Mounting issues -- diagnostics to identify/rule out pain?

Right. Sometimes, the saddle seems perfectly fine to us (and a fitter), but if the horse clearly says no, we have to listen to the horse. It probably will require trying different saddles, and unless when you get a good one the issue totally disappears never to return, then you are still facing some risk of injury as you experiment with new saddles.

While it sounds like where you mount is also part of the problem, I’d hesitate to stuff her in a more enclosed area to solve the problem. Since she did it once before, I don’t think it’s just the rehab crazies necessarily.

Friend of mine is a trainer who had a horse in training that was high anxiety about standing. On the cross ties. At the block. Anywhere. But also a sweet horse who did not try to be naughty. She’d kind of stuff him into a corner to mount and just get on with it. Until the day he reared and sat/slid down the kickboards because he didn’t have anywhere to go forward and was just as anxious as usual. This incident definitely didn’t help the problem.

I taught him to do the parallel park thing in one session, and he seemed to really get into doing something to use his brain in hand. By the time my friend got on that day, he stood like a rock until she asked him to move. YMMV but I’ve rehabbed several horses including my own in the past few years, and once I got good at teaching it (using my horse for practice), I now teach it to all of them. I think with rehabbing, you often run into saddle issues as they change/get back in shape, you might have tummy issues/ulcers, excess energy causing hyper-alertness, they can be cold backed, etc. The method seems to help them all. For some it’s a huge improvement. For others, you might need to combine it with some other R+ type reinforcement or go through some other groundwork to test their anxiety level first.

Minor thread hijack - curious about the most typical reasons (physical or behavioral) that a horse might park itself out when tacked and/or standing at the mounting block? (Assuming that the horse was never trained to do so and doesn’t do it after riding.). Sore back, ulcers, etc? This random aside reminded me that I tried to search for this topic previously and was surprised not to find anything on it.

My back pain horse would do it frequently when standing around. More often with a rider up. That was his preferred resting stance as we were going through that issue. I’m not sure you’d have a horse do it before riding but not after or at other times.

But I don’t think all back pain would promote that. Kissing spines pain would be made worse by that posture, for example.

Gut pain, foot issues and imbalances could also cause abnormal posture. SI problems that might also manifest as lower back pain could cause it also.

I’m sure you had plenty of other things to think about at the time (!) but I wonder if you happened to notice anything in particular about your horse’s stance, attitude or movement immediately before the bolt?

For example, did she seem spooked or anxious when led up to the block?
Did she lift her head or go hollow when your weight hit the saddle?
Did her weight shift in an unusual way, or did she seem to stagger?
Did the bolt occur immediately on feeling weight, or when asked to move forward?
Was this stuff consistent from occasion to occasion, or did it change?

It’s definitely a tricky problem!

This is the part that makes me think pain: she was perfectly normal, back relaxed, fully parked in a square halt at the mounting block every time. Since she did this to my friend over a year ago, I’ve been very attuned how she seems to be feeling at the mounting block. I also did re-training (using treats, which may not be advised but worked for her up until now) after that first incident with my friend. Since then, she had never taken a step away from the mounting block without being asked because her focus was always on turning to get her treat – until she bolted on me for the first time in August. I can’t rule out that she got spooked that first time she did it to me in August, but I’m confident she has not been spooked or anxious the subsequent two times.

Each time it’s been exactly the same timing: she is normal and relaxed and standing square until one foot goes into the stirrup. This means that I did not make it into the saddle any of the three times – I landed behind twice and she bronc’ed until I came off, and the time I got injured I don’t think I even got a leg over and just fell backwards. In the times I’ve managed to get on since this issue cropped up, she is perfectly behaved at the mounting block – no movement, no back hollowing, no ears pinning, etc – including when I re-mounted right after this last incident of bolting.

Not sure if that explanation helps with any other ideas… My vet and orthopedic specialist are coming to look at her on Monday.

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I think you’re probably right that there’s pain involved somewhere, and I’m glad you’re having some specialists out to investigate that.

For whatever it might be worth, have you tried putting something heavy on her back at the mounting block? I’m thinking along the lines of when one first trains a horse to be mounted, often you’ll just drape yourself or something like a grain bag with some shavings in it over the saddle, just so that the horse will feel some weight on the back and have a chance to get used to it. Given the horse’s reactivity at this point, it’s not a good idea for a person to drape him/herself over the back, but it might be interesting to see if the horse reacts to some other weight draped over her.

I think she meant park, like stand at the mounting block, not park out. :wink:

Just a quick update in case anyone is curious or finds this thread in the future: My vets checked her out early last week and thought there was some muscular pain and stiffness in the neck but nothing overly noteworthy. The vet did chiro and acupuncture and taught me more stretches and massage to continue to do myself. We decided on a methocarbomol + gabapentin trial to try to better determine if we were working with pain or behavioral issues plus a 3x a week short lunging routine (given her still-rehabbing leg). After just a few days on a low dose of gabapentin (still titrating), my horse became much less reactive and much happier looking - for lack of a better word - on the lunge line.

With that knowledge, I decided to send her to the vet hospital for neck x-rays and possible injections, which she got today. She had some enlargement at C5-6 and early arthritic changes at C6-7. We injected both sides of both joints. These do not appear to be major radiographic findings, but this horse is the very opposite of stoic, so I’m hoping we start to make some progress from here.

Thanks for all the ideas – fingers crossed for a good outcome here after 2+ years of chasing diagnoses…

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Hm that is interesting. I knew a neck horse that started bolting once his neck started bothering him, but it is interesting yours has only done it at the block. For the other horse it was random and could happen anytime, or not. After many years of being a horse that would not even think of doing anything like that.

It could take 2-4 weeks or so for you to know if this is the only thing. But maybe less if you keep her on gabapentin in the meantime.

The only thing we really know is that unless there is clear narrowing and compression in the neck, we have no idea how the X-rays actually correlate to pain. In humans, radiologists were given a bunch of images of people with neck problems and asked to rank their level of symptoms. No correlation between the radiologists’ opinions and how the patients had ranked their own symptoms. But hopefully if the changes are mild, it can be well controlled with periodic treatment.

In this case, given how much time off the horse had, I wonder if the couple days of work (which I realize were not in a row) made her just sore or aware enough that on mounting, she tensed in just a way to ping the neck situation.

I think, based on reading a handful of case studies around the web, it just depends on where exxxxxxactly the impingement is. A slight startle to make the head move too quickly just a hair can set one off, others might take being asked for real flexion one direction.