Mullen Mouth...update and ? in post # 37

[KarenRO]

EasyStreet,

When it comes to bits, the bottom line, IMHO, is use the one that is most comfortable for your horse. If the mouth is comfy, the horse will be relaxed and will take contact with both reins equally. I personally think (flame suit on!) that many riders place too much emphasis on the type of bit and not enough on whether a bit is appropriate for the horse’s mouth structure, personality, etc.

Case in point - my hot 20-year old mare. Put anything jointed in her mouth and you have a horse that is 99% focused on her mouth and 1% on the rider! She will chew, pull, roll her tongue back, invert, rush. Give her a mullen mouth (I use a stainless steel curved mouthpiece eggbutt) and you have a completely different horse. Her mouth is quiet, she reaches into the contact evenly, she is prompt off the aids, soft, relaxed.

Go with what works and do not worry about what other people think!

[mbm]

btw: i dont have a problem with people using the bit that works best for their horses

i just was agreeing with whomever was saying that a jointed bit is able to influence one side of the mouth at a time, (ie think suppling and requests for flexion etc) whereas a non jointed bit - if you touch one side, the other will also move…

I never hear folks talking about the horse working evenly into both reins . instead they talk about working into the outside rein… so i am curious if those using this phrase ever went thru having the horse on both reins evenly?

[EasyStreet]

@ mbm, I must say that he never hangs on one rein or the other but coming from the hunters he is most happy to go along on a hunter frame. I have been trying to find the bit that he is most comfortable in that allows me to take more contact and yet keep it light! We are having progress but we still have less than half our ride connected, through and on the bit! I think I can in the mullen mouth still ask for flexion with the inside rein and get it. I will look more closely at this tomorrow. I also would still love to know why the USDF does not approve the “Bumpy” mullen mouth bit? What difference do those little lumps make?? Are the concidered harsh?? Thanks all!

[BaroquePony]

I never heard the phrase inside leg to outside rein until I came onto the CoTH BB in 2007 (or so, I think).

I have been trained to put the horse between both hands evenly. Now, getting there is a whole nother story.

[V.JUMP]

[QUOTE=Heinz 57;6021877]

If you want to explore the mechanics of using a mullen mouth, hang the bridle around your neck and place the bit in your hands, held together. Ask a friend to take up the reins and use them as they would on a horse. Feel the difference between left rein, right rein, and both reins.[/QUOTE]

I love this advice. I’m going to try it with all my bits and training aids.

[NOMIOMI1]

[QUOTE=EasyStreet;6022280]
@ mbm, I must say that he never hangs on one rein or the other but coming from the hunters he is most happy to go along on a hunter frame. I have been trying to find the bit that he is most comfortable in that allows me to take more contact and yet keep it light! We are having progress but we still have less than half our ride connected, through and on the bit! I think I can in the mullen mouth still ask for flexion with the inside rein and get it. I will look more closely at this tomorrow. I also would still love to know why the USDF does not approve the “Bumpy” mullen mouth bit? What difference do those little lumps make?? Are the concidered harsh?? Thanks all![/QUOTE]

This all has to do with you hands and allowances they make vs the bit IMO

[NOMIOMI1]

[QUOTE=BaroquePony;6022283]
I never heard the phrase inside leg to outside rein until I came onto the CoTH BB in 2007 (or so, I think).

I have been trained to put the horse between both hands evenly. Now, getting there is a whole nother story.[/QUOTE]

Hmmm

Interesting

My “connection” is with my outside rein, and my inside is just my flexion/bending rein most times, but I ALSO take even contact when straight or working across the diagnol… Funny Ive never thought about the fact that even on the straight away I am working as if I am in a circle most times. Even most diagnol work I am changing my bend and propping over to the other rein…

[EasyStreet]

[QUOTE=NOMIOMI1;6023182]
Hmmm

Interesting

My “connection” is with my outside rein, and my inside is just my flexion/bending rein most times, but I ALSO take even contact when straight or working across the diagnol… Funny Ive never thought about the fact that even on the straight away I am working as if I am in a circle most times. Even most diagnol work I am changing my bend and propping over to the other rein…[/QUOTE]

Yes NONMIOMI!! This Is exactly how I ride…but I am not yet skilled enough to maintain that connection for many strides at a time so I have to check and adjust my position then ride IR to OR and HH to rebalance my horse…we go for a while then lose the connection either becauce I lose balence,to little driving aids for the restricting aids(hands to closed),my body gets stiff and blocks him, ect!..Unfortunatly no eyes on the ground, so it’s always after the fact that I figure out what happened and fix it…but I am working on trying to maintain a connection longer and longer by developing a better feel of what my hands and body are doing when it is going right!

[Freebird]

@BaroquePony;6022283

I never heard the phrase inside leg to outside rein until I came onto the CoTH BB in 2007 (or so, I think).

For real??..I’m not trying to be a smart @ss here - well, maybe just a little - but this phrase has been drilled into my head by every Dressage professional I have ever worked with, learned from, and ridden with.

As for the bit…

I’m not a DQ, and don’t profess to be, but I do know how to start a baby, and have been doing so for many years. I remember one baby I got in for training, that for some reason, was just not happy in my Egg Butt KK Oval Link - my Baby “Go To” bit of choice. Now, I don’t normally use mullen mouths on babies, because I think it can teach them to hang on the bit, so I kept trying other bits, until I just ran out of options. So, we got a Happy Mouth Mullen and voila - the horse loved it. That was when I learned my lesson, that it doesn’t matter what the normal rule of thumb is, or what others are doing, or what you like - as long as the horse is happy.

[mbm]

[QUOTE=V.JUMP;6023157]
I love this advice. I’m going to try it with all my bits and training aids.[/QUOTE]

if you really want to know what the horse feels, put you hands together in front of you, palm to palm and run the bit between your ring and middle fingers and have the person behind you using the reins as normal.

it is quite eye opening to say the least!

as for weight in which rein - for a horse to be ridden straight, it needs to be ridden into both reins equally… only when the horse can do this reliably (and that can take years) will the horse be able to be worked on the outside rein.

this is a step that seems to be missed - quite a bit.

[NOMIOMI1]

[QUOTE=EasyStreet;6023408]
Yes NONMIOMI!! This Is exactly how I ride…but I am not yet skilled enough to maintain that connection for many strides at a time so I have to check and adjust my position then ride IR to OR and HH to rebalance my horse…we go for a while then lose the connection either becauce I lose balence,to little driving aids for the restricting aids(hands to closed),my body gets stiff and blocks him, ect!..Unfortunatly no eyes on the ground, so it’s always after the fact that I figure out what happened and fix it…but I am working on trying to maintain a connection longer and longer by developing a better feel of what my hands and body are doing when it is going right! ;)[/QUOTE]

Without eyes on the ground is hard, but I can say that the best advice Ive had for keeping connection is LONG arms towards the mouth. The longer I ride with my arms the lower my gravity is the better my connection. I change the length of rein often but still long arms.

It saved my life when I went from lessons every week to once in a GREAT while.

[EasyStreet]

Thanks all for the advice…and Nomiomi1…I will think LONG arms to the mouth…but I gotta tell ya, every trainer I have had has told me that my arms are too short for dressage!:eek::(:eek::(

[mbm]

i think people dispense advice willy nilly and if a rider were to take all of it and apply it it would be a mess…

before worrying about your arms, you should worry about having a EVEN feel on both reins, with a soft following hand. the minute people start thinking about arms etc they usually lock up…

so, if you want to worry about your arms (and mine are short too so i get that) the upper arm should be vertical and there should be a direct line from Elbow to bit. the hand should be forward thinking and NEVER backwards feelings. once you can maintain this neutral contact, following the mouth everywhere, then you can start working on more complex contact and feels.

but again, ride with forward thinking hands into EVEN contact, always giving on teh heavier rein.

[NOMIOMI1]

I feel that way about most of the advice on here So right back at ya.

However, the advice I gave above was something that worked for ME and was given to me by other VERY qualified people.

It may not be the same “lingo” you are used to but the advice is still very useful.

[Kmisschuck]

As for the “short arms” comment- my trainer tells me visualize dropping your arms pits down. It’s seems easier for me to feel that then relaxing my shoulders. It will get your arms in the correct position.

And the reason the Mullen mouth bumpy one isn’t legal- is that when measured it is just a little bit too tall, for the “relief requirements”, so almost like a tall port on roof of mouth (although really isn’t in it’s action, but it measures just a little high). Pelhams aren’t legal, kimberwicks either (I think that was asked). My horse was in Mullen kimberwick for h/j. We have tried ALOT of legal bits he didn’t like. Next one up this week is turtle tactio baucher, fingers crossed.

[SonnysMom]

@Kmisschuck

As for the “short arms” comment- my trainer tells me visualize dropping your arms pits down. It’s seems easier for me to feel that then relaxing my shoulders. It will get your arms in the correct position.

And the reason the Mullen mouth bumpy one isn’t legal- is that when measured it is just a little bit too tall, for the “relief requirements”, so almost like a tall port on roof of mouth (although really isn’t in it’s action, but it measures just a little high). Pelhams aren’t legal, kimberwicks either (I think that was asked). My horse was in Mullen kimberwick for h/j. We have tried ALOT of legal bits he didn’t like. Next one up this week is turtle tactio baucher, fingers crossed.

FYI- this thread is 8.5 years old

[SillyHorse]

@SonnysMom

FYI- this thread is 8.5 years old

And? I’m pretty sure the information Kmisschuck provided was asked about and is pertinent today.