I am in the market for a new horse and am trying to understand movement and what I would be buying into.
Going on the premise any horse can be trained up the levels how does their movement affect their scores?
What limits the horse from progressing? (aside from training) 
Please feel free to talk to me like I donât know much because what I know about showing dressage could be written on a scrap paper, lol
Thank you.
1 Like
What are your goals? To do well at the local level in lower level tests? Or to do well at regionals (at lower levels or at higher levels)
Have you had a chance to look at any dressage tests? Look at the directives for each movement. Elasticity is prominent in many of the movements.
Have you had the opportunity to watch any low level (training, 1st, 2nd), well ridden tests? Check out the ones scoring in the 70âs vs those scored in the 60âs (still well ridden but the gaits hold back the score)
Gaits and natural ability of the horse influence the swing, loft, natural cadence. Training can improve to a certain extent but even the best trainer wonât make a â5â gait horse into a â10â gait horse.
And the rider has to be able to ride that 8, 9, 10 gait horse. If you havenât had the opportunity to do so, if offered the chance, take it. It will be an education in and of itself.
Good luck and let us know how the journey goes.
3 Likes
Movement quality is part of every score for every movement on a test sheet.
So: a horse who is a â8â mover will score easily a point higher (all other things being equal) on a given movement than a horse who is a â6â or â7â mover. It will also of course factor into the Coefficient on the back of the sheet.
Showing a horse who is not an eye-popping mover, you have to make up your points with really good training. Super HARMONY, rideability, submission, accuracy, relaxation and an ability to show good, correct basics.
With a ânormalâ mover being ridden with harmony, flow and correct figures, you can still score above a spectacular mover not showing these qualities. However, if you are on par with that horse/rider team with these qualities and Horse is a better mover⊠Yes they will still score higher than you.
Also, really pay attention to which movements in a test are âtrainingâ movements and get GOOD at them. Things like walk pirouettes, centerlines and halts are scored relative to training, more than the inherent athletic ability of a horse. further along, straight correct changes, seamless transitions, correct but modest extensions all add up to a good score.
Personally, if I am showing my school horse who I payed $3,500 for because I didnât have anything else to show that year⊠And we score a few points lower than an imported, purpose bred horse, I am a happy camper.
One more thing to consider⊠get a horse you are comfortable with. As you go up the levels, those smaller moving horses are much easier for an amateur rider to organize. Also the training starts to equalize the score system the further out the level to go. You may not get sky high scores at training in first level, where Quality of movement takes up a larger portion of the score systemâŠbut that changes later.
7 Likes
This is a big question, and not something youâre likely to learn to pick out right from the start. So my biggest piece of advice is to find a good trainer you trust and shop with them.
That said⊠Iâll try. Judging is supposed to follow the basic formula - Basics + Criteria +/- Modifiers. Basics includes gaits, impulsion, and submission. Criteria is what the movement is (i.e. trot a circle), and the directives listed on the test sheet for that movement. Then Modifiers are the things that have nothing to do with the quality of the ride (horse spooked, accuracy).
So, that means that the quality of each gait factors in to every movement, but you can still do well with average gaits by riding the movement well. However, with quality riding, the 9 mover is likely to beat the 6 mover every time.
In terms of limiting factors, the biggest one is a gait that lacks purity - a trot that doesnât make a clear V with the front and hind legs, a canter that slips into a 4-beat rhythm, and a walk that goes lateral. After that, youâre looking for natural elasticity. While you can teach a horse that naturally moves with only his legs to swing through his back and use his whole body, itâs easier to start with something that doesnât have that challenge.
Then at second level the horse needs to collect - and it needs to collect more and more at each subsequent level. That means strong well conformed hind legs, a strong well conformed back and loin, and no soundness issues/injuries that get in the way.
4 Likes
This bears repeating. From where I sit now, I would look at a horse that has aptitude for dressage, but not necessarily fancy movement. So I would look for a horse that has a level to uphill build and movement, strong loin connection and hind end carrying muscles, decent neck set that can be developed, and of course 3 pure gaits. No need for big suspension or lots of leg action. I want a horse with gaits I can sit, a horse I can collect, a horse that is going to stay sound, and with enough aptitude that it feels fair to ask them for the work required.
11 Likes
Yes to this and the information above as well. I see novice dressage riders end up with horses whose trots they will never sit and that scare them.
If the OP is asking such basic (but good) questions I have to assume they are looking at training and First Level for the next few years. Mind is really important, and trainability. You might still be outscored by a hot green WB with a huge trot in Training level ridden by a pro, but you the not going to be able to muscle that green horse around the arena.
Remember as well that above First level, in Second and above where we start working on collection and then extension, you have to sit the trot in competition and many ammies never do manage to sit the extended trot on a big moving horse.
Also while the extended trot on the diagonal is the money shot in Grand Prix competition, the canter is equally important all the way along. And unfortunately there can be some tradeoff between ability to trot big in this style, and an excellent balanced collected canter.
The most spectacular trots can be seen in harness breeds like standardbred, Friesian, Dutch Harness Horse, etc. But these often have trouble with a really great canter or collecting. So donât mistake giant trot as the final word in movement.
You want a balanced uphill horse with three good gaits, that you can ride comfortably, and you should have a trusted trainer helping you.
5 Likes
Yeah for sure. I have a 5 year old, 16.3 DeNiro/Weltmeyer. Fortunately her trot is floaty enough that I think I will be able to sit it, but it wonât be easy. When she is working over her back, her trot is huge and just sticking to a 20m circle is not easy. On the other side of the coin, I have a 15.2 Appendix mare who is much easier to sit, but not very naturally supple and a little downhill, so the engagement needed for 2nd/3rd is a big ask. My next horse will hopefully be in the sweet spot between the two. I had one (Rascalino/Londonderry, 16H) but unfortunately she could put an NFR saddle bronc to shame (see: strong loin connection, lol).
3 Likes
You have had excellent advice so far. I would also stress the importance of a horse that you enjoy, one who has a willing temperament and a good mind. Any horse can do low level dressage but reasonable/good conformation will make dressage easier even at the lowest stages and a good mind can take you far beyond that. The gaits to look at for dressage are the walk and the canter. Look for the hock movement, in canter especially, and how the horse naturally carries itself over its back, how it steps up. The trot can be hugely improved with correct schooling but a walk not so much. Sadly, the natural gaits may be ruined by poor riding so sometimes it is hard to judge.
2 Likes
Big bay with 1 or three white feet. Thatâs what scores⊠(just kidding⊠kinda 
)
I donât know if any of my horses have the gaits to make him or her a good scoring dressage horse. I think a couple/three of the mustangs do, but theyâre not ready to be ridden yet. I did select them for their dressage conformation/natural movement.
Besides natural regular, even gait⊠and basic conformation (not too wide a chest and hip, medium pasterns, longer illium) a good show horse needs to love to display himself/herself to go far. I have one domestic and one mustang that is a naturalborn âshow horseâ.
Of my domestics, only one of the 10 (so farâŠjust starting another 4yr old now) has all the right stuff. And i do not think the young guy has theâŠpresence to show well even if his gaits pan-out. (natural pacer, so donât really know about him and a trot, and wonât know for quite some time yet)
I didnât select any of those domestic horses with dressage in mind though. I was looking for beautiful pasture ornaments to eat down the grass and/or a good ranch horses to help here on the farm. (as an aside: My Mo.Foxtrotter reads my mindâŠand if i point him at a sheep that i need in for deworming, he will follow that sheep through anything. But, heâs base-narrow and really limited âŠwhich is too bad because i can ride him liberty anytime/anywhereâŠand drag a dead sheep up out of a creekbed with him. He is a great ranch horse. If only i had his brain and temperament âŠhis love of work and of me! in one of my fancier movers âŠgawd, weâd get the scores!)
3 Likes
Natural gaits make a big difference in scoring, getting higher scores if flashier and you can ride those good gaits. My older mare has a ton of eventer breeding, and more naturally efficient gaits. But she SITS. And she is so high energy she absolutely loves working as a way to use that energy calmly. However, she also got a stall injury due to that energy and keeps finding new ways to hurt herself as she is bored during recovery. If she ever settles down enough to recover and return to full work, she will be a GP horse out of force of her own will. Our scores were not great due to lack of showing frequently enough to get good at showing specifically, combined with lack of flash. However, she was on the path toward correctly doing all the GP movements, and seemed likely to score higher at GP than training level for how easy things like piaffe passage transitions and changes were for her.
My younger mare is way more flashy. So, we score higher. Our first show we scored high 60s in tests which I felt showed she was not ready to move up to the next level for contact and bend issues. It was our first show together and she was being herdbound, and future shows will improve that - but the scores for our issues would have been low 50s at best on my other mare.
What isnât involved in the simplicity of that statement is where her movement is an advantage to going up the levels. She has an excellent hind leg, which means we got 8s on some transitions simply because the mechanics of her hind leg allow for very balanced and engaged transitions naturally. Those same mechanics are why as we work on more collection at home she is offering half steps and pirouette canter. Where the older mare has sheer force of will to do what I want, this one has the sheer force of genetics making it so upper level work will be easy for her. Iâm attaching a working trot photo. This was a bad day for her due to mooing monsters hidden in the shadows across the street. My older mare could never dream of moving like that, whereas the youngster just gets better from there.
7 Likes
Look for a horse you can ride, whose gaits and personality donât scare you.
I believe any horse can be trained to 2nd/3rd level, but to get above that successfully, you need 2 things:
1 - A horse with a brain that can take pressure. They need to push their hind legs into your hand and sit, and getting there takes pressure and willingness to work. Even if a horse has amazing gaits and a theoretical ability to SIT, if they canât take the pressure, they wonât be able to compress themselves enough for collection. And that only gets more pronounced as you go up the levels.
2 - The ability to sit over their hocks. I had a horse who took me to PSG. He had the best brain and was a terrific partner. He could do tempi changes until the cows came home, and while his gaits werenât an 8 or 9, he was technically correct. But he stopped where he did because he just wasnât built to sit, so pirouettes and higher levels of collection just werenât going to happen. So look for an ability to bend those hocks, especially at the canter.
6 Likes
up which levels? Any sound horse can get to 2nd Level. Beyond that, even assuming their mind is up to the task, there are conformation traits which allow easier, to WAY harder, extension and collection. Not every sound horse (mind and body) has the conformation to get to FEI levels
Movement is supposed to be correct. Unfortunately, what is âcorrectâ is not always scored well, and what is sometimes scored well is flashy and fancy but not correct. Too often a flashy, incorrect mover will score higher than a âplain boring chestnutâ mover who is impeccably correct
Aside from mental ability, itâs conformation. Poor LS gap will greatly limit how much the hind end can physically be used, which greatly limits the ability to do higher level collection. Front legs set too close to the withers will increase front end weight, which makes it that much harder to properly shift weight back. Straight shoulders, closed scapula-humerus angles all negatively impact front end reach and freedom. A neck that emerges out of the shoulder too low will negatively impact the ability to lift the front end.
The lower levels are about (or SHOULD be about) obedience and correctness/purity of the basic gaits, which is why all sound horses can do up to about 2nd Level. True walk, not lateral. Sound, even, diagonal trot. 3-beat canter with a moment of suspension. Prompt replies to aids. Soft âobedienceâ not accompanied by gnashing teeth and a twirling tail and pinned ears.
4 Likes
Most movement scores are based on the gait quality of the horse. A horse with a gait score of 8 will score an 8 unless on there are modifiers. Identically, a horse with a gait score of 6 will receive a score of a 6 on the same movement unless it needs to be modified.
Modifiers can include tension, geometry, etc.
1 Like
I do not believe this to be true. The gait score is PART of the movement - in the âBasicsâ part of the score - but there is also the Criteria (what the movement is) and then the modifiers.
Score= Basics+Criteria+/-Modifiers, as joiedevie99 wrote above.
6 Likes
Not true. A horse who is an 8-9 mover will get mid 70s for a shitty ride (what I see is behind the vertical, and gaits restricted to mid-70s because the rider is clutching the horseâs face to waterski the big movement). Judges give her an 8 for rider because horse is so spectacular. She does ride the horse forward, even if restricting it (usually gets a rear or kick out every third or fourth ride). A beautifully harmonious ride on a 6 mover will get a 65 and the rider will get a 6.5 despite riding harmoniously and sympathetically. I see this all the time, at every show. People have figured it out and everyone is now buying expensive foals because they canât afford the Helgstrand horse. This is what dressage is. Movement uber alles.
2 Likes
If your goal is to be the highest score, movement really really matters. One of the beautiful things about dressage is that you can have a meaningful journey and show extensively without ever winning a top 3 ribbon. There are benchmarks including earning your medals that are the whole focus for some peopleâs show careers. A medal qualifying score may be 7th place in a big class. Some riders really focus on their rider score or other ways of tracking their growth that donât need to be compared against other riders.
Finding a sound good minded horse that enjoys working in the ring and has rideable gaits will get you far. Iâve sat ringside at nationals for years and years as a groom or spectator. Yes, many of these horses are 8/9 movers. However, there are always very âaverageâ horses in the mix where they have consistently scored very well because of accurate rides and beautiful harmony.
Buy the horse you can ride today walk, trot, canter. If you value showing, buy the horse that travels well and has a good brain off property. Thatâll put you light years ahead of someone of the same skill who bought a horse they are afraid to canter or canât get on to the trailer the night before a show.
10 Likes
I agree with GraceLikeRain - there are other factors than just gaits.
I have a nice-moving warmblood, but there is almost always a nicer-moving horse in our classes. However, we almost always win because 1) my horse has become very reliable to show (i.e., sheâs very attentive to me and submissive [which wasnât always the case!]) and 2) I am very good at putting a test together (i.e., I know where and how to half-halt and prepare for a movement, where to put the movement etc. [side note: this is a skill everyone can learn and develop that doesnât depend on gaits]). So we win not because my horse has the best gaits, but because we demonstrate an extremely correct test. The gaits just mean that we also score really well, but we have been beat by average movers before!
I have, in the past, shown horses that were not so reliable (my own included!) and it should come as no surprise that a sudden meltdown halfway through the test or a horse that stops and swings itâs head up to look at a tractor does not score as well as an average horse that has a clean test. To reiterate what everyone else has said - buy the brain and rideability. Particularly if youâre a lower level rider that wants to enjoy their horse now. Although Iâm now winning at FEI with a nice horse, she was quite difficult as a youngster, and it has taken me years to develop the rideability and reliability that is allowing us to do so well. I was not confident we would ever get there, to be honest. If you donât enjoy that struggle (I like a challenge, so I do), then buy the horse you can ride and enjoy now, regardless of whether it has 8 or 9 gaits.
To summarize and address your original questions:
- Unless you mean up to second level, donât assume every horse can be trained up the levels. At any level, a nice mover will score better than an average mover for a similarly clean test. Average gaits can be developed into nicer gaits, to an extent (especially the trot).
- What limits the horse from progressing is usually the brain first (rideability, trainability, and reliability), and the conformation second (<-- tomes have been written on this so I suggest you start reading Hilary Claytonâs work on functional confirmation. She is the guru you seek. She also has some good videos online you can find.)
If you want to dig into movement and dressage scoring more, I HIGHLY recommend you audit an L program if there is one near you. It is extremely educational.
9 Likes
OP I think others have answered your question well about how much movement plays into the scores â if you want to be competitive, you need a good moving horse at the lower levels. Thereâs lots of ways to make a horse have a good dressage test, but without the quality of movement as a positive component, you may never place. As you progress up the levels, the movement still plays a component but youâll never progress past 2nd with a horse that doesnât want to truly collect⊠which is why once you get past 2nd there is a big diversity in movement and the average or mediocre horses tend to begin to hold their own.
If you are aiming for lower levels, watch the videos of those who consistently score well (70s% in dressage, sub-30s in eventing). It can be very educational watching how those horses are ridden.
We like to say judges all have the same standards in terms of movement scoring but I have not witnessed it myself. There are certain judges I know better than to ride in front of, and others I know I can ride a barely broke horse and still score well. I rarely ever see an average mover with a geometrically accurate test score above the brilliant mover that was inaccurate, and Iâve ridden in classes where Iâve watched an incorrectly moving horse score extremely well just because he looked fancy, more than once. No matter how correct your test, if youâre not riding a good mover you wonât score well and you certainly wonât be competitive at the lower levels.
I just had an event show a few weeks ago (BN) with the two TB siblings. They look the same but are very different movers. One has a nice natural rhythm and elasticity, but lacks suspension. I would categorize him as an efficient mover with natural looseness - he has THE canter/gallop you want to have XC and is all business. The other has a big presence and is a genuinely brilliant mover, but the more tense he gets the springier he gets - which is sometimes rewarded when it shouldnât be. He also tends to get strung out and it takes much more core and mental stamina to ride him. Personally, I think the less brilliant mover delivers consistently better tests in terms of accuracy because he is much more rideable, but the big mover has a natural gravitas and always scores 4-8 penalty points better than his brother. This surprises me, because when I rewatch videos, I see more tension in the better mover and fewer accurate movements.
I have another show (this time dressage) in 3 weeks, Iâll let you know if that continues to be a trend.
4 Likes
Having spent most of my riding career riding average movers that I competed in dressage among other things, you need to decide what your goals are. Quality of movement is always going to be a factor in dressage and flash/ease of big movement is most often rewarded. You can be competitive on average moving horses especially in all-breed awards, rider awards, etc. if you ride and train correctly. As others have said, conformation, disposition, trainability all factor in hugely as to whether or not youâre going to enjoy the journey which is where the focus needs to be and should be. Iâve earned bronze and silver on horses that were considered â6â movers as well as several dover medals (no longer being awarded), highpoint awards, all-breed awards, qualified and competed earning top 3 placings in regionals, and the like on such â6â movers who had hearts of gold. It is imperative in my opinion that after you get beyond the decent conformation that possesses 3 pure gaits that you ride what you love and love what you ride. Dressage is hard and exacting. Loving what you ride is what gets you through the hard times and helps you make the best decision in how to reach your goals with your horseâs best interest in mind. Iâm still on my quest for my gold. This time it is with another 6 mover (pure but limited walk) with pretty nice trot and canter; so we make due. Heâs 7 and training third level. Heâs a homebred who offers to do anything I ask and is an absolute pleasure to be around at all times. We get beat by better movers; but, what he has achieved and shows the willingness to try puts just as big if not bigger smile on my face He has what it takes to learn it all through grand prix at least to the quality of a 6 score if I train and ride correctly - and so far the requirements for a gold still are scoring 60.00 for each of the applicable tests. His only limitation is and will be me.
7 Likes
I agree that the gaits are especially important at the lower levels for the highest scores. There simply arent enough movements or other things to reward to override. Interestingly, I have found that the higher rated judges were more fair about rewarding correctness than most ârâ (or âLâ) judges. I do wish they would completely remove the gaits score from the collectives since it is considered in almost every other score. (but it least it is not doubled now)
I think it would help you, OP, to have whoever you would take dressage lessons with look at any prospect you find before buying. You want a trainable mind first of all, a balanced animal, and no gait well below average. I would avoid a tense horse, myself. No pacey walks. No four-beat canter. I find western pleasure and saddleseat training harder to work with (kind of opposite problems). You didnt mention your background, budget or training plans with a coach. All that matters a lot.
5 Likes
