Still in the ground driving stage. Miss Molly seems to be a horse who hates traditional 2piece snaffles. I did just purchase a fat,egg butt french link to try. I also purchased a very low port with copper roller and full cheeks, as well as a low port Kimberwick. I’m going to give these a try today and see if she has a favorite. I may also consider getting either a Glory bit or Mullen mouth.
Not worried about the outside of the bit looking traditional, at least until I decide what she prefers. I think she’s just a horse that doesn’t like the “nutcracker” effect. She also puts her tongue over the bit at times, although that could be because my snaffles are slightly too large for her.
Just wondering when other people training young driving horses like to switch to a solid mouthpiece? And, what about leverage? I know what and when I do this sort of thing with a riding horse but not a driver.
Also, anybody try driving with a Mikmar? I have a short shank Mikmar, which I’ve found to be a favorite with several of my horses. It has a lot of different possible variations, which makes it very versatile. I may consider trying that someday, too, although I would need to get one with a smaller mouthpiece if they even make that.
Do you prefer fixed, solid shanks or hinged? On my riders, I usually choose a hinged shank, at least until I have a horse pretty broke, since it’s easier for me to work laterally.
Not sure if you have ever “read up” on how mouthpieces work in the mouth of horse, why certain types seem to work better than others over time.
Being a pony, I would think she doesn’t have enough room in her mouth for a thick, eggbutt type mouthpiece. Low palate, thick tongue, inexperienced, all can add up to her present “issues” with bits and learning to drive.
Have you actually measured her mouth for width, using a stick, pencil, across her bars and tongue to outside lips? If not, I would start there, in being accurate in purchasing size bits that fit her correctly (for now at least, only 3yrs old). I would also stick my finger in her mouth at the corner of her lips, see if there is much or ANY room in there with her tongue and palate.
Ok, now pick a bit and keep using it with her at least a week, with more than just a couple works in that time. Constant change never lets her “settle” into learning this or that bit. She needs time wearing and using a bit to learn to respond correctly to signals from the reins, which ALL will feel different with various bits. We call them the “magic bits” because when Clinician advises their use, they DO work, often amazingly well at the Clinic and up to a week after. Then equine is back to their old issues, new bit feel is over with!
I am not a fan of copper in a bit, causes an electric reaction in the horse mouth with saliva, which is where the spit comes from. I can get the same spit response by putting salt on his tongue, lots of spit doesn’t mean horse is ACTUALLY using the bit well or correctly! Once I learned about the shock response in the mouth, all my copper mouth bits got hung as decorations, never used again. I apologised to my old horse for that unknowing treatment in years past. Copper could include inlays, rollers, mixed metals with high copper like the gold mouthpieces on some expensive bits and the Glory bits.
Also not a fan of Mikmar bits, at least that one with the flat piece for the mouthpiece. That is a HARSH bit, with those edges digging into the bars when any pull or leverage is applied. Just ugly looking in its parts and nothing I would own to use on a horse, especially a new baby starting out. As above, you will find folks who LOVE the bit, horse goes best in it over all others. It would flip any of my horses over backwards with that bite of mouthpiece when reins were pulled.
This is MY choice, there are MANY copper bits in use, horse is not dead from it, folks say the horse likes those bits or does much better with it. But now that I know the science behind the copper in bits, I don’t use them. My horses go fine with the NeverRust or Stainless metals in their mouthpieces, so I consider their “issues” as a training issue not a bit issue. When working CORRECTLY on the bit, they all have spitty mouths, on both sides of their face, using the bit as a communication device with their Driver. They give and take with the reins, as asked. Does take a while to reach that point.
At three-going-on-four, your descriptions of her training level, I don’t think she may be ready yet for leverage bits, using the curb chain under her chin. Has she ever worn just a bit in her stall to eat with? This is a step we do with everyone, just wear the bit until they are TIRED of it. A ring snaffle, not very thick, smooth, 2 or 3 piece, fitted loosely in her mouth, hung on a headstall she can’t rub off. My bits all have rubber bit guards to prevent lip pinches, whatever kind of ring side the bit has. No cheeks on the bit, half or full. Not EVER supposed to be painful to the equine. No noseband or chin strap needed. Let her wear that for an hour or two daily while eating hay, her small amount of grain, getting drinks. If she is hard to bridle, wrap the mouthpiece with some fruit rolllups for flavor, she WILL OPEN her mouth to help get it on!! They all lick and make the mouth move all over, getting that last bit of fruit. The reason for leaving her bridled, is for HER to practice managing her bit in various situations. I learned to do this from an OLD book, think it is quite beneficial for the animal. She PROBABLY will get her tongue over the bit sometimes, but with loose fit, she SHOULD be able to get it fixed or she WON’T be doing it again, since is not comfortable. Don’t fix it for her. It is fixed when bridle comes off if she doesn’t get it fixed. You might drop the bit a hole for the next wearing, to insure her enough room to get tongue back under. Bit wearing goes about 2 weeks here, once a day for an hour or two. Keep an eye on the lip corners for cracking, give her some time to heal if that happens, before putting bit back on.
And contrary to being “nice”, I would NOT fix her tongue over the bit while working her. I would again, have the bit hung a little loose on the bridle, so SHE can fix her own tongue. With fixing her, it turns into a game of “want a break to rest.” Horse puts tongue over bit, handler stops to fix, and it continues to escalate with tongue over before you can get behind horse to walk on or drive off! Worse with geldings playing, but mares learn it too. In my experience, horse WILL get that tongue over bit, in spite of how high or tight you fasten the bit, noseband of any kind, flash additions to the bridle. Just none of MY efforts have prevented horse from getting his tongue over the bit if he WANTS to. So before it turns into a game, just drive her on with tongue over, in your works. If she tries and can’t get tongue back after a while, I might fix that and drop the bit a hole, then go back to work.
One of our geldings will do tongue over, then puts it back under by himself, has a loosely fitted bit for that reason. He is NOT fitted so he smiles at the crowd! Works for him and us, he is just busy with his mouth now and then. His mother was the same, busy mouths. Both have worn loose-jaw bits to play with their solid mouthpieces while standing, keeps them happy and quiet. They are our “exceptions”, others never did that mouth thing after wearing bits in their stalls. Maybe it is genetic!! Sure not worth “throwing them away” over, they were and are great Driving horses!
If you want to get away from the jointed bits, put a solid mouthpiece on her, use the rein setting at the same place as the mouthpiece for direct pressure. The Kimberwick would do that for you, don’t fasten the curb chain. The port would give a bit of tongue relief when pulled. Mullen with ring sides would be similar, using direct pressure on her mouth, but no bend or folding with solid mouthpiece. I also like swivel sides, do feel it helps them bend easier.
She has to be responsive to the reins, voice, dependable, before she can advance in training. She may not be mentally ready yet. Our horses are SLOW in mental development, can’t pay attention well until about 4 years. The 10 minute learning span they have before then is too small to do driving training. So we do a bit, turn them out, do a bit more, turn them out. But by 5 years, they are like sponges, “show me more!”
Tried the low port with copper roller with full cheeks ( non-leverage). Seems much better. Happy pony, giving to the bit, no tongue issues.
I can’t remember if this was the 4.5" or 4 3/4 but the fit is also perfect. Also seems much more gentle.
I’m not a huge snaffle fan. Seems like my more sensitive horses have not liked them and the colder blooded horses don’t mind.
This bit seems good. I meet for my first lesson soon and will bring all my bits to get the trainer’s opinion.
She has spent some time in bits. She also had 60 days riding training before I got her in Nov. I haven’t been on her yet but have done a bunch of ground driving. Most of our issues have been very minor but I could tell the snaffle wasn’t making a happy pony. This weekend we had no tongue problems and very little mouthing, besides a little bit of roller to start off.
By solid bit, I meant a non-leverage bit but with no hinges on the mouthpieces. The bit I used this weekend looks like a full-cheeked snaffle except the mouthpiece is a very low port with roller. I’d never heard of copper being an issue before.
Yesterday, we had a long session, mostly walking. My husband was blowing leaves and using the chain saw right by where we were working. This pony is going to be very brave!
Was supposed to have our first driving lesson today with a CDE trainer in Southern Pines but I had a trailer hitch problem.
My Mikmar is certainly ugly and can be harsh if you use the lowest setting, curb chain and nose piece. On the snaffle setting without nose or curb, it can be pretty gentle but I don’t need it on her. The jumper I had loved this bit but I only used it after a few years of training. Lots of whoa for hunting or quick jumping classes. He also liked a " Happy mouth" Pelham, straight mouthpiece. He was not at all fond of snaffles and I think it might be part of the reason he failed on the track.
I won’t use that bit on this filly, at least until if/when she’s fully trained and has a special need for it.
I do like the looks of the butterfly Glory bit and will see if my trainer has some bits we can try,too.
I started my young one with a. Mullen mouth. If they are trying to get tongue over the bit they are telling you they need tongue relief. So an arch could solve your problem. I’ve never used a broken mouth piece. I’ve been taught that they are for using one rein at a time like when western riding a young horse. When I’m driving I have constant contact which if broken would always be moving and bending.
