moving the Preakness?

[ASB_Stars]

[QUOTE=caffeinated;8675187]
I think a renovation would be the best case scenario, but it seems there are more voices pushing for moving the race completely. I have a hard time letting go of history - not just the history of the track but many good times there (and not just on Preakness day, I like going best on quiet days, where it’s just people from the neighborhood, and you can get a good view of everything. Back when I used to go a lot I met so many interesting people there…)[/QUOTE]

You know, I like when they combine the old with the new, in renovations. I’m just not sure how you would do it. The floors in the clubhouse are OLD, and wood- they aren’t going to reparable. The place is just looking for someone to drop a match, seriously. And, I find that very, very sad.

When they re-did Devon, they kept the old look, with the new. Granted, the skyboxes over the Dixon Oval aren’t a nod to the past, but the majority of the work, on the barns, etc. kept the facades. The old bathroom is still awful, but the new one is decent. The lovely ladies (and I mean that) working in the bathroom at Pimlico were doing a great job.

[Palm_Beach]

[QUOTE=caffeinated;8675187]
I think a renovation would be the best case scenario, but it seems there are more voices pushing for moving the race completely. I have a hard time letting go of history - not just the history of the track but many good times there (and not just on Preakness day, I like going best on quiet days, where it’s just people from the neighborhood, and you can get a good view of everything. Back when I used to go a lot I met so many interesting people there…)[/QUOTE]

I don’t know that a renovation is economically feasible. The plant is so old and needs so many repairs and upgrades that it will probably make more sense to knock it down and start from scratch. It is honestly falling apart.

[Shammy_Davis]

I think moving the Preakness to VA is the best possible option. Breaking news, the FBI is investigating our current governor for illegal election financing and along with his crooked predecessor and his wife going to prison, Virginians need a reason to use their picnic baskets and drink themselves unconscious.

[Ponyplusaninch]

[QUOTE=Palm Beach;8675237]
I don’t know that a renovation is economically feasible. The plant is so old and needs so many repairs and upgrades that it will probably make more sense to knock it down and start from scratch. It is honestly falling apart.[/QUOTE]

To add, the kind of renovation needed there would be a tear down and build new–easily in the 75-100 mil mark. That is a hefty investment for any large corporation, and they have to sort of weigh the possible outcomes. They would need to keep having record breaking crowds at Preakness and very healthy crowds the rest of the year to make their money back.

[ASB_Stars]

[QUOTE=Pony+ an inch;8675457]
To add, the kind of renovation needed there would be a tear down and build new–easily in the 75-100 mil mark. That is a hefty investment for any large corporation, and they have to sort of weigh the possible outcomes. They would need to keep having record breaking crowds at Preakness and very healthy crowds the rest of the year to make their money back.[/QUOTE]

I agree with this. It is sad, but true. I spent 25 years in the construction world. What I saw at Pimlico made me wonder what Stronach is up to, frankly.

[Laurierace]

http://www.bizjournals.com/baltimore/news/2016/05/23/jockey-club-gm-preakness-will-be-at-pimlico-as.html?ana=fbk

[Texarkana]

Personal opinion: keep the track and the land, raze the entire grandstand (and almost every other structure on the property).

Rebuild a small structure with character, like one that models the old clubhouse, to house some betting/simulcast facilities and a swanky restaurant/event center. Something classy enough to host weddings and similar events.

Do not build a grandstand-- you can accommodate more than enough seating for Preakness day with temporary bleacher seating and tarp structures for a fraction of the overhead. Bring in betting machines and temporary windows for Preakness day.

Raze and/or renovate the barns, reduce the stalls by at least half.

Run boutique meets (which they already pretty much do). With so many stalls in the area, you could even make the meets ship in to further reduce overhead.

When the track is dark, use the clubhouse and the land to host events that will cater to the young adult and hipster crowd. Farmers Markets, concerts (of the low overhead variety, not like the expensive shows they keep getting in over their heads with), beer/wine festivals, family days, 5Ks, movies, etc. That will be key to revitalizing that part of the city. Also, if you get the young people wanting to come to the track for other stuff all the time, they are more likely to want to come on race day.

Racing can barely support itself at the moment. We don’t need these dinosaur structures dragging us down.

[caffeinated]

[QUOTE=Palm Beach;8675237]
I don’t know that a renovation is economically feasible. The plant is so old and needs so many repairs and upgrades that it will probably make more sense to knock it down and start from scratch. It is honestly falling apart.[/QUOTE]

I’d be fine with that, I would just want it to keep its character and history - maybe something built to replicate the original buildings there would work. I just don’t want Preakness to move from this location, and I want Pimlico to stay as a working racetrack.

At the same time, I’m a little resistant to ideas to turn it into a hipster paradise full of farmer’s markets and the like - not because I don’t like those things but because it’s out of character for the neighborhood. I know everybody thinks it’s a horrible neighborhood and needs to be “revitalized” but I work with a few people who live over there, and they’re pretty opposed to those things too. There’s an idea that revitalizing neighborhoods or helping them means attracting richer white people, and I think while that has helped some neighborhoods economically, it’s not the right approach for this area. I know this sounds as racist as anything else but the idea of going there to watch the races and being surrounded by young white people buying organic produce and free trade coffee bothers me, that’s not what that place is about.

I’m not a developer, so I don’t know what the answer is, I just know I love Pimlico and a big part of why is the people and the sort of established, gritty feel of the place. And one of the sandwich places down the street, which is incredible.

I do think the idea of making the facilities smaller, and doing bleacher/tent seating for preakness in lieu of the old wooden grandstand does make sense, and would probably be a good place to start.

[Palm_Beach]

So you’d rather have bullets, single mothers, drunks and drugs? It’s not “gritty,” it is a high crime, dangerous area.

http://www.wbaltv.com/news/man-shot-killed-outside-pimlico-worked-as-security-guard/33486520

[caffeinated]

[QUOTE=Palm Beach;8675829]
So you’d rather have bullets, single mothers, drunks and drugs? It’s not “gritty,” it is a high crime, dangerous area.

http://www.wbaltv.com/news/man-shot-killed-outside-pimlico-worked-as-security-guard/33486520[/QUOTE]

Hey now, I know people who actually live there and have actually walked through parts of that neighborhood. Have you?

My discomfort with some of the ideas for revitalization is that they always seem centered around gentrification and bringing in white people, which often displaces people who have lived in the area for generations and doesn’t take them into account. I’m deeply uncomfortable with the idea that making a place better means driving out what makes a place unique. I would never say Park Heights doesn’t have problems or is a fine, jolly, perfectly safe area with no problems, because it’s not. But whatever plan takes hold for Pimlico I think it has to take the neighborhood into account rather than disregard it.

[SaratogaTB]

Those that work on the backstretch at Pimlico continuously tell me that they are afraid to leave the gates of the backstretch. It is the track where they cannot take a stroll outside for fear of safety issues. Forget it if you don’t have a car. Maryland racing has just started offering free shuttle service to stores, etc. On holidays MTHA offers free dinners on the backstretch, and mailboxes just became an option.

I am there every weekend, and I give grooms rides to shop and get haircuts and go to the bank because they are afraid to leave the grounds.

[DMK]

[QUOTE=caffeinated;8675782]
I’d be fine with that, I would just want it to keep its character and history - maybe something built to replicate the original buildings there would work. I just don’t want Preakness to move from this location, and I want Pimlico to stay as a working racetrack.[/QUOTE]

I agree, and if you think you can’t lose a precious part of racing history just like that, try to watching the Flamingo at Hialeah, probably one of the prettiest tracks on the planet.

Life before Brunetti tried to play the power hand https://youtu.be/vKjIZjRAR-o

Life after Brunetti lost the power hand https://youtu.be/N87r3XeQDwA

(and yes, it has since then been restored for slots and QH races. That’s no thanks to Brunetti and only not completely offensive for the sake of the historic architecture.)

[Palm_Beach]

What Saratoga said. And Pimlico cannot hold a candle to Hialeah. I can’t think of anything of architectural interest or beauty about Pimlico. It’s a dump in a bad neighborhood.

[Shammy_Davis]

[QUOTE=SaratogaTB;8675866]
Those that work on the backstretch at Pimlico continuously tell me that they are afraid to leave the gates of the backstretch. It is the track where they cannot take a stroll outside for fear of safety issues. Forget it if you don’t have a car. Maryland racing has just started offering free shuttle service to stores, etc. On holidays MTHA offers free dinners on the backstretch, and mailboxes just became an option.

I am there every weekend, and I give grooms rides to shop and get haircuts and go to the bank because they are afraid to leave the grounds.[/QUOTE]

All the more reason to move the Preakness to VA. The Plains, the projected site for VA picnic horse racing, is very rural. The criminals won’t even know how to find it. Sadly, that might also be the case for the fans.

Well, if anyone wants to experience an extremely safe and quiet day of horse racing, VA is the place.

[Laurierace]

[QUOTE=SaratogaTB;8675866]
Those that work on the backstretch at Pimlico continuously tell me that they are afraid to leave the gates of the backstretch. It is the track where they cannot take a stroll outside for fear of safety issues. Forget it if you don’t have a car. Maryland racing has just started offering free shuttle service to stores, etc. On holidays MTHA offers free dinners on the backstretch, and mailboxes just became an option.

I am there every weekend, and I give grooms rides to shop and get haircuts and go to the bank because they are afraid to leave the grounds.[/QUOTE]

I am a white woman who trained 7 days a week at Pimlico for almost a decade and never once, not one single second was I ever afraid on the grounds or in the surrounding area.

[ASB_Stars]

Honestly, my largest concern for the track was knowing that Stronach had purchased it, and that is was in such awful shape. It just begs the question as to what he really is planning. You would think that he would have thrown some money into it, being as it is such a high profile track, at least one day a year.

Does anyone know if he has done any improvements, or if any have been scheduled, other than just enough to keep the fire marshall at bay?

[Shammy_Davis]

[QUOTE=Laurierace;8676093]
I am a white woman who trained 7 days a week at Pimlico for almost a decade and never once, not one single second was I ever afraid on the grounds or in the surrounding area.[/QUOTE]

If you have the same personal presence as you do on-line, I can imagine that you would scare the drawers off the worst hoodlum in Baltimore. There is no doubt in my mind that if the Freddy Gray rioters had known you were on the streets in the city, they would have stayed home and attempted to master knitting. Not everyone is you though. Crime in Baltimore is at its worst. I wouldn’t give you the same odds standing in the way of a Red Chinese tank and lord only knows what the common sense of a union bull dozer operator might be. You be careful now.

[Texarkana]

[QUOTE=caffeinated;8675840]
Hey now, I know people who actually live there and have actually walked through parts of that neighborhood. Have you?

My discomfort with some of the ideas for revitalization is that they always seem centered around gentrification and bringing in white people, which often displaces people who have lived in the area for generations and doesn’t take them into account. I’m deeply uncomfortable with the idea that making a place better means driving out what makes a place unique. I would never say Park Heights doesn’t have problems or is a fine, jolly, perfectly safe area with no problems, because it’s not. But whatever plan takes hold for Pimlico I think it has to take the neighborhood into account rather than disregard it.[/QUOTE]

Caffeinated, I 100% agree and have the same issues when “revitalization” just becomes “gentrification” with no concerns for the people living in an area.

But for the track to survive, it needs income. For it to bring in income, it needs to attract people to spend money. And unfortunately, a lot of people with money to spend are deterred by Pimlico’s location.

In a perfect world, the track would find a way to support it’s surrounding community without just casting out the current residents. But it can’t support the community if it can barely even support itself. And it can’t support itself if people don’t feel safe going there, whether or not their concerns about safety are justified.

One more thing about my “hipster paradise” comments: believe me, I don’t think the world needs more hipsters. My suggestions stem from affordable ways to bring in income from the young, middle class. But I strongly believe winning over the young, middle class is key to racing surviving for a couple reasons:

First, tracks need to diversify their income. The old model of relying on being the only legal form of gambling doesn’t work anymore, there’s too much competition for gamblers. The young, middle class is a large group willing to spend money on entertainment; you can’t let that go untapped.

Second, the middle class makes up a huge portion of voters. Racing is a sport regulated by state governments. The majority of the young, middle class has grown up with no connection to racing other than the occasional, horrific, sensational headline, like this weekend’s. How long until this socially active youth decides to take a stand against their perceived injustices to animals? I mean, look what happened with the carriage horses in New York. It became a hot button topic in the mayoral race to try to get the carriage horses out because many truly believed it was best for the animals. Will racing become the next target? The only way to make sure it doesn’t is to make sure we have allies across the entire voting population.

[Palm_Beach]

http://crimebaltimore.com/ cool map

[Shammy_Davis]

Recent picture of VRC chair promoting VA horse racing in MD.

http://www.businessinsider.com/insane-pictures-drinking-preakness-2013-5#off-color-shirts-which-we-imagine-havent-gone-away-23