Moving up to 4 wheels with a large mini

I have been driving my mini with a small training cart, knowing that starting out, it was the safest and easiest for me to learn with.

Well, i think i’m ready to move up to something with four wheels. Be it carriage or little wagon of some kind, i dont know yet. I really only pleasure drive with him down the road.

My main reason for wanting to change, and it could very well be my cart and not ALL carts in general (i dont know, i’ve only driven my cart), but my husband goes driving with me and when he leans back on the back rest, i swear if feels like the whole seat is going to fall off backwards and it scares me. I know it wont and it’s just a part of how the leaf springs work… But it still scares me! :slight_smile:

So my question(s)…

Is there a big difference in the feel from cart to carriage?

Is it as bouncy as a cart?

Will the front seat still tip backwards as in my cart? (or maybe if it does, since i know there is “more” behind me i wont get the feeling i’m going to be laying on the road?)

How much weight could my mini pull? Does he have to work harder to pull a carriage vs a cart (balance different or anything?)

What type of carriage would you recommend? I was really thinking about a marrathon carriage because i know it would have the most comfort for going down the road, but i dont know i can save up that much money just for pleasure driving. (Secretly i would love to do some competitions with him one day, but would rather do that with my Cob mare when she gets going and the money would be better spent waiting for her.)

Does anyone have carriages for their minis and if so, can you send pics so i can get a better idea of what to be looking for?

there certainly are folks who know this better than I do but I will get it started at any rate with a few thoughts.
First, most single mini vehicles are not made for more than one person because a single VSE doesn’t require a gator on the marathon. Marathon vehicles tend to have a single wedge seat for the driver, eliminating your feeling of falling out, for sure.
The wheels are usually smaller on a 4 wheeler than a 2 wheeler. Larger wheels roll better, each wheel causes some drag, so the 2 wheeler may be easier to pull. Less drag, fewer wheels.
The 4 wheeler will be heavier than a 2 wheel cart, without a doubt. Then if you add your husband, you are maybe getting up to what the VSE weighs between you, husband, carriage. If you go on flat ground that is not deep or rough, you may be fine. For normal ground, not particularly sandy or steep, pulling their weight is usually ok but depends on condition, lengh of drive, etc, etc, etc. No hard and fast rules here.
When your husband leans back, do the shafts go up? If so, that is putting pressure on the mini’s tummy instead of the back. It may help to see your cart to figure out what is happening.
4 wheelers are a different ride. I think you feel the bumps in the road more but you don’t feel the horses gaits. How much you feel the gaits depends some on the horse and some on the balance of the cart.
Like I said, someone who has a 4 wheeler for their VSE may have more/different stuff to add. I have a mini donk and a 10.1h shetland that I drive to carts.

My mini is 36". Here is a pic of him and his cart:
http://kaydanfarms.com/TaterFirstDrive1.JPG
(Yes, we DO wear helmets. This was our first drive at home (not at the trainers) and i did not have a helmet for my son (nothing fit) but i’ve since found a bicycle helmet small enough, better than nothing, and we both wear helmets faithfully. This was the only moment we sat on that seat without one, and of course, its the only photos i have! Darn it!)

What i would LOVE to get him is this:
http://www.drivingessentials.com/glink_minimixwagon.htm
(It says for a mini pair, but said it will do single too, and i’ve seen pics of it with a single.)

Or would be interested in a puddle jumper “tadpole” which might be a little lighter than the above carriage, but more $$$

Both might be out of my budget, it would take some saving!

I havent really seen a “wagon” that i like… I’ve seen quite a few of them for minis, but they look rather blah for the price tag. Mostly, we only drive on the road, so it would be flat, easy surface. No hills, a couple slight inclines, but that’s it. However, if i were to do what i want to (compete) then i do need to keep in mind something that could be a little more multipurpose (such as the marathon vehicle).

Really, i think my main reason for looking at 4 wheels is how my cart scares me on the leaning back issue. And maybe it’s strictly related to the construction of my cart, like i said, i’ve never driven anything else (aside from some jerald show cart types when i was a kid which has no back and you wouldnt lean back anyway).

When my husband is in the cart and leans back, i DO feel the shafts come up a little. Only when he sits back against the back rest though. You can see in my photo, i tend to lean forward a little when i drive, its a self preservation “I might fall off the back of this cart” issue! :slight_smile:

I think your cart could use larger wheels. It looks like the shafts are tipping up and the seat is leaning back with out your husband in it. Larger wheels will help it sit more level. The rule of thumb for a horse (not sure about a mini) is they should pull no more tahn 75% of there weight.
On a 1000 pd horse a four wheel can weigh 600 pds plus and tehn if you add 2 people it is hard to get the weight low.
With the size of your mini I don’t think he could handle a 4whell and 2 adults very comfortably for very long.

I have wondered about my wheels as well. The trainer had this cart and suggested it because the tires are solid rubber (not innertube cheap type) and she thought they would hold up better. But i wondered if they seemed too small.

He’s kinda a hard size of mini it seems. Most everything is made for just a tad smaller pony or a tad larger… His harness is on the last hole everywhere and i wish i had a couple more holes in places. It is a cheap “starter” type and will be replaced in the next month or so, i want a synthetic harness.

So if i were to get larger wheels for this cart, it would lose the flip backwards feel?

Know where i can get new wheels? :slight_smile:

http://www.itebteranch.net/index.htm

These people have an interesting collection of “built for minis” vehicles
I have no idea where they price in, but if you like the look, it could be worth a call

[QUOTE=butlerfamilyzoo;4771845]
I have wondered about my wheels as well. The trainer had this cart and suggested it because the tires are solid rubber (not innertube cheap type) and she thought they would hold up better. But i wondered if they seemed too small.

He’s kinda a hard size of mini it seems. Most everything is made for just a tad smaller pony or a tad larger… His harness is on the last hole everywhere and i wish i had a couple more holes in places. It is a cheap “starter” type and will be replaced in the next month or so, i want a synthetic harness.

So if i were to get larger wheels for this cart, it would lose the flip backwards feel?

Know where i can get new wheels? :)[/QUOTE]

Have someone hold the shafts level and sit in it and see how it feels. You need to be careful and it not get the wheels too high or the weight will be on your pony. Have you checked it for balance to see how the weight is distributed and see if the seat needs adjusting?

I agree that the wheels could be a little larger, but not much because the shafts will be too high on the pony body. You kind of want the shafts running down the middle of the body, if possible. You can fudge it a little above or below, but to look and work best, mid way on body is your choice.

Has your husband ever held the shafts, while someone climbed in or out of the vehicle? This might be an eye-opener for him, as the weight of shafts changes dramatically when the seated person leans forward or back against the seatback. Puts their feet up on the dashboard! Axle is the pivot point, like the wheelbarrow. Seat postion above the axle can be too forward or too far back, making the moving, seated person change the shaft weight on the pony suddenly as they shift. The more the moving person weighs, the heavier the shafts get on pony back or pull upward on his belly, when that person leans back gets weight behind the axle

Ideally, you want very little shaft weight on the harness, not more than about 10 pounds with passengers in the vehicle. Load is supposed to balance while driving, not heavy or no weight at all. This 10# shaft weight is about the same on a larger horse’s back, or the mini. Sometimes the shaft weight WILL be heavier, like when getting in or out of the cart, stopping or downhill travel. Animal should accept that, then things lighten up on the flat, everyone seated quietly.

You have not mentioned how you plan to use the pony in the long run. Just out fun driving? Maybe do some trails or drive around out in the field? Take the husband and any kids along? Maybe catch a show now and again? I am asking so we have better information about what we recommend to use. Minis are small, and need to have that kept in mind. Road driving with prepared surface of firm gravel is easier to pull on than trails or fields, the arena.

4-wheels have more drag to pull, though no shaft weight on the pony like a cart does. Some styles of wheels seem to dig in more, while others leave almost no tracks on soft ground. So all road driving might work with the bike type tires, light weight for sure! Bike tires have a bad name for bending and rolling the rubber off the wheel when used in places other than the arena. Not designed for the sideways torque carts can give them whe we are out having fun. Other folks have had motorcyle wheels put on their carts for driving on sand, gives a ‘float’ type ride which is not so tiring to pull. They are real happy with the change, say they have no problems with that upgrade in hard use with their carts.

4-wheels do give more room to sit, spread out the load being pulled. You have to learn to turn well with the fold action, carts just follow the horse.

The Glinkowski shown, might come with pnuematic tires as an option, which are getting more common on pleasure vehicles. They do improve the ride, without the loss of tires in field drives or on rough roads. Hubs and spokes are metal and very solid for any kind of driving. They won’t fold!

A friend has the model carriage shown, and it is VERY nice. Pulls quite easily, really almost no weight on flat ground when I moved it around empty. Not any heavier pull than a kids’ type Red Flyer wagon in the yard. She drives a Pair, 34" geldings I think. She has used the vehicle hard, CDE and pleasure showing, it has done a good job for her. However it was NOT INEXPENSIVE, took her some saving up to get it. Quality is excellent in all areas of vehicle, she has been very happy to have it. She says it is even comfortable seating for true ADULT size people, not just children. Many of the mini things are really not adult sized. She has one energizer-bunny mini, who would pull it alone. However with anything except flat ground, her riding alone, very short drive, she thinks it would be too heavy for much driving with her 34" mini as a single. Just works better as a Pair vehicle for her sized animals. Brakes help hold the load on hills, if she has friends along.

Not sure what your budget is, for horse toys. Some prices might scare you if you haven’t been shopping much for the better vehicles. Sometimes you can find used stuff, save a little. Hope the things mentioned, help you with deciding what you want.

Thank you goodhorse, great post.

As for price, i’m thinking i could save up in the 4k range if i really wanted to. The only hold back on that is, i’m not sure i really want to if i’m only driving him down the road. Would love to get into driving pairs, but matching him to another mini may be a pain in the rear.

Right now, he is strictly used in the front 7 acres (all flat) and on the road (all flat with a few slight inclines in a couple spots). I would LOVE to compete with him, but would have to get some lessons. We do walk/trot/canter and figures around the front yard and i’ve sat up some cones and played with it. It’s helped to improve my stearing and feel. The girl that started my pony for me does strictly pleasure and breaks out most minis for kids, so this pony has been out on the trails, down roads, over water, bridges, steep hills, etc and she broke him to ride for me too. (He will eventually be my son’s pony, so i wanted him to do it all.) I figure a year of driving around with me and he’ll be the perfect, been there, done that, nothing bothers him type of guy. He’s basically that right now, he just doesnt like to stand still for very long, he’s a bit of an energizer bunny.

But until he’s my kids pony (and maybe even during and after as i really enjoy him) i’m just not 100% sure what we’ll end up doing with him.

Ultimate goal, my cob mare needs sent off and i want to do CDEs with her. Thus do i REALLY want to sink that kind of money into a good carriage for the mini? Or save it for the 6-8k carriage for the cob? I really need to make up my mind. :smiley:

I have not sat in the cart and had anyone pick up the shafts, nor has my husband, i think we’ll experiment with that today. I’m not scared of a wire spoke tire (unless its cheapy bike tires with intertubes) but i know you couldnt kill mine without some major machinery crunching them.

I do agree that i think most mini carts are designed with kids or smaller people in mind. A lot of what i’ve been browsing around for seems to be that way and i’m not sure my 5’3 self could actually fit in it!