[QUOTE=OneGrayPony;7010052]
Post hand and active hand? What is this nomenclature? :-)[/QUOTE]
When you use a bosal, you use two reins always.
When you ride two handed, one is the working hand (one that moves) and the other is the post hand (one that supports).
One hand stays in place to make the sure bosal doesn’t twist (which will happen to some degree if you only use one rein). Post hand.
You then bump the rein with the working hand, the one that moves.
[QUOTE=Pocket Pony;7010327]
It IS hard work. It is the hardest work I have ever done in a saddle and can be exhausting! Whew![/QUOTE]
Dressage shouldn’t be exhausting for the rider physically IMHO if the work is being done from the perspective of balance. The goal should be to get the horse closer to carrying itself, not a weight lifting session where the rider is the horse’s 5th leg.
At the end of a half-hour lesson I can head out on a trail ride with no issues, because I haven’t been supporting my horse’s head that whole time like some do. My horse might be a dripping pile of fuzzy goo, but I’m not 
Which is how contact was described to me once - as a 5th leg!!!:eek:
WRT the post hand and active hand - is it post = outside / active = inside as it is described in dressage? Or just “whatever rein is active the other is steady”?
[QUOTE=Pocket Pony;7010467]
Which is how contact was described to me once - as a 5th leg!!!:eek:
WRT the post hand and active hand - is it post = outside / active = inside as it is described in dressage? Or just “whatever rein is active the other is steady”?[/QUOTE]
I think that must be a regional thing, because here generally you use both hands so you can guide the green horse better, but then go to one hand, while still handling the reins separated in that one hand, because you may be busy with the other hand, like handling the rope.
Remember you are riding with your whole body for aids, the bosal is just for little discrete bumps.
If you have to manhandle a horse with a bosal, your horse may start running thru the hackamore, giving up listening to it.
I will add, our grass rope hackamores and it’s use came to these regions courtesy of Pine Johnson, that was very good training horses, trying many different ways and teaching many riders.
How well does that kind of training work?
We can have colts riding in a confined space after some 30 rides bridleless, with a string around their neck, because that is a progression of how they have learned self carriage and listening to the rider.
We did just that regularly, as a gauge to see how far along colts were, would take the hackamore off and ride around with the string only for a few minutes.
That would tell you so much and how to proceed.
So can you recommend a couple sources for bosals?
I am renting Buck’s 2nd video in the “making a bridle horse” series. The intro was interesting information on the hackamore and how to tie the mecate to the bosal. I had to stop it because dinner guests were coming over but so far he hasn’t said anything about the post hand and the active hand. Are there differing theories on this?
[QUOTE=Pocket Pony;7010467]
Which is how contact was described to me once - as a 5th leg!!!:eek:[/QUOTE]
Think of it dispassionately - if there’s a heavy weight in your hands, the horse is doing as much pulling as you are. Doesn’t sound like self carriage to me.
[QUOTE=Pocket Pony;7010467]
WRT the post hand and active hand - is it post = outside / active = inside as it is described in dressage? Or just “whatever rein is active the other is steady”?[/QUOTE]
If you only pull on one bosal rein, especially if your hand is out to the side in an opening rein, that will pull the heel knot over to the side the rein is on. That will in turn tend to pull the horse’s nose out from under his chin (off plumb). That’s asking a horse to flex one way at the base of the neck, and the opposite way at the poll.
So, to answer your question, it depends what you’re defining as the outside rein at any given time. When used single handed, there’s obviously no post hand.
[QUOTE=Bluey;7010642]
I think that must be a regional thing, because here generally you use both hands so you can guide the green horse better, but then go to one hand, while still handling the reins separated in that one hand, because you may be busy with the other hand, like handling the rope.[/QUOTE]
Undoubtedly there are ways ways to use a bosal depending on how you’re taught to do things. Your hackamores are setup with far more lateral bias than the ones I use, for example, so I wouldn’t be surprised that you do things differently.
[QUOTE=Pocket Pony;7011058]
So can you recommend a couple sources for bosals?
I am renting Buck’s 2nd video in the “making a bridle horse” series. The intro was interesting information on the hackamore and how to tie the mecate to the bosal. I had to stop it because dinner guests were coming over but so far he hasn’t said anything about the post hand and the active hand. Are there differing theories on this?[/QUOTE]
The ones I have are from:
http://www.billblackbraiding.com/index.html
http://shop.vaquerohorseman.com/
I can’t remember if that vid speaks of the concept, but if you rent any of Mike Bridges or Richard Caldwell’s, they will.
Buck doesn’t spend a bunch of time in the hackamore alone, or go through multiple sizes. When I asked him at the clinic, he says his general timeframe is 1 1/2 yrs snaffle, 2-3 mos hackamore, the on to the two-rein. He emphasizes the snaffle much more.
I JUST got my new bosal in the mail.
It was made by retired Boise heart surgeon Dr. Kirby Orme. It is obvious that Dr. Orme is good with his hands! His ‘maker’s mark’ is a walking heart brand.
I first found a 1/2 inch diameter bosal made by Dr. Orme. I spent some Christmas money to buy it- I hadn’t yet found a 5/8 bosal to my liking. My TB gelding has pretty sensitive skin, so I need a higher strand count rawhide, or a smoother kangaroo or latigo bosal than the typical 8-strand basic rawhide bosal. Now, that basic bosal will work for a LOT of horses…I have one. But it is coarse against my TB’s face, so it makes the skin tender.
Tenderizing the horse’s face is the LAST thing you want to do with a bosal.
In fact, some folks want a horse really backed off, reacting strongly to a bosal signal out of the avoidance of pain, and that is what a metal core bosal is for- soring the horse’s face.
If you intend to get the horse working off a feel, you have to have a bosal that fits the horse’s face well. That means, really, that you would probably not be using the same bosal on a cob-sized-face horse as you would a horse with a big, handsome warmblood face.
Anyway, I found that gorgeous 1/2 inch bosal and it fits my TB’s face beautifully.
I then asked Buck, if I should just use that to start, since it fit him so well.
The answer given to me was, not unless you are Ray Hunt. Even Buck starts with a larger diameter, ‘stronger’ bosal.
So, I ordered a 5/8" bosal from the same maker, and it came the other day.
I’m making a bosal hanger for it from a (new/replacement) latigo saddle string. I’ll post a picture of my TB wearing it, in a few days- right now he’s sore, swollen and stiff from a rhino vaccine reaction.
Here’s the fellow who had the Kirby Orme bosal on display- he has a lot of neat stuff including spade bits, romal reins, horsehair and mohair mecates, from several good makers:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Greg-Gomersall-Saddlery/108683979158876
Greg Gomersall makes saddles, too. I like visiting his facebook page; as is typical of handmade buckaroo gear, he might have exactly what you want or he might not at the moment- he has what the maker recently made!
Wow, this stuff is so expensive! Sure shows the difference between hand-made craftwork and tack made overseas in mass-production!
If you keep your eyes open, you might find some Mexican/Central American or South American braiding- there are some fabulous gaucho braiders out there, and their work tends to be a lot less expensive than good American work.
I found some romal reins that were very fine/high strand count, well done, made in Peru. The price was about half of what American work cost. As a bonus, the ‘slapper’ on the end of the romal was floral tooled in a Peruvian pattern I’ve never seen before-it’s definitely floral, but nothing like anything ‘floral tooled’ around hereabouts- neato.
When you order a bosal, do you send any measurements for nose size? I ask because my mustang has a big head and moose nose…are bosals pretty much one size?
Also, why are the knots - or, what do you call the place on the noseband where the hangers fit - so far forward? Why don’t they set them back 1/2" or so so that the hangers don’t sit so close to the eyes?
I got a working bosal from Steve Guitron that was very reasonably priced, less than $100 IIRC. And it’s very functional. Not as smooth as the higher-count strand ones, not fancy, but has good body, shapes well, and isn’t horribly stiff.
Fillabeana gets the prize for putting words to the concept of contact with feel. That (on the previous page) was lovely, thank you.
If you think you might be ready to ride with a bosal, and think you might be ready with your skills, then try it. You’ll find out pretty quickly if you need to go back to the snaffle. Nice to have some good guidance, though–it IS different than riding with a bit. They say that you shouldn’t go back and forth, but the first time you experiment with the transition you certainly aren’t in the place of making your ultimate bridle horse and risking his education ;). It’s a learning experience. Patience and being totally honest with yourself will make it possible to fix any little mistakes you make.
[QUOTE=Fillabeana;7017068]
If you keep your eyes open, you might find some Mexican/Central American or South American braiding- there are some fabulous gaucho braiders out there, and their work tends to be a lot less expensive than good American work.
I found some romal reins that were very fine/high strand count, well done, made in Peru. The price was about half of what American work cost. As a bonus, the ‘slapper’ on the end of the romal was floral tooled in a Peruvian pattern I’ve never seen before-it’s definitely floral, but nothing like anything ‘floral tooled’ around hereabouts- neato.[/QUOTE]
Definitely second the motion. Mexican made gear factory generally doesn’t have a great reputation, but there are some really great craftspeople down there as well. My reins and romal were done there, and are exceptionally well made…nothing like the tack store stuff, but quite a bit cheaper than most Americanor Canadian gear. I looked around at a lot of options before buying those.
I do like to support craftspeople at the minimum, rather than factories. My leather supply place deals with the braiders there directly.
[QUOTE=Pocket Pony;7017314]
When you order a bosal, do you send any measurements for nose size? I ask because my mustang has a big head and moose nose…are bosals pretty much one size?[/QUOTE]
Not one size, since all horses are built differently. There are two main measurements, nose length (the thicker braided nosepiece) and inside height. Nose length is measured along the circumference, and I’ve been taught not to go much beyond 7.5-8". To measure the inside height, squeeze the bosal until the width from hanger point to hanger point is (I think) 4", then measure the top to bottom length inside the bosal. My bosals are 11", and bosalitas are 10.75" (less room needed for thinner mecates).
[QUOTE=Pocket Pony;7017314]
Also, why are the knots - or, what do you call the place on the noseband where the hangers fit - so far forward? Why don’t they set them back 1/2" or so so that the hangers don’t sit so close to the eyes?[/QUOTE]
I think you mean to say why aren’t the nose lengths longer to set the hanger point lower? Some people do, but the cost is a much slower dropoff speed for the heel knot (the release is delayed).
The opposite extreme is a bosalita hung from the middle of the nose band, which is really nice for the light bosalitas. http://www.easphotography.com/Tindur/TindurBosalita.jpg
It’s really easy to tie back the hanger if it gets up by the eye, and you don’t lose the dropoff speed.
[QUOTE=monstrpony;7017360]
They say that you shouldn’t go back and forth, but the first time you experiment with the transition you certainly aren’t in the place of making your ultimate bridle horse and risking his education ;). [/QUOTE]
I wouldn’t worry about going back and forth between stages, or bosal weights even. Both Buck and Richard said that the best way to find the holes in one stage is to go onto the next, and I’ve found that to be he case myself too.
[QUOTE=Pocket Pony;7011859]
Wow, this stuff is so expensive! Sure shows the difference between hand-made craftwork and tack made overseas in mass-production![/QUOTE]
Like with saddles, it’s more the mass production than the overseas part. With cheaper braiding there’s lost than can go wrong. Uneven braiding will twist, cheap hides split, and unbeveled edges on strings can make cheap high count braid rough (where even low count beveled strings can be very smooth if done right).
Another clinic report, which I’ll put here because this is where it is most relevant.
Buck has a long list of where he wants his horse in a snaffle, before he goes into a bosal. From his description, it would be pretty much a horse doing 3rd level dressage, maybe Prelim cross country, or 3’6" working hunters/derbies.
Now, other people can, and will, do it differently. But Buck’s goal is to have a horse in the bridle that has as much lateral softness in him as ability to collect longitudinally. Lots of people take the lateral out of their horses when the get him in a bridle.
But Buck wants a horse 'In a soft Feel" (in other words, On the Bit and not behind the vertical or bracing against the reins–no crank or flash needed), walk, trot, canter, leg yield, shoulders in, half pass, haunches in, etc.
He wants counter canter, flying changes started, simple changes rock solid.
He wants a horse ridden outside a lot, and confident to go on a loose rein walk, trot, canter, gallop. He wants to be able to steer accurately with his legs, no reins (so he can guide his horse subtly with no hands when roping).
He wants to have roped/branded calves, and doctored cattle in the pasture. (Meaning, you rope the calf, tie off the rope instead of dally, get off the horse, and give the calf medicine.)
He wants to have worked stock (colts, or cattle in a feedlot, say) with a flag.
He wants the horse really gentle, so he’d not just be rideable by a novice or a kid, but take care and fill in for the kid- to babysit.
And once the horse progresses through the bosal, two-rein, and then into the bridle, he will go back to the snaffle if he ever needs to. If he were to take one of his bridle horses foxhunting (assuming the horse had never gone foxhunting), he’d go back to the snaffle so he didn’t get the horse in the mouth inadvertently. But his point was, his horses have so much lateral softness in them, so well built in, and he continues to ask the horse to bend laterally, so that if he ever goes back to the snaffle the horse is ‘just as he left him’ in the snaffle.
Buck says he rides a horse for at least a year and a half in a snaffle, steady, before he’s ready to put the hackamore on. He might start a colt at two, put 6 or 8 rides on, turn him back out. At three he’ll do a little more, maybe go out in the pasture to move a few cows, but not much more. So he won’t start riding steady until the horse is 4 or 5. So you won’t likely see Buck in a bosal unless the horse is at least 5.
I love those pictures, Fillabeana! I’m so jealous of your cowgirl life!
Sadly I gave up on my dreams of being a cowgirl since the western saddles were a main factor in my hip pain. Traded all of my tack except my bosal and horse hair mecate, since those were a gift.
So you’re in the 1/2" bosal? Did you have any difficulties with your own aids and transitioning? Do you spend some time in the snaffle and then some in the bosal?
Benny Guitron was the hackamore master… and a good teacher too. Here’s his book and video, plus a bosal set made by his cousin Steve Guitron:
https://hobbyhorseinc.com/hackamore-training
The book and video may be available on Amazon as well.
There’s also a Western Horseman magazine article about Benny’s Bits: the Hackamore you might be able to find online.
Good hackamores are, like all great tack, not inexpensive but will last for generations if cared for…
By submitting your email, you agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. You may also receive promotional emails from The Chronicle of the Horse. You can opt out at any time.
For Customers
Company
Terms of Use
