big oxer on xc. I hit the back rail (the cervical collar kept me from whip lashing harder. You can see it in the video of the fall). Normally, that type of fall would have had me hobbling around for the better part of the week. I had a titch of a sore neck for about 12 hours.

The second one I got rocketed out of the tack when my horse chested a fence pretty hard. I landed in water, so I don’t know how much that helped me from being less sore and painful. I had some road rash from where my horse grazed me with a foot, but that was on my arm. Didn’t hurt one bit, except my pride.

Third fall was one of the most painful falls I’ve had in a long time. But I fell on the flat at a dead gallop. It was also one of those falls where you TRY not to fall. I hit the ground so, so hard. I actually cracked my helmet and gave myself a good bell ringing. The vest did jack squat for that fall.

I’ve never touch wood been in a serious fall with it. Hope to never have one. I can say in your AVERAGE fall, it may save you from some aches and pains. I don’t think any of the three falls I had were going to result in even a trip to urgent care, let alone the ER (ok. Admittedly, I probably should have gone and head my head checked out, but that had nothing to do with the vest). So, I really don’t know if they are REALLY worth the expense. Most of our falls are going to be the typical “Ouch. I’m stiff” kinda falls. Advil and beer are cheaper.

I feel they probably aren’t as fantabulous as they are marketed to be, but I also feel that they probably aren’t as bad as they are often made out to be. I would truly love to see some real testing. I wear one because it does offer me some level of comfort…and because mine was free. I wouldn’t be able to afford the expense otherwise.

[Snugglerug]

Yellowbritches, I hear you. Advil helps, but a good stiff drink helps more

There’s an argument to be made, too, for making the minor falls as minor as possible.

[asterix]

If you get one, I would definitely try and see if you can get an inflation test. The Hit Air goes out, the Point Two in. I have a friend who really had the wind knocked out of her by her Point Two…

[Winding_Down]

I think the OP was asking about which vest to purchase and not whether she should purchase one at all. OP, I have found that there are a lot of naysayers on this forum when it comes to air vests. This is the exception as I’ve not met people outside of this forum who discouraged using an air vest.

I have the Hit Air Vest and I got it because it was on sale and it was cheaper than the Point Two. Mine is simple cheapest basic black. I’ve had one fall and it was wonderful to feel that cushion rise up between my back and the hard ground. Plus there is a collar that protects the neck.

Someone mentioned that the Point Two may be restrictive when it deploys. It if its not too tight, that shouldn’t be the case.

I’d suggest finding the best deal online or locally for the vest. But buy canisters locally because there’s a big charge for shipping the hazardous material.

[wildlifer]

As far as increased coverage, not in a meaningful way.

Edited for brevity and translated: Oooga boooga, science!!! There are far more cons than pros.

I think you’ve already got all the useful safety equipment we currently have available.

Anyway, maybe we should try and experiment and just start a blank thread titled “air vest” and then time how long it takes for someone to go “No, don’t give those skeezy marketers money!” and someone else to go, “No, my friend swears it’s awesome!” Heh.

[Winding_Down]

^^^ maybe you should start another thread on air vests. Like i said before, OP is not asking for opinions on the merits of air vests. She is asking about whether she should purchase the Hit Air or the Point Two.

Otherwise, perhaps some of us need to take a few more courses in Physics, LOL.

:lol: