My dogs and I were attacked by a pitt bull this morning (we're OK)

[animaldoc]

Just like a TB will respond instinctually in different way than a QH (in broad generalities), breeding/training/handling/ownership can make both bomb-proof, kid-safe etc. (whatever metric you want to use). There are generations of breeding that determine the first response from that little lizard part of their brains that reacts before thinking.

A Pit Bull (while not a breed per se) will also always have a different response instinctually than a Maltese, or a St. Bernard, Great Dane, Terrier etc. Breeding/training/ownership/handling can make all those (except the mentally ill, of which there are some) into “good dogs.”

During the last week of my JRTs first obedience class, the trainer brought in a stuffed dancing chicken (you know the ones that play annoying music) and set it off to expose the dogs to a strange stimuli. Some dogs sat there and looked confused, some cowered behind their chairs. My JRT? Tried to attack it - PREY. The class laughed at the difference between the other dogs and the typical terrier.

I am willing to bet that the dog that attacked the OP had never been to an obedience class (or taught anything at home), wasn’t exercised regularly, wasn’t socialized, etc. etc. etc. Even if it had, it would still have responded differently than a Bichon or something, but may have remained under control.

Nature is important (as I have seen with my pets/horses AND my kids, LOL), but nurture is important too for either enhancing or downplaying natural tendencies. It’s not one or the other…

OP- hope you and your dog are OK, and hope animal control is taking you seriously.

[skyon]

[QUOTE=toady123;8886166]
The problem is bad owners with inappropriate breeds - you can’t say the dog is not part of the equation. Pit bulls and other assertive breeds can be a disaster if the are not properly managed. Add to the fact that breeds like pits are bred indescrimintantly, often with aggressiveness as the goal and it’s a recipe for disaster.
.[/QUOTE]

Agree.

[ASBJumper]

[QUOTE=CanadianTrotter;8886252]
Agree 100%.

I feel bad for the breed, they didn’t ask for what has happened to them. Because of bad breeding/conditioning/ownership, they have basically become an unstable loaded weapon. The ban most definitely serves the greater good.

Sorry you went through this Stella and glad it wasn’t worse than what it was.[/QUOTE]

I agree also.

I have no doubt whatsoever that there are plenty of pitbulls out there that would never harm a fly. Absolutely. That doesn’t change my opinion of the breed as a whole. That’s like arguing against a “high-energy” label because you happen to have a border collie that’s pretty chill. That’s all well and good, but it doesn’t apply to the majority of the breed, unfortunately.

And to those who keep pointing out that breed bans don’t lower the incidence of bites overall - no, they don’t. What they HAVE been proven to reduce, however, are the number of severe maulings or deaths. But because that is not a commonly kept statistic, it’s easy to sweep it under the rug, much harder to show evidence of.

I have no concern about my risk of being bitten by any old dog - I accept that risk. Just like I accept the risk that being around horses means someone’s horse might kick me or bite me (which has happened!). But if I knew there was a breed of horse out there that was particularly prone to going ballistic and pinning people down and not letting go (however rare incidences of it might be), you can bet i’d be supportive of banning that breed of horse at boarding barns everywhere.

The loaded gun analogy is a good one. It sucks for the breed, I agree, it did not ask to be selectively bred for certain traits, but… it happened.

[Sswor]

[QUOTE=animaldoc;8886364]
During the last week of my JRTs first obedience class, the trainer brought in a stuffed dancing chicken (you know the ones that play annoying music) and set it off to expose the dogs to a strange stimuli. Some dogs sat there and looked confused, some cowered behind their chairs. My JRT? Tried to attack it - PREY. The class laughed at the difference between the other dogs and the typical terrier.[/QUOTE]

Yes, typical JRT. If you want a livestock guardian dog, JRT is not a good choice. If you want something to hang around the farm and eradicate vermin, JRT is an excellent choice.

Everyone who is even remotely educated about domestic animals knows, understands, and agrees that different breed types have and display different behaviors. Everyone except, it seems, pit bull fanatics.

[skyon]

[QUOTE=Sswor;8886473]
Yes, typical JRT. If you want a livestock guardian dog, JRT is not a good choice. If you want something to hang around the farm and eradicate vermin, JRT is an excellent choice.
.[/QUOTE]

Craziest sport watched - it may have been with Mike Rowe? People who take JRTs to dumpsters to eradicate rats. They tally the count at the end.

Someone shakes the dumpster - rats fly out and JRTs/terrier mixes lit up and took them out with one shake.

Wild to watch but kind of neat since but the dogs were so obviously bred to be ratters and to kill something with a hold and shake.

Ha. Found it: [URL=“https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXTiYQzzbB8”]Unlike Anything I have Ever Seen

Adding - after looking at this again - the dogs are terrier mixes

[GraceLikeRain]

Most dogs for better or for worse seem to show their colors early in life.

I’ve now known two high level sport owners who owned rescued pitties with horrific stories. In both situations their very well socialized, rolls on their belly for another dog, sweet as the day is long pit has broken out of a crate and absolutely slaughtered another dog in the household.

The first broke out of a crate and into the crate of a much smaller dog. The other broke out of a crate, into a bedroom, and into the crate of another pit.

These dogs were titled and one was a therapy dog. I just haven’t heard of that happening with any other breed/type. Perhaps it does? I don’t live breed shaming but experiences like these really scare me and make me wonder why if it isn’t a breed thing, these things are happening with dogs that are in the most incredible homes.

[Sswor]

I have an acquaintance who’s rescue pit did the same, Grace. Twice. First time killed a chihuahua while “just playing”. Overlooked that as it could have been an accident (shook Chi like a toy–except that they had lived together apparently peacefully for months). Second time while friend wasn’t home, attacked a golden it had also lived together with peacefully for months. Golden was all torn up, required 4 figure vet work to put back together again. The house was a bloodbath.

Last I heard, acquaintance was trying to rehome the pit. I do not understand the insanity and frankly I think it’s a supremely unethical thing to do. Like, here, it killed/maimed too many of my pets, time for it to go kill/maim someone elses. Dog needs to be culled.

[red_mares]

I didn’t see any JRTs on the video, saw a couple Bedlingtons and some mutts.

I had a JRT and know they are aggressive little sh!ts. When JRTs start killing PEOPLE in numbers that pitbulls/pit bull crosses do, I will support a ban on them as well.

I swear the one my parents had thought Golden Retrievers tasted like chicken. She zero’d in on them at obedience classes. However, at less than 15#, it was easy to contain her advances.

[skyon]

I think I automatically thought JRT since they have that rep, but the video is pretty much all kinds of terrier mixes.

My problem with pits is when people don’t respect what they were bred for and deny they were used to bait bulls, kill other dogs.

Breeding is a problem and the fad of wanting them and American bulldogs along with crosses is popular.

Rescues and A/C have to deal with it, but rescues and non profits who take donations and tax breaks to then pass them out to people that may not have a full understanding of that dogs history and breeding, just to claim it as rescued are as bad as the breeders.

[ASBJumper]

Yep - that’s the thing. Those of us in favour of a breed ban are certainly NOT going to deny that there are plenty of breeds more likely to bite than a pittie.

I.don’t.care. What frightens me is not the LIKELIHOOD of a bite (any bite), but the possibility, however slight, of a severe mauling requiring hospitalization or worse.

I’ll take my chances with most dogs, thanks - but an animal who will attack and not let go, trying to rip me to shreds? Um… that’s where I cry uncle. :eek:

And I do think restrictions regarding other large and powerful breeds wouldn’t be remiss, either… AFAIC, the only reason Cane Corsos/Presa Canarios and Bull Mastiffs have escaped breed bans around here is because of their extreme rarity. They make me just as nervous, though…

[gypsymare]

I worked as a vet tech north of Orlando for awhile about 10 years ago, so I got to handle a lot of dogs. Now, my interactions were primarily with good dog owners coming in for yearly vaccinations and a variety of breeds. Of that pool of good owners with their family pets I did not encounter one aggressive Pitt. Every single one was a love and tolerant of normal procedures including fecal sampling up the bum and blood draws. Even the one feral brought in for heart worm treatment stoically accepted the needles in her back.

Now, LABRADORS. Holy cow. There were several labs and lab mixes that needed to be muzzled. the only other dog of concern was an old Dobie but he was more stiff and grumbly than anything.

A cop friend of mine was severely bitten on several occasions by his working Malinois who have earned the nickname in protection cirlcles as “Malligators”.

They are a large breed dog with strong jaws but I do not believe they are inherently any more aggressive than a Labrador, Rottweiler, Doberman, GSD, etc. They do attract lousy owners but if they are banned I only see another breed stepping up to take its place.

[JanM]

My view is that there are a lot of people who get dogs they won’t exercise properly, train them, contain them, and after the first weeks of ownership, they neglect the animal.

As a local pet supply and training owner says, “If you don’t train them, don’t blame them”. My added thought is if you don’t know about a breed, don’t have room for them on your property, and in your life, then get a stuffed animal instead. And if your animal attacks humans, or other animals, get rid of the animal. I’m sick of people making excuses about the cause of an attack, and repeated attacks, and do nothing to prevent further attacks. I also don’t understand why cities and counties don’t have aggressive dog laws they enforce. And the rehoming of aggressive animals infuriates me. If I was attacked by someone’s animal, and it had a bite history, then I would sue them into poverty, and they would deserve it.

When I lived in New Mexico a child was horribly maimed by four Rottweillers that had run loose together for a long time. There were two owners, and they still wanted the dogs back after the child was attacked, in his own backyard. It was horrible, and they obviously didn’t care about the child or anyone else that could be killed or injured.

[MustangSavvy]

It is the owner not the dog. Proper socialization and training are very important! BSL does not work. Period. I might add that Pit Bill is not a actual breed of dog, and most people cannot properly identify these breeds.

[red_mares]

I forgot the only ones who can properly identify pit bulls are pit bull enthusiasts who have the sweetest dogs that would never kill a fly.

The rest of us are incapable identifying one and the dogs that attacked the OP are not actual pit bulls because pit bulls never attack.

[skyon]

I am going to try and leave this topic with this.

If you are in complete denial of a dogs original purpose in breeding, you are also in denial of signals of behavior and traits in that dog that could potentially lead to a complete disaster.

People want dogs based on looks and trends. That’s always been a problem and probably more so with pits since they can be an easy dog to keep. Probably their curse as well.

[sisu27]

I also live in Ontario and haven’t really noticed any fewer now than before the ban.

I agree with you that certain breeds are not a good choice for many people but breed bans are proven to not be the answer. They are also a slippery slope. I am a Doberman person and given that will never support breed legislation. I hate to sound like a person that DOESN’T support restrictive firearms laws because I do but if you make them “illegal” only the worst people with the worst intentions would go out of their way to have them.

The lethal dog list by the CDC does list Pitts obviously but there are many other breeds up there that if/when they attack also tend to kill people. St Bernards and Dobes are 2 others.

The stats on aggressive dogs lists a very different group of breeds. None of them Pitts or Dobes. Many are smaller breeds that just can’t do that much damage. Luckily.

I own, pound for pound the most dangerous breed of dog on earth. She is 20 lbs. Its a Jagdterrier. Google them. No fear and no self preservation. I manage her carefully and she is a pretty solid citizen now but she has attacked many other dogs of all sizes and breeds. She attacks to kill. Not exaggerating. She has never ever shown aggression to humans. Should she be put down? Of course not. It is up to me to make sure she doesn’t hurt even one more dog. Her original owners knew enough to find her a more suitable home. Sadly most bad dog owners don’t know enough or give a $hit.

I don’t know the solution. Its sad and the dogs always lose. Needing a license to breed and own all dogs should be a thing. It never will be though.

To the OP I am sorry this happened to you and your dog. Awful. I would have had a difficult time not taking care of my dog then coming back for that poor excuse for a human…

[red_mares]

[QUOTE=sisu27;8886717]

I own, pound for pound the most dangerous breed of dog on earth. She is 20 lbs. Its a Jagdterrier. Google them. No fear and no self preservation. I manage her carefully and she is a pretty solid citizen now but she has attacked many other dogs of all sizes and breeds. She attacks to kill. Not exaggerating. She has never ever shown aggression to humans. Should she be put down? Of course not. It is up to me to make sure she doesn’t hurt even one more dog. Her original owners knew enough to find her a more suitable home. Sadly most bad dog owners don’t know enough or give a $hit. [/QUOTE]

She sounds like a good candidate for the needle to me. Sounds like both you and her previous owners are part of the problem.

[ASBJumper]

[QUOTE=red mares;8886727]
She sounds like a good candidate for the needle to me. Sounds like both you and her previous owners are part of the problem.[/QUOTE]

I’m not as “matter of fact” about it, but… I have to agree.

So… it’s ok that your small dog attacked a bunch of other animals, because they weren’t people or small children? Seriously?

The line needs to be drawn much, much sooner. The previous owner should’ve put the animal down, not given it to you. Sorry.

While it’s wonderful that you have managed to prevent any further attacks (so far), your animal is a ticking timebomb, by your own admission.

And I live in Ottawa - there are most definitely less pitties visible these days, and the one I saw a few months ago out and about (first one i’ve seen in years!) was muzzled. Which is great. Because it’s the law. And it should be.

[Foxtrot_s]

Caesar Milan’s dog Daddy was not allowed to go into Ontario because of his breed when he did clinic there.

Montreal has just passed a law banning them except under certain circumstances, but it is on hold until after it has been to court. Animal rights are
fighting the ban right now.

I agree - the owners have the most to be responsible for…some work at making the dogs aggressive and are the most lax on collars, i.d. and fencing.

[GoodTimes]

I’m on the fence regarding breed bans. However, pit bulls are one of the few types or breeds, whatever you want to call them that make me nervous.
The strength that they have is unlike most other dogs, they are built like tanks. I’ve got a 90lb dog, but she’s goofy and clumsy. At 130lbs I could knock her off her feet and pin her if I had too. I doubt I could do that with a pit even half that size. Never mind the difference in bite force.

Yes of course training and socialization can go a long way, but that’s half the problem. And yes most of the pit people in Ontario just went out and bought cane corsos, rotties, etc. After the ban.