Mud Fever / Scratches prevention products?

[sascha]

note: Diet contains plenty of Zinc and Copper!

My special little cupcake threw a first case at me this year for reasons. And of course, see “special little cupcake” reacted to just about everything I tried to clear it up. Anyway, we’re finally getting on top of this nonsense now (baby ass cream + tetracycline powder + keeping it wrapped FTW) so I’m thinking forward to prevention during mud season which could last all winter since we don’t seem to get the cold and snow we used to get anymore.

I’ve found a couple of products available, Keratex Mud Shield Powder and Dust On! Skin Powder. Has anyone used either or any other product and been happy with the results?

Description

Keratex Mud Shield Powder is a highly-acclaimed, handy, easy-to-use powder for horse’s legs. Mud Shield powder creates a cleansing and waterproofing action on legs which are prone to scabs and broken skin in wet and muddy conditions. This light talc will give your horse’s legs a breathable, resilient coat of powder that does not absorb water and does not become sticky. It also works by making the leg hair so silky that mud cannot grip onto hair or soften the skin underneath. This respected product is widely recognized by the equestrian community as a leader in its field. Available in an easy-to-use puff bottle. Topical powder. 450gm.

Easy-to-use powder for horse’s legs
Creates a cleansing and waterproofing action on legs which are prone to scabs and broken skin
For use in wet and muddy conditions
Creates a breathable, resilient coat of powder that does not absorb water or become sticky
Makes leg hair silky so mud cannot grip onto hair or soften the skin underneath
Puff bottle
Topical powder
450gm

Dust On! All-In-One Wound Dressing is a dry powder that stops bleeding fast. Draws and absorbs discharge. Creates a firm and breathable scab. Allows body to heal naturally and does not damage live tissue. Non-caustic for proud flesh. Also for dehorning/docking. All-natural; for all animals. Contains multiple clays as the light base that draws, absorbs and adheres; 13% food grade copper salt/active; diatomaceous earth and oregano powder. Directions: Before first use, gently cleanse affected area and remove all debris. Puff powder directly on and around laceration, abrasion or rash. Use 1-3 times a day until bleeding and drainage ceases. Once per day thereafter. When scab size has considerably decreased, continue use 2-3 time per week to aid against proud flesh. Made in the USA. 2.5oz / 70.9g

*truly wet summer + longer grass than usual + some potentially not clean fill added to pasture right by the gate + some potentially sketch footing (we’ve moved, but are now in MudVille lol)

[Simkie]

Despite the label, the second appears to be a caustic powder & not something I would really want to use on delicate, fragile, pissed off skin.

I know you’re very up front that you’ve covered the copper/zinc angle but…I also have horses that just seem to need a LOT. I don’t know why. They didn’t need this much before we lived here. Looking at the diet they should be fine with less. But when I feed less, I get a host of “not enough” symptoms. So I feed more, and they don’t play the scratches, cellulitis, leukoderma, sun bleaching, etc game. (I don’t see all those things in just one horse, but I do see them all across my herd when I try to reduce!)

Anywho. You might want to try feeding more. Especially when they’re laying in coat. That definitely seems to be a point of need, at least for my guys.

[Renn_aissance]

I’m gonna be honest, I don’t think any of that stuff works.

I did two things differently last year that seemed to have helped my elder statesman, whose age and Cushings make him susceptible.

1. Let the legs get real, real hairy. My horse is Irish. He grew feathers. I could have put him in a beer commercial if all four of his legs were white. I am convinced that no moisture ever got to the skin.
2. If that is not an option (or before the feathers get properly magnificent) wash the legs every other day with a mild soap (or chlorhexidine shampoo if they were knee deep in mud all night,) towel dry, then part the hair and plaster with baby powder. Let dry. Brush off or leave on according to your whims and how silly the horse looks.

[JB]

Can I ask just how much cu and zn you’re adding, total? Maybe you really are adding enough that more is just more, but sometimes paper says there’s plenty in comparison to the NRC requirements, but reality is that some horses need significantly more than that

That said, how old is she? Has this been a problem for years? Is PPID in the picture, could it be, tested and no question not PPID?

[luvmyhackney]

I just use athletes foot powder from the dollar store.

But yes, if muddy, wash and dry. I clip legs only if active case.

[sascha]

She’s on appropriate Equalizer for her weight and max Mad Barn Cu and Zn for her size. I can increase - that would certainly be easy.

This is new as if this summer when a bunch of crap changed.

No to PPID … Yet. She’s 18.

No, this is not a thing for her. Brand new late this summer. She is prone to hind leg keratosis, but that hasn’t actually been a problem for a couple of years.

[sascha]

Thanks for the heads up on the second product!

[JB]

@sascha

She’s on appropriate Equalizer for her weight and max Mad Barn Cu and Zn for her size. I can increase - that would certainly be easy.

Thanks! A single serving of their 3:1 product has 300mg zn and 100mg cu. On top of a ration balancer, that’s pretty good, potentially just not enough at this point. At 18, things might be changing a bit. I, personally, feed about double that, on top of a ration balancer. That’s what keeps rain rot out of my herdlet

@sascha

She is prone to hind leg keratosis

Is she (largely) TB and/or Arabian? Those breeds especially are prone to cannon keratosis, which is almost nearly always about the hind legs. My last and current full TBs deal(t) with it each Summer, though my mare’s 85% TB son never has. It’s not a diet thing, it’s environmental (heat, humidity) and breed, and some years it’s less of an issue than others.

[sascha]

@JB

Is she (largely) TB and/or Arabian?

Although her fondest wish when she was younger was to be a distance runner, no, she is warmblood.

I will try doubling her Cu/Zn.

[JB]

But what % TB does she have? Just curious.

[sascha]

Oh! Actually the TB isn’t as far back as I remembered. Dam’s dam was TB and sire’s granddam was TB. And then the usual small sprinkling a ways back on the sire’s sire (dutch/westphalian) side. Dam sire was Hanoverian so not much there!

The funniest thing is she acts more Arabian than TB in general. When she gets a bee up her butt (needs to blow off steam by way of acting completely silly) she has been called The World’s Biggest Arabian … by Arabian people

[sascha]

@JB

A single serving of their 3:1 product has 300mg zn and 100mg cu.

Hokay, so, looking into her Cu and Zn further, this is what she actually gets (according to their packaging for a horse >1100 lbs (she’s 1300lbs):

Copper from MB 300 mg/day
Zinc from MB 1125 mg/day

(I did have her on the 3:1 for maybe a year at one point, but I felt I got better coat results from feeding separately - yes, I may be crazy/wrong, but I thought her mane ends got more burnt and her end of summer all over sun fade was more pronounced)

From the Equilizer:

Copper 240 mg/day
Zinc 700 mg/day

Is it still worth doubling the MB Cu and Zn?

[JB]

That is a good bit already, thought I’m not clear on the MB amounts. The 3:1 product has 100mg/300mg of cu/zn in a serving - how much are you giving? Regardless, the 300mg cu makes sense if you were feeding a 3x dose, but the 1125 doesn’t

Are you feeding the cu/zn as separate products? That would make more sense. Either way, if those numbers are correct then I doubt adding more would help

[sascha]

@JB

Are you feeding the cu/zn as separate products?

Yes, I’m feeding them separately.

@JB

Either way, if those numbers are correct then I doubt adding more would help

Thanks. They are not expensive supps but every bit saved helps, so I’ll carry on as is.

One more question though. Since I had some palatability issues with a product I’ve since replaced with something more palatable, I went back to mixing supps into beet pulp shreds BEFORE adding hot water. I carried this on due to laziness. Is there a chance that mixing supps (not just Cu/Zn - she’s on all sorts of stuff for allergies) in ahead instead of top dressing could be making some supps less potent?

I can go back to top dressing instead of mixing … but mixing is easier at new barn due to limited feed room space. Hmm, although if I change the way I package, I could still make things fit, it would just be a slightly bigger PITA than it is to chuck BP and all supps into one bag.

[JB]

@sascha

Is there a chance that mixing supps (not just Cu/Zn - she’s on all sorts of stuff for allergies) in ahead instead of top dressing could be making some supps less potent?

The only thing I know of (which doesn’t mean there’s not more) is that if you let Cu and Vit E sit together too long without any oil to protect the E, the E will degrade. Whether that’s significant at all in a few hours I don’t know, but probably not. But if you’re mixing it all in, then hot water gets added, and then it’s fed fairly quickly, I wouldn’t worry, as long as “hot” is still something you could reasonably stick your finger into Anything remotely close to boiling shouldn’t be used anyway

[Simkie]

@sascha

Copper from MB 300 mg/day
Zinc from MB 1125 mg/day

@sascha

Copper 240 mg/day
Zinc 700 mg/day

Fwiw, this is also about where I keep my horses, copper and zinc wise–but they’re quite a bit smaller, all around 1000 pounds. They do not maintain on less, so it doesn’t seem to be a stretch to me that you may also find more effective.

[Pico_Banana]

@JB

The only thing I know of (which doesn’t mean there’s not more) is that if you let Cu and Vit E sit together too long without any oil to protect the E, the E will degrade.

So if I do a week’s worth of supp containers at a time and toss my copper pellets in the same mix of supps as my vit E powder, am I killing my vit E? (Cringing as I write this as have been doing this forever.)

[stargzng386]

Just a note on supplementation if you’re in a drought area (I’m in VA) the grass and hay all has less nutrition and trace minerals than normal because the grass is struggling. I have goats as well that are on a mineral buffet and I can really see their consumption go up in drought years.

[JB]

@Pico_Banana

So if I do a week’s worth of supp containers at a time and toss my copper pellets in the same mix of supps as my vit E powder, am I killing my vit E? (Cringing as I write this as have been doing this forever.)

I can’t say there’s zero risk, but since the cu is pelleted, and it’s only a week, it’s not likely causing much significant degradation, and maybe none.

This whole issue is why many (most?) of the forage balancer companies don’t add Vit E - there’s no oil in them to protect it from the copper. This is why so many people, via a few threads in here and some FB groups, have reported E-deficient horses despite having been on California Trace Plus which has a pretty decent amount of E, but no oil.

[Pico_Banana]

@JB

I can’t say there’s zero risk, but since the cu is pelleted, and it’s only a week, it’s not likely causing much significant degradation, and maybe none.

Good enough for me! Thanks, JB!