My dogs and I were attacked by a pitt bull this morning (we're OK)

[rugbygirl]

The big dog landing thing is pretty funny. The large dog in question is a loveable misfit. He figured out how to open a deadbolt (lever knobs) and then figured out how to open a basement window. My sister and her husband have gone above and beyond for that dog. He had the terrible misfortune to land on a Pug. I’m told that if it had been a terrier, the vet bills would have been a fraction of what they ended up. Poor pug, but he did recover. If they hadn’t paid the vet bills, I think the big dog would have been destroyed…he has a barely manageable seizure disorder.

The example makes a good litmus test though, because that’s about as close to an “accident” as you can get with a big dog, I think! If there’s no provision for accidentally landing on a Pug, the law is too totalitarian…

[stellaroo]

I’d be ok with more investigation as to pets, because even with a dog running loose which it shouldn’t be, it’s still possible the other animal started it.

In my case, we were walking down the street with my dogs walking on loose leashes, minding our own business. We did not start it. We were blind-sided.

[vacation1]

[QUOTE=stellaroo;8897929]
In my case, we were walking down the street with my dogs walking on loose leashes, minding our own business. We did not start it. We were blind-sided.[/QUOTE]

Good luck convincing anyone with a vicious dog that their “sweet” dog wasn’t provoked. People who own violent dogs are incapable of buying adequate fences, locking the fences they do own, holding onto a leash or remembering to shut the front door - and they never do learn the way to the vet’s office where the little problem-solving needle awaits - but they are very, very good at one thing - they almost always have an exciting amount of exculpatory PhD leve-behaviorist theory to share with you about how this whole bloodbath was natural, normal dog behavior and your dog started it. The worst thing is, authorities will often get into the game - I’ve seen a lot of dog attack/death stories where the cops are standing around theorizing that the killer was ‘being protective’ or ‘feeling threatened.’

[vacation1]

[QUOTE=khall;8897624]
But BSLs don’t work!! Dangerous dog laws do. Target the problem dogs not an entire breed. So ASBjumper, which breeds will you ban? Could be a long list there.[/QUOTE]

If you define ‘problem dogs’ as dogs who bite, you would of course have to ban everything. I’ve seen real jerk dogs of lots of breeds - Labs, Rough Collies, Yorkies, German Shepherds, etc. Dogs that I was hoping wouldn’t get loose or dogs I was actively trying to avoid or dogs I was actively involved with in the boot-to-canine-face sense as it tried to rush my dog for the fortieth time. But it would be ineffective to ban the entire species because a few bad apples in every breed are aggressive and biters. What would NOT be ineffective is strictly controlling - aka, banning - the breeds which have a proven track record of extremely serious and fatal attacks. The hard part would not be figuring out the breeds affected - it would basically be pit bulls and Rottweilers. The hard part would also not be making it clear that ‘pit bull’ includes all the bulldog breeds and the ‘exotic’ mastiffs, as the American Bulldogs, the Cane Corsos, etc. are all highly overrepresented in bad attacks. The hard part would come with the breeds which also have a bad history of being aggressive, but which are also intolerant of bad handling and thus less popular - the Malinois, Dobermans, German Shepherds, Akitas, Chows. These breeds are all very capable of being deadly and there have been some really bad attacks from all of them. But they also seem to be a self-correcting problem in that they don’t put up with the sort of crap handling that the bulldogs will shrug off, and they’ll quickly convince loutish or sentimental owners that no, actually, choke chains and sweet kissy noises will not change my mind that it’s not okay clip my nails and I will nail you good and hard in another - okay, so blood it is.

Myself, I’d be content with simply holding pit owners accountable to a higher standard of ownership. If their pit gets loose, it doesn’t get treated the same as if a Beagle gets loose. If their pit nips a child, it doesn’t get treated the same as if a poodle nips a child. Would that be 100% fair to every single pit bull? Of course not. But the current situation is not even a little bit fair to everyone else.

[rugbygirl]

I’d be ok holding all large breed dog owners to a higher standard. It’s about potential damage. More expensive licenses, minimal tolerance for aggression toward small animals, heftier fines.

If the breed specific part us the sticking point, fine. Make it apply to all large dogs. A mean Yorkie is pretty easy to kick off. A mean bulldog isn’t.

I also wish ownership bans were more enforceable. People sanctioned under the various animal acts in my area seem VERY often to acquire new animals, then end up back in court. I actually personally think the entire justice system in my country needs a revamp with respect to repeat offenders. A very small number of people take up A LOT of court time.

[Sswor]

[QUOTE=vacation1;8897996]

Myself, I’d be content with simply holding pit owners accountable to a higher standard of ownership. If their pit gets loose, it doesn’t get treated the same as if a Beagle gets loose. If their pit nips a child, it doesn’t get treated the same as if a poodle nips a child. Would that be 100% fair to every single pit bull? Of course not. But the current situation is not even a little bit fair to everyone else.[/QUOTE]

Amen to that. We little dog owners are sitting ducks out there and none of the supposed dog activists or rescue organizations seem to care. All they seem to be concerned with is putting a reformed fighting pit bull on every block.

I think rather then move, the best solution to a pit bull problrem is advocating for local, municiple BSL laws.

[RaeHughes]

I have a friend who has three English Mastiffs - 2 male and 1 female. (Her fourth one - the eldest- has recently died.)

English Mastiffs are very very large breed dogs (>100kg if they are of the right breed) who are family pets. Mastiffs were bred as hunting and guarding dogs - you know for castles and manor houses?? (I agree that it can be quite scary when you see them running towards you the first time - you can see all of that history coming right at you.)

Her local council was considering a “bully” breed ban. She took her three beautifully trained and obedient dogs (all with CGC to at least Bronze stage -and she is working towards Gold level in the end) in to a Council meeting and explained quite clearly that these are NOT bully breed dogs. There is absolutely no bull dog or bull terrier in their make-up. She also demonstrated exactly what she thought was required from a large dog owner/handler. My friend considers that, as she likes having these dogs around, and they could do a lot of damage (just by sitting on you!), it is her responsibility to make sure that they are trained, well-socialised and obedient. She manages their interactions with other people, dogs etc.

Although, it is an absolute blast watching her (now) oldest male playing with his best friend - a small BC who turns inside him, runs under him etc. BUT under supervision. They are only left alone with the other mastiffs.

[AliCat]

My 45lb Border Collie mix was mauled in our yard. The neighbors pit ran through a chain link fence to get him. This happened in a very nice town in one of the wealthiest counties in the nation, so I don’t buy into specific demographics and economics of owners or being small enough to be confused for prey. There is no doubt they are more dog aggressive than other breeds.

[Angela_Freda]

[QUOTE=RaeHughes;8898057]
I have a friend who has three English Mastiffs - 2 male and 1 female. (Her fourth one - the eldest- has recently died.)

English Mastiffs are very very large breed dogs (>100kg if they are of the right breed) who are family pets. Mastiffs were bred as hunting and guarding dogs - you know for castles and manor houses?? (I agree that it can be quite scary when you see them running towards you the first time - you can see all of that history coming right at you.)

Her local council was considering a “bully” breed ban. She took her three beautifully trained and obedient dogs (all with CGC to at least Bronze stage -and she is working towards Gold level in the end) in to a Council meeting and explained quite clearly that these are NOT bully breed dogs. There is absolutely no bull dog or bull terrier in their make-up. She also demonstrated exactly what she thought was required from a large dog owner/handler. My friend considers that, as she likes having these dogs around, and they could do a lot of damage (just by sitting on you!), it is her responsibility to make sure that they are trained, well-socialised and obedient. She manages their interactions with other people, dogs etc.

Although, it is an absolute blast watching her (now) oldest male playing with his best friend - a small BC who turns inside him, runs under him etc. BUT under supervision. They are only left alone with the other mastiffs.[/QUOTE]

The unfortunate thing for these breeds/types is that people who do not do what your friend does, who are clueless about dogs, dog behavior, training, socialization, etc… don’t do this work.

My husbands friends girlfriend was attacked by their neighbors pitt who mauled her small chi mix and her as she tried to protect the doglet.
Her hand was shredded and she is lucky there was not tendon damage. She was out of work for weeks with her hand in a cast.
Her doglet was in the ER, collapsed lung, $5k in bills. Lucky to be alive.

This is a dog from a rescue who has also killed it’s ‘brother’ [the other dog this family had] and this dog is routinely at large, digging out of his fenced yard.
Friends GF is hoping her medical insurance will go after the attacking dogs homeowners insurance to cover the bills… making it expensive if not impossible for these people to get insurance going forward.
They refuse to put the dog down, and since the other attacks went unreported there’s nothing AC can do.
I live in a rural community… this is the one cul de sac in my area where people who want sidewalks and their kids to be able to walk to the neighbors flock to [and pay a premium to buy homes there]. Spoiled by one dog that one family is too blind to see could potentially kill the next kid it goes after.
ETA not to mention the other dogs sitting in shelters, languishing in no-kill shelters for years or being put down simply because there are not enough homes for them all. How sad that a home is being used up by a dog this dangerous owned by people this clueless.

The $hitty thing is that animals [the attacker and the attacked] always pay when those less astute or interested in learning how to manage their animals fail to do so. But you can’t govern stupid, so what are you left to do to keep those who are not the problem, who are the victim, safe?

.

.

[ASBJumper]

@Angela Freda;8898287

The unfortunate thing for these breeds/types is that people who do not do what your friend does, who are clueless about dogs, dog behavior, training, socialization, etc… don’t do this work.

The $hitty thing is that animals [the attacker and the attacked] always pay when those less astute or interested in learning how to manage their animals fail to do so. But you can’t govern stupid, so what are you left to do to keep those who are not the problem, who are the victim, safe?

Exactly. The responsible people, the ones who are physically strong enough to restrain the dog, the ones who are smart enough and well-off enough to put the dog into intensive obedience classes, the ones who have enough time to dedicate to carefully and methodically socializing these dogs, make up a tiny percentage of pit/bully breed owners.

You can’t fix stupid. You can’t legislate stupid. You can’t “demographically profile” potential pitbull/mastiff owners and point to the tall, educated white male lawyer and say “yes, you can have one” and then point to the tattooed, overweight, chain-smoking hispanic janitor and say “ermm… no you can’t have one”.
That will NEVER happen. We cannot weed out the bad owners (even less when we’re talking potential owners) from the good, so a blanket ban is all that’s left to feasibly try. It might not work perfectly, but it’s darn well better than nothing.

[JanM]

http://fourleggedfriendsandenemies.blogspot.com/2011/12/even-after-attacking-seven-dogs-womans.html

This dog, Prada, that attacked multiple other dogs, was finally released to the New Orleans rescue on Animal Planet, with a lot of outrage about 'prejudice against pit bulls". The owner was weeping on TV about her innocent puppy, and it was another case of the rescue whining about the restrictions on keeping the animal, and how loving she was. The dog died a year or so later in New Orleans, of a suspected heart attack.

I don’t see how this animal being released did anything for the dogs who don’t attack anyone, and I’m tired of the defense that an animal that attacked multiple other animals is now safe and innocent because it didn’t maul a human. The Pit Bull defenders are not winning any converts with the ‘rescue’ and wanting to adopt out aggressive dogs. In two cases the court had to set restrictions on keeping, and handling the animals, and on both show episodes the rescue people kept saying how sweet and innocent they are.

[JanM]

http://fourleggedfriendsandenemies.blogspot.com/2011/12/even-after-attacking-seven-dogs-womans.html

This animal was ‘rescued’ off ‘death row’ in Nashville, taken in by a rescue in New Orleans on Animal Planet. The whining about the restrictions on keeping the dog was pathetic. There were also many on camera statements about how sweet and harmless she was. This is the second major case involving that rescue, and they were complaining about the restrictions, and talking about how safe the dog was. Can you imagine what would happen to someone that adopted an animal like this, and then someone was attacked.

[Logical]

BSL doesn’t work: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/pit-bull-ban-toronto-dog-bites_us_56c8cd2ce4b0928f5a6c218e

Bad owners will acquire a dog (that could have been a good dog in the right hands) that turns bad. People who want a mean dog will find and make a mean dog. It’s a sad truth.

I am 100% for dangerous dog laws. Those of us, who own larger breeds by choice, should be more aware of the potential damage our dogs can do and act accordingly. Yes, that will not stop the idiots from failing to be responsible owners and as such they should pay that hefty fine and potentially be forced to put their dog down. I said potentially because I don’t think every case of ‘aggressive’ behavior = automatic euthanasia. For example, growing up we had a yellow lab mix. I would take him for runs around the neighborhood. One day, the neighbor who hated all animals swung her trash cart at him. He responded by barking at her. I called him and he came immediately. She reported it and our laws declared him potentially dangerous. He couldn’t go on runs anymore. He had to be muzzled when outside. He couldn’t be left loose in the back yard. It was insane, IMO then and now.

And to restate things I have said before: pit bull type dogs (full or mixed) are NOT for just anyone. Sometimes it is not how they are raised, some dogs are just born mean. And that last sentence goes for all dogs, regardless of breed. I hate that fighting dogs were/are released back into the public. That IMO is a recipe for disaster.

But BSL does not work. For example: In city A the top 5 biting dogs are 1) pit bulls, 2) Rottweilers, 3) German Shepherds, 4) Huskies, 5) Chihuahuas. City A looks at bite + bodily damage as a determining factor therefore eliminating Chihuahuas. So the sixth placed dog, Labrador moves up to the fifth place. Then there is public pressure to ban pit bulls because they are dangerous and kill. So City A passes a ban. Perhaps this ban grandfathers in existing dogs and perhaps it doesn’t. So the years go by and as the number of pit bulls drop so does their bite rate. After 20 years and still experiencing a high number of dog attacks the city redoes the numbers. 1) German Shepherds, 2)Labradors, 3) Dobermans, 4) Rottweilers, 5) Chihuahuas, 6) Border Collies. So does the city now ban German Shepherds? At what point do they realize that it is not the breed but the owner of the dog (and sometimes the dog itself) that is the problem? Not to mention those people who get the outlawed breed and now don’t even attempt to socialize it or take it to the vet.

As an avid dog lover, the above is why I can’t support BSL. Even before I owned APBTs, I didn’t support it. And I have never been able to understand other dog lovers who do. Yes, I get some people are scared of big dogs, certain breeds, etc. (Hey I don’t trust little dogs or Chows, but I don’t feel it is my place to tell someone they can’t have them just because I don’t like them.) But that doesn’t justify trying to fix a problem with the wrong solution. The problem is bad dogs with bad owners. The problem is bad owners with dogs that could have been good. Destroy the bad dogs and hit the bad owner’s wallet deep enough that they should pause before getting another animal and hopefully choose not to. 3 strikes your out against bad owners too. Put some jail time in the equation.

In my neck of the woods, the most ill-mannered, poorly trained dogs are those under 20lbs. They have owners who are blissfully ignorant and think everyone just loves their fluffy mop of a dog. Just spend one day sitting in my vet’s office reception room and have a heart attack 100x over watching the owners of these little dogs allow their little dog to run up to larger dogs. Then when larger dog growls, small dog owner snatches up their dog and glares at large dog owner, like it is their fault. But small dog owner will allow their small dog to do it to the next large dog that walks in. Gawd, I hated it when I was in there with my Boston Terrier mix. Anything smaller than her is edible in her mind. I would repeatedly tell small dog owner to keep their dog away, while I was strangle-holding my dog. Now, she waits in the car and we use the back door. Each area is different. Bad owners exist everywhere and own all types and breeds of d

[sisu27]

@vacation1;8897996

The hard part would come with the breeds which also have a bad history of being aggressive, but which are also intolerant of bad handling and thus less popular - the Malinois, Dobermans, German Shepherds, Akitas, Chows. These breeds are all very capable of being deadly and there have been some really bad attacks from all of them. But they also seem to be a self-correcting problem in that they don’t put up with the sort of crap handling that the bulldogs will shrug off, and they’ll quickly convince loutish or sentimental owners that no, actually, choke chains and sweet kissy noises will not change my mind that it’s not okay clip my nails and I will nail you good and hard in another - okay, so blood it is.

You make an interesting point here that I don’t think anyone else has. Perhaps this is why that breed has “done well” in the wrong hands. I hadn’t really thought of that. The fact that Dobes in my case do not suffer fools is the reason I end up with some very nice dogs that are surrendered no fault of their own. If the proposed laws suggested here existed than those dogs wouldn’t have had a chance.

To those suggesting animal aggressive dogs should be on the “shit-list” what happens in the following scenario which just happened a few nights ago? My Jagdterrier was on the patio minding her own business (I live in the country) and I heard her growling from the kitchen. I ran outside and saw an adorable submissive Beagle about to get herself into big trouble. I managed to scoop up my dog in time but it was seconds away from being a bloodbath. When I first got that dog there would have been no warning and it would have been all over before I even knew what was going on. I have installed a delay. Point is if I had been upstairs and the worst had occurred why would my dog be at fault for doing anything other than what she naturally does? She never leaves the property.

Scenario 2. One of my Dobes had a jaw injury. I took him to UofG vet school (he was already a regular because he was in the DCM study). They had a specialist that was recommended. He wants to x-ray. I ask that I help him to manipulate dog on table. He says no. I say muzzle him. Dog had no previous issues with anyone at all. Would lay on table for cardiologist and snooze while getting EKG etc. I just know that when you chest a Dobe to flip over they don’t love it. Anyhow I wait and wait. Vet comes roaring into waiting room and tells me to “come get my f’ing dog”. Seriously. I ask what went on and he tells me he bit the student/tech on the face. Well how the hell could that happen with a muzzled dog?!?!? I leave. I feel awful. I get a call from the cardiology department telling me what happened as per tech. He sedated dog, didn’t muzzle, didn’t wait for sedation to do much, had tech hold the dogs face/collar and he attempted to forcefully flip dog onto his side onto the table. Dog bit techs face. It was a bad bite and required plastic surgery. She did not hold the dog responsible. I don’t know what happened to the vet but I hope he was fired. Should that dog have then been added to this list? Should he have been euthanized? He never had another incident of aggression of any sort for the rest of his life.

I am for each case being examined and in some all of the above actions taken. To make it the law preemptively for certain breeds is insane.

As far as Schutzhund/IPO dogs being on this list I completely disagree. The basis for the sport is OBEDIENCE. Then tracking then protection work. Some clubs are garbage and create problems no doubt but well trained dogs are the last ones to be out and about menacing you while you walk your dogs. Those are not the dogs you people are talking about.

[Logical]

[QUOTE=JanM;8898490]
http://fourleggedfriendsandenemies.blogspot.com/2011/12/even-after-attacking-seven-dogs-womans.html

This animal was ‘rescued’ off ‘death row’ in Nashville, taken in by a rescue in New Orleans on Animal Planet. The whining about the restrictions on keeping the dog was pathetic. There were also many on camera statements about how sweet and harmless she was. This is the second major case involving that rescue, and they were complaining about the restrictions, and talking about how safe the dog was. Can you imagine what would happen to someone that adopted an animal like this, and then someone was attacked.[/QUOTE]

Yeah that dog needs to be destroyed, like yesterday.

[JanM]

http://cravendesires.blogspot.com/2010/12/tia-torres-new-best-friend-otis.html

This is the Northern California case, and it definitely has a slanted point of view, but I looked at the local paper, and it follows what was reported about the animals, and owners’ previous history (which the owner and his mother lied about on camera on the TV show). This dog should have been destroyed, and I hope the poor man who barely escaped dying, sued the mother (homeowner), and the dog’s owner for every penny they had.

[rugbygirl]

[QUOTE=sisu27;8898494]
You make an interesting point here that I don’t think anyone else has. Perhaps this is why that breed has “done well” in the wrong hands. I hadn’t really thought of that. The fact that Dobes in my case do not suffer fools is the reason I end up with some very nice dogs that are surrendered no fault of their own. If the proposed laws suggested here existed than those dogs wouldn’t have had a chance.

To those suggesting animal aggressive dogs should be on the “shit-list” what happens in the following scenario which just happened a few nights ago? My Jagdterrier was on the patio minding her own business (I live in the country) and I heard her growling from the kitchen. I ran outside and saw an adorable submissive Beagle about to get herself into big trouble. I managed to scoop up my dog in time but it was seconds away from being a bloodbath. When I first got that dog there would have been no warning and it would have been all over before I even knew what was going on. I have installed a delay. Point is if I had been upstairs and the worst had occurred why would my dog be at fault for doing anything other than what she naturally does? She never leaves the property.

Scenario 2. One of my Dobes had a jaw injury. I took him to UofG vet school (he was already a regular because he was in the DCM study). They had a specialist that was recommended. He wants to x-ray. I ask that I help him to manipulate dog on table. He says no. I say muzzle him. Dog had no previous issues with anyone at all. Would lay on table for cardiologist and snooze while getting EKG etc. I just know that when you chest a Dobe to flip over they don’t love it. Anyhow I wait and wait. Vet comes roaring into waiting room and tells me to “come get my f’ing dog”. Seriously. I ask what went on and he tells me he bit the student/tech on the face. Well how the hell could that happen with a muzzled dog?!?!? I leave. I feel awful. I get a call from the cardiology department telling me what happened as per tech. He sedated dog, didn’t muzzle, didn’t wait for sedation to do much, had tech hold the dogs face/collar and he attempted to forcefully flip dog onto his side onto the table. Dog bit techs face. It was a bad bite and required plastic surgery. She did not hold the dog responsible. I don’t know what happened to the vet but I hope he was fired. Should that dog have then been added to this list? Should he have been euthanized? He never had another incident of aggression of any sort for the rest of his life.

I am for each case being examined and in some all of the above actions taken. To make it the law preemptively for certain breeds is insane.

As far as Schutzhund/IPO dogs being on this list I completely disagree. The basis for the sport is OBEDIENCE. Then tracking then protection work. Some clubs are garbage and create problems no doubt but well trained dogs are the last ones to be out and about menacing you while you walk your dogs. Those are not the dogs you people are talking about.[/QUOTE]

If you want to have an attack dog club, where one of the skills you get the dog to learn is to attack a person. Ok. I’ll play along. The first time you fail to impress upon a member how potentially dangerous this is, and that member’s dog hurts a human…you all lose my respect and tolerance.

The only Schutzhund people I’ve ever met, again, we’re the ones who seemed excited that I was afraid of their dog, and blamed the person their dog attacked. Fun. I do agree that this is a locally solved problem though. No reason somewhere with a well run, well behaved Schutzhund club that polices their own members should be punished. In my area, where they have proven to fail in this area, I’d support a mandatory muzzle and leash policy.

You can have obedience without training attacks.

[rugbygirl]

[QUOTE=Logical;8898493]
BSL doesn’t work: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/pit-bull-ban-toronto-dog-bites_us_56c8cd2ce4b0928f5a6c218e

Bad owners will acquire a dog (that could have been a good dog in the right hands) that turns bad. People who want a mean dog will find and make a mean dog. It’s a sad truth.

I am 100% for dangerous dog laws. Those of us, who own larger breeds by choice, should be more aware of the potential damage our dogs can do and act accordingly. Yes, that will not stop the idiots from failing to be responsible owners and as such they should pay that hefty fine and potentially be forced to put their dog down. I said potentially because I don’t think every case of ‘aggressive’ behavior = automatic euthanasia. For example, growing up we had a yellow lab mix. I would take him for runs around the neighborhood. One day, the neighbor who hated all animals swung her trash cart at him. He responded by barking at her. I called him and he came immediately. She reported it and our laws declared him potentially dangerous. He couldn’t go on runs anymore. He had to be muzzled when outside. He couldn’t be left loose in the back yard. It was insane, IMO then and now.

And to restate things I have said before: pit bull type dogs (full or mixed) are NOT for just anyone. Sometimes it is not how they are raised, some dogs are just born mean. And that last sentence goes for all dogs, regardless of breed. I hate that fighting dogs were/are released back into the public. That IMO is a recipe for disaster.

But BSL does not work. For example: In city A the top 5 biting dogs are 1) pit bulls, 2) Rottweilers, 3) German Shepherds, 4) Huskies, 5) Chihuahuas. City A looks at bite + bodily damage as a determining factor therefore eliminating Chihuahuas. So the sixth placed dog, Labrador moves up to the fifth place. Then there is public pressure to ban pit bulls because they are dangerous and kill. So City A passes a ban. Perhaps this ban grandfathers in existing dogs and perhaps it doesn’t. So the years go by and as the number of pit bulls drop so does their bite rate. After 20 years and still experiencing a high number of dog attacks the city redoes the numbers. 1) German Shepherds, 2)Labradors, 3) Dobermans, 4) Rottweilers, 5) Chihuahuas, 6) Border Collies. So does the city now ban German Shepherds? At what point do they realize that it is not the breed but the owner of the dog (and sometimes the dog itself) that is the problem? Not to mention those people who get the outlawed breed and now don’t even attempt to socialize it or take it to the vet.

As an avid dog lover, the above is why I can’t support BSL. Even before I owned APBTs, I didn’t support it. And I have never been able to understand other dog lovers who do. Yes, I get some people are scared of big dogs, certain breeds, etc. (Hey I don’t trust little dogs or Chows, but I don’t feel it is my place to tell someone they can’t have them just because I don’t like them.) But that doesn’t justify trying to fix a problem with the wrong solution. The problem is bad dogs with bad owners. The problem is bad owners with dogs that could have been good. Destroy the bad dogs and hit the bad owner’s wallet deep enough that they should pause before getting another animal and hopefully choose not to. 3 strikes your out against bad owners too. Put some jail time in the equation.

In my neck of the woods, the most ill-mannered, poorly trained dogs are those under 20lbs. They have owners who are blissfully ignorant and think everyone just loves their fluffy mop of a dog. Just spend one day sitting in my vet’s office reception room and have a heart attack 100x over watching the owners of these little dogs allow their little dog to run up to larger dogs. Then when larger dog growls, small dog owner snatches up their dog and glares at large dog owner, like it is their fault. But small dog owner will allow their small dog to do it to the next large dog that walks in. Gawd, I hated it when I was in there with my Boston Terrier mix. Anything smaller than her is edible in her mind. I would repeatedly tell small dog owner to keep their dog away, while I was strangle-holding my dog. Now, she waits in the car and we use the back door. Each area is different. Bad owners exist everywhere and own all types and breeds of d[/QUOTE]

20 lbs is pushing it, that’s a lot of potential damage. Dogs under 15 lbs, I kind of don’t care how ill mannered they are, it’s not often a human safety issue.

Basically, if a hawk can carry off your dog easily, I don’t care much about it. If it’s running loose or off leash, whatever happens to it is the owners fault.

As awful as an aggressive large dog in the dog park is, an aggressive small dog is awful too… But he’s likely going to pay the real price. And sooooo many aggressive dog owners blame small dogs when their dogs attack. It’s kind of gross how automatic it is, to blame the mauled teacup. My dogs were “attacked” by a Westie. It was an awful little thing. My dogs weighed 120lbs and 100lbs, and ignored the little terror. Until it started walking under Sunny and biting her tail, then she walked away and lifted her tail, and that was plenty of time for the responsible owners to intervene. Me and the Westie’s owner. Since we all care about our dogs.

[skyon]

[QUOTE=sisu27;8898494]
As far as Schutzhund/IPO dogs being on this list I completely disagree. The basis for the sport is OBEDIENCE. Then tracking then protection work. Some clubs are garbage and create problems no doubt but well trained dogs are the last ones to be out and about menacing you while you walk your dogs. Those are not the dogs you people are talking about.[/QUOTE]

If a dog has been trained to attack a human through any kind of organization then it needs to be reported. Period.

[sisu27]

Not saying it isn’t out there but I have yet to hear about an IPO dog mauling someone to death.

An IPO dog that has any titles has had to pass an initial temperament test. They cannot be fearful or aggressive. Those dogs are not suitable to continue on…they wash out.

If you know of idiots that claim to participate in Schutzhund/IPO and their dogs display any of those flaws the clubs and associations they are members of are a farce. That should be reported. Agreed.

A titled IPO dog is WAY down the list of dogs that would scare me. Those dogs are an infinitesimal percentage of the overall dog population anyhow. Your average dumb dumb Golden is more dangerous because they are often untrained in any way, common and poorly bred.

Who’s paying for all this new legislation anyhow? More children are probably killed by their own parents then dogs in North America. Certainly in car accidents. I can’t go a day without seeing some soccer mom with a van full of kiddies hauling ass and driving like a maniac in Toronto. Blows my mind. I know…unrelated etc etc but in the grand scheme I can’t get hysterical enough to warrant any big changes when it comes to dogs.

We need better enforcement of existing laws. Maybe broaden the meaning of some. Punish the owners of “problem dogs”. Severely. I don’t dispute that owning certain breeds is like owning a loaded gun. Potentially lethal. Charge people as such. Put them in jail. Ban them from owning animals. That suits me fine as a responsible dog owner as it would never affect me or my dogs.