Muscle building supplement

[Nickelodian]

One of my guys is 18 this year and has a history of positive epm titers. He’s been treated for epm twice, once about 4 years ago, and again this year as he started to show neurological signs again. He’s semi retired at this point limited to hacking 2-3 days a week and jumping cross rails to 2’. With age, and the epm we have seen some loss of top line, specifically muscling over his back and rump. We have added a program of light Pessoa rig lunge work and lots of tummy lifts and butt tucks. He is also slightly IR and on thyro-L and has a history of limited sweating and on true sweat (which manages him very well). He’s also on a smart pak senior supplement.

He has has never shown any signs of lameness or discomfort, and is happy to do his job.

With all of that history, and where he is today, I am curious if anyone has had luck with the muscle building supplements. Smart pak has a few of different types, but I honestly don’t know where to begin or if they would even work on a horse or his type.

Guidance, thoughts, or advice appreciated.

[Amy3996]

My 18 year old gelding is in a similar work program to what you described. I tried SmartMuscle Mass from SmartPak, but it’s expensive and I didn’t really see the results I was hoping for. I’m a huge fan of AniMed’s Muscle Up Powder. It’s inexpensive, and I truly believe that it works. We took my horse off of it this summer, I noticed a change in his muscle quality right away. He ended up right back on it.

Nutrition plays a huge part in muscle development, though. I top dress his feed with Tribute’s Essential K ration balancer (1 lb/day). The added amino acids really help him maintain his topline.

[IPEsq]

What does he eat?

[raisethebar]

Agreed with the other two posts. Address his feed situation too. Sounds like you have managed his other issues up to this point so for me, I wouldn’t change anything else. You know, the old saying, “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”.

I have used SmartMuscle Mass and I actually did like it. I didn’t think I saw a difference in my horse until I took him off of it. I no longer use it but I know it did help my horse!

[Palm_Beach]

You need to add protein to build muscle. What does your hay test, and what concentrate are you feeding? How much hay and how much concentrate?

[Nickelodian]

He eats nutrena safe choice senior, three meals a day, about 2lbs per meal. Plus 2lbs soaked beet pulp. He is allergic to most all hay, and in Texas our only options are coastal and alfalfa. He gets free choice coastal currently, no alfalfa. He’s plenty fat, but definitely losing his top line.

[jvanrens]

Is he allergic to alfalfa? Maybe switching out some of the coastal with alfalfa might supply some extra protein that will help him out?

[Angela_Freda]

@Palm Beach

You need to add protein to build muscle. What does your hay test, and what concentrate are you feeding? How much hay and how much concentrate?

Agree, protein + work = muscle.
In an older horse that may take more work, more feed and more time.

[Nickelodian]

@jvanrens

Is he allergic to alfalfa? Maybe switching out some of the coastal with alfalfa might supply some extra protein that will help him out?

I just don’t trust the alfalfa sources. He’s not allergic to alfalfa proper, but if there’s even one leaf of Timothy or orchard he looks like a chinelle blanket. Even if they’re stored in the same facility I run in to problems. To complicate matters he chokes, so if he has an inflammatory reaction to an errant stem of hay his throat is tighter leading to a choke. So I avoid the whole situation by sticking with the coastal.

[IPEsq]

You could try Nutramino/TriAmino

[NancyM]

Two additives that I have used in conjunction with exercise and nutrition, are dimethyl glycine (DMG) and creatin powder. Not together, but in different situations. I would tend to the DMG as a favourate to try. I have no idea if either of these “nutricuticals” would be advisable with the problems that your horse is already dealing with, but you could ask your vet. I have an ancient university degree in Biology, Microbiology and Biochemistry, and looked into the action of DMG in the body, and only found it present in the Krebbs Cycle. So how loading it into a system makes a difference I can’t say, and have never found any literature on the subject that makes sense to me. But it does help. The marketing on the bottle says, “Improves muscle function”, and I first used it with a horse who tended to tie up, on the advice of a vet. When that horse blossomed into the best looking horse in the race barn, I used it with a few others as well. There doesn’t seem to be a “down side” to giving it a try. It’s not expensive. Just a scoop of tasteless white powder mixed into the grain ration.

[JB]

@Nickelodian

He eats nutrena safe choice senior, three meals a day, about 2lbs per meal. Plus 2lbs soaked beet pulp. He is allergic to most all hay, and in Texas our only options are coastal and alfalfa. He gets free choice coastal currently, no alfalfa. He’s plenty fat, but definitely losing his top line.

What does “plenty fat” mean? Just right, or could lose a few?

Is there a particular reason you have the beet pulp in there? Is that 2lb soaked or dry weight? And is that each meal, or total?

My first thought is drop the beep, replace it with 1lb alfalfa pellets each feeding, and see what happens after a month or so. Alf pellets are going to be much more “pure” than alf hay, and you can mitigate any contamination risks further if you can get them from a source that has their own alfalfa fields, such as Standlee (IIRC). More protein, more quality protein, and on a dry-weight basis, same calories, roughly, as beet pulp.

Another option is drop the beet pulp, and add a total of 1lb of Nutrena’s Empower Balance ration balancer. That would not be overdoing the nutrition.

All that is assuming you have to and want to stick to Nutrena.

If you can get Triple Crown, I’d also suggest switching to their Sr feed. It’s appreciably lower in NSC - 11.7% vs 20%, and that would be beneficial for his slight IR status.

Have you tested for Cushing’s? Given his age and the topline degredation, I would.

Any of the above changes would improve and increase his protein quality and quantity intake.

If none of them work, then I’d look to adding Nutramino/Tri-Amino. Even just 1/2 a serving may help.

[DoubleDown]

I’ve had good results with Purina Supersport. I’ve also had good results with DMG, but that is more support/recovery than muscle building like SS is.

[Nickelodian]

@JB

What does “plenty fat” mean? Just right, or could lose a few?

Is there a particular reason you have the beet pulp in there? Is that 2lb soaked or dry weight? And is that each meal, or total?

My first thought is drop the beep, replace it with 1lb alfalfa pellets each feeding, and see what happens after a month or so. Alf pellets are going to be much more “pure” than alf hay, and you can mitigate any contamination risks further if you can get them from a source that has their own alfalfa fields, such as Standlee (IIRC). More protein, more quality protein, and on a dry-weight basis, same calories, roughly, as beet pulp.

Another option is drop the beet pulp, and add a total of 1lb of Nutrena’s Empower Balance ration balancer. That would not be overdoing the nutrition.

All that is assuming you have to and want to stick to Nutrena.

If you can get Triple Crown, I’d also suggest switching to their Sr feed. It’s appreciably lower in NSC - 11.7% vs 20%, and that would be beneficial for his slight IR status.

Have you tested for Cushing’s? Given his age and the topline degredation, I would.

Any of the above changes would improve and increase his protein quality and quantity intake.

If none of them work, then I’d look to adding Nutramino/Tri-Amino. Even just 1/2 a serving may help.

Plenty fat as in just right. He doesn’t look over or underweight. The beet pulp is 2lbs dry weight, then soaked, only once per day. He’s on the Nutrena and beet as that is what I think is the best option he has in the boarding environment he is currently in. TC is awesome, but not an option for me in the boarding barn. They offer three Nutrena feeds and beet as their base program. I can get other Nutrena products, but honestly a supplement is easier to obtain/feed (coming from me instead of the feed store).

I believe the cushings test is the same one as the IR test…? If so then yes he’s been tested (push of cortisol every x hours and testing for levels).

Alfalfa pellets have always scared me due to the choke, but perhaps that is a silly concern.

[right_horse_at_the_right_time]

I would test for Cushing For sure.

No, it’s not the same test of the insulin. If he is positive, I would do the stim test but not the dexamethasone, rather the TRH.

I use smart pack muscle mass and have noticed a difference.

[JB]

@Nickelodian

Plenty fat as in just right. He doesn’t look over or underweight. The beet pulp is 2lbs dry weight, then soaked, only once per day. He’s on the Nutrena and beet as that is what I think is the best option he has in the boarding environment he is currently in. TC is awesome, but not an option for me in the boarding barn. They offer three Nutrena feeds and beet as their base program. I can get other Nutrena products, but honestly a supplement is easier to obtain/feed (coming from me instead of the feed store).

Good to hear his actual weight is good. Knowing you don’t have TC as an option, I would still drop the beet pulp (that’s 2000 calories, low protein), and add 2lb alfalfa pellets (also 2000 calories, but much better quality and quantity protein).

OR, drop the beep and increase the Sr by 2lb total - not a preference due to the NSC

OR, drop the beep and add 1lb of the Empower Balance for a slight decrease in calories, but a significant increase in nutrition, particularly protein, and that is just as important.

I believe the cushings test is the same one as the IR test…? If so then yes he’s been tested (push of cortisol every x hours and testing for levels).

Very different tests. Cortisol testing is not the newest standard for IR testing. Glucose response testing is more accurate. the blood glucose is measured to start after a forage-only fast, then insulin administered, then the glucose tested again at the 30 minute mark. Healthy horses have roughly a 50% decrease in glucose in that time. The more IR the horse, the longer it takes for that reading to come down to 50%. I don’t have more details on time frames related to degree of IR

Cushing’s testing should be using the TSH (thyroid stimulating hormone test, aka stim test aka TRH test) right now, until about June. Over the Summer you can do ACTH testing. Definitely NOT dex suppression test for a horse who may be even mildly IR. There’s just no reason to do that dex suppression testing anymore anyway, not with the ACTH and TSH/TRH tests.

Alfalfa pellets have always scared me due to the choke, but perhaps that is a silly concern.

Soak them just like the beep gets soaked

[Nickelodian]

Thanks for the test information. I actually tested him about 8 years ago for IR, and at that time the cortisol test was the one recommended. I think I want to get through the EPM treatment, start him on either the alfalfa pellets or empower balance, and the smart pak muscle mass.

Cushings test can come after we do all of those changes and see where we are. REALLY appreciate the suggestions.

[emricmacy]

I have had AMAZING results with T.H.E. Muscle Mass for my 16yo. When I bought him, he was scrawny with no muscle. I added this supplement, and his shoulders and butt muscles have outgrown his blankets, I need to get the next size up. Truly amazing results within 30 days.

[spacehorse]

Another vote for AniMed Muscle Up. My horse has winters off and also has a history of EPM/tying up. His topline always looks less than impressive. He looks as good as ever keeping him on that all winter. Not expensive at all, either.

He also is getting Omega Max, Vit E/Selenium.