My dogs and I were attacked by a pitt bull this morning (we're OK)

[Marshfield]

[QUOTE=Incantation;8890053]
I would have a big problem with this in the case of male giant breed dogs. Even if they will never be bred, recommendations now are to keep them intact to greatly decrease the risk of osteosarcoma and ligament rupture.

Make owners responsible for their pets behaviors.

There is a “rescue” in CT that adopted out a deaf pitbull to friends of mine. They asked many questions about the dog to make sure she would be a good fit with their current pack. Within 3 days the dog began showing signs of resource guarding, with culminated in the dog biting one of the new owners multiple times, when she tried to take a bone from the dog.(yes, they were not prepared to deal with the issue, and had asked about it - were told, we have not seen that).

They took the dog to their vet in the am and he called the rescue. Turns out the dog has a bite history with both dogs and people in three different homes. When they spoke to the rescue later in the day, they were promised the dog would be sent to a trainer until she was rehabbed. They donated extra $$$ towards her training and let the rescue keep the adoption fee, because they really liked the dog.

A couple of weeks later, the dog shows up as available again, with a statement to the effect of, “previsions adopter said dog showed some resource guarding issues, but we have not seen that in foster”.

IMO, the people who run the rescue should be charged with assault and battery WHEN that dog bites again.

Friends are now fostering (for another rescue) the sweetest pit mix in the world. She has trust issues with people, but has wonderful energy and great social skills with dogs. If it weren’t for the fact that rescues refuse to adopt to people with an intact animal, I would adopt her in a heartbeat.[/QUOTE]

I’d be suing for the rescue for payment of all medical bills. And outing them on every form of media possible. I’d also report them to whomever oversees rescues in the state. The dog never should have been adopted out to your friends.

[rugbygirl]

I think one of the biggest problems in Ontario is that it was a province wide ban. There is a big difference between rural and urban areas. You can keep ponies and cows in the country too! Not in the city!

I do think that animal legislation is best dealt with at the community level. I also think the Montreal proposal was stupid, and again reiterate that if they have a dog attack problem, apply restrictions to all dogs, or sensibly, all pets with sufficient size to cause death to adults. If that means people in the city can’t own giant breed dogs…too bad. I have no sympathy for dog owners who put their “right” to pet ownership above responsibility to other humans in the community. Desperate to keep owning dogs? YOU create accountability with your fellow dog owners. I want a pet raccoon, I’m not allowed to have one of those either. I can suck it up, or decide to acquire one illegally. All the law does is clearly define the sanctions that can imposed upon me. Current vicious dog sanctions are ineffective and pathetic.

[rugbygirl]

Oh also, mandatory spay/neuter is kind of a misnomer. You can keep an intact animal under most of these proposals, just not take it to a public area. So, there’s always that. You and your fellow intact dog enthusiasts could buy a private facility for your dog’s to play at. Preferably with a prison style security fence, about 80% of the people I know who keep intact dogs are complete morons who shouldn’t own plants, let alone the large breed, horrible canine citizens they subject the rest of us to. Of course, they’ll lecture anyone on why they are responsible.

[skyon]

[QUOTE=beowulf;8890045]
And here you have yet ANOTHER source saying:

1. Dogs are easily misidentified/mislabeled in shelters
2. Dogs cannot be reliably identified on phenotype alone (DNA test needed)
3. Volume of bites directly proportionate to huge population, yet statistically equivalent or less to other breeds

The article about the Montreal attack is telling - “well wait a minute it might not be a pitbull and we aren’t releasing the picture soooo”…

…[/QUOTE]

But again, the hysteria goes both ways. Pits and Guard dog breeds get mislabeled as needed - one minute they can’t be identified, the next someone brags about how they have that same dog as a loving pit they rescued from a shelter.

And again - the thirty people killed so far this year (along with what ever stats are there for injuries) should not get swept aside in order for the hysteria to promote pits as loving family dogs every where. Pretty sick of seeing dressed up pits kissing babies.

If you really want to be destructive to a breed, promote them licking babies, toddlers and see how many fools follow.

Stats here deserve as much recognition regarding people in “dog” attacks as do books comparing them to automobile crashes.

http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities-2016.php

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=skyon;8890129]
But again, the hysteria goes both ways. Pits and Guard dog breeds get mislabeled as needed - one minute they can’t be identified, the next someone brags about how they have that same dog as a loving pit they rescued from a shelter.

And again - the thirty people killed so far this year (along with what ever stats are there for injuries) should not get swept aside in order for the hysteria to promote pits as loving family dogs every where. Pretty sick of seeing dressed up pits kissing babies.

If you really want to be destructive to a breed, promote them licking babies, toddlers and see how many fools follow.

Stats here deserve as much recognition regarding people in “dog” attacks as do books comparing them to automobile crashes.

http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities-2016.php[/QUOTE]

It does go both ways, I agree, and yes, the deaths should not be swept under the rug.

I was waiting for someone to put up that site. DogsBite.Org is not an unbiased publication and should not be used as a source for anything credible.

[skyon]

[QUOTE=beowulf;8890143]
It does go both ways, I agree, and yes, the deaths should not be swept under the rug.

I was waiting for someone to put up that site. DogsBite.Org is not an unbiased publication and should not be used as a source for anything credible.[/QUOTE]

Then I’ll put it up twice because I’ve seen the outcries against it, and it is credible for tracking dog attacks in the US.

Along with this one that just broke my heart when I read victim’s stories:

http://www.daxtonsfriends.com/victims-stories/

http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-sta...ities-2016.php

[red_mares]

[QUOTE=beowulf;8890143]
It does go both ways, I agree, and yes, the deaths should not be swept under the rug.

I was waiting for someone to put up that site. DogsBite.Org is not an unbiased publication and should not be used as a source for anything credible.[/QUOTE]

Then I would argue that pitbull rescues are biased toward them and should not be used as source of ANY information about the breed.

[rugbygirl]

Absolutely. Very few rescues come across credibly in their defense of dogs, and if they want to help dogs, they’re going to have to recognize that they need to win over people. Sooooo many rescuers have the attitude that they like animals more than people, so they can be as crass and offensive as they want.

[rugbygirl]

[QUOTE=Marshfield;8890087]
I’d be suing for the rescue for payment of all medical bills. And outing them on every form of media possible. I’d also report them to whomever oversees rescues in the state. The dog never should have been adopted out to your friends.[/QUOTE]

Have you ever seen a rescue “outed” on social media? I witnessed one horrifying spectacle where I felt the rescue had failed a dog in a pretty clear cut way, resulting in its being seized by law enforcement and turned over to another rescue. For rescuing and medical attention. The insanity that followed on Facebook was baffling. Of course the rescue is still busily operating. “calling one out” seems to actually attract people to its cause, and generates donations and support. People LOVE a “persecuted” animal rescue, apparently. And the ABUSE toward people who were standing up to the rescue…I don’t think I’d wish that on the poor people who already got screwed over and suffered an injury.

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=skyon;8890148]
Then I’ll put it up twice because I’ve seen the outcries against it, and it is credible for tracking dog attacks in the US.

Along with this one that just broke my heart when I read victim’s stories:

http://www.daxtonsfriends.com/victims-stories/

http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-sta...ities-2016.php[/QUOTE]

And I will repeat: dogsbite is not a reliable source. They do not track all bites, they twist stats to favor their own agenda, they do not post links to unbiased, unaffiliated studies, and the owner of the website is fulfilling a personal agenda after an alleged pitbull-type attack. There are no experts of any profession on the site and it is not a journalist resource for a reason.

DogsBite.org is just as reliable a source as PETA.

[rugbygirl]

[QUOTE=beowulf;8890196]
And I will repeat: dogsbite is not a reliable source. They do not track all bites, they twist stats to favor their own agenda, they do not post links to unbiased, unaffiliated studies, and the owner of the website is fulfilling a personal agenda after an alleged pitbull-type attack. There are no experts of any profession on the site and it is not a journalist resource for a reason.

DogsBite.org is just as reliable a source as PETA.[/QUOTE]

I don’t think there’s any credible single source to track results. You have to combine all sources. Police reports, emergency room stats (human and veterinary), what numbers the rescues claim, news reports. People lie about dog bites, sometimes in return for money, sometimes just because they are afraid the dog will be put down, sometimes because of intimidation, or sometimes because they were doing something illegal/wrong when they were bitten. That’s kind of why I feel legislation belongs at the local level. An overpopulation of Ill-tempered Mastiffs in Edmonton shouldn’t necessarily result in a large breed ban in, say, Saskatoon. There’s a point to sharing information, a similar problem in one place can be solved the same way another place solved it, but only with good records. Assembling good records for one city is doable. Trying to do it in somewhere the size of Ontario is ridiculous.

[khall]

Dogbite is a biased source.

Take a read: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steffen-baldwin/the-lies-damn-lies-and-st_b_8112394.html

CDC does not use “breed” when tracking dog bites. Education and dangerous dog laws not BSL is the answer to preventing dog bites.

Any large breed of dog has a strong bite and has the potential to seriously harm or even kill when they attack. It is a myth that pit bulls types have stronger bite strength than other breeds. https://plexidors.com/myths-around-dog-bite-force/

I love pit bull type dogs, they are my breed of choice though I do not personally own what I consider to be a pittie. I do own a block headed dog, but he is larger at 95 lbs and looks more Ridgeback or boxer. I have fostered quite a few pit bull types and they have been my favorite fosters by far. Love to train these dogs, all they want to do is to please their owners. My foster Sage is a block headed dog and she has been a pleasure to work with, so smart and trainable. Her best bud is my 28 lbs terrier mix. She can be dog selective and is a dominant dog, but I have no trouble taking her out and about with other dogs/animals or people around (she adores children).

[GoodTimes]

[QUOTE=khall;8890261]
Dogbite is a biased source.

Take a read: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steffen-baldwin/the-lies-damn-lies-and-st_b_8112394.html

CDC does not use “breed” when tracking dog bites. Education and dangerous dog laws not BSL is the answer to preventing dog bites.

Any large breed of dog has a strong bite and has the potential to seriously harm or even kill when they attack. It is a myth that pit bulls types have stronger bite strength than other breeds. https://plexidors.com/myths-around-dog-bite-force/

).[/QUOTE]

Dogsbite is an unreliable source but you consider an article from Plexidors with no citations credible…

[Nootka]

I love pit bull type dogs, they are my breed of choice though I do not personally own what I consider to be a pittie. I do own a block headed dog, but he is larger at 95 lbs and looks more Ridgeback or boxer.

Ridgebacks are considered highly dangerous and banned in Dublin, Ireland (along with other breeds)

PS: they are my preferred breed and will own RR the rest of my life

[WildandWickedWarmblo]

Ridgebacks were bred to hunt in packs and to bring down lions for people to then finish off. I boarded where a woman had 3 ridgebacks. She herself said they were extremely dangerous and she kept them penned. Occasionally one would get out and I’d drag my horses into their stalls just in case.

BO had coursed them in California, she said. Dogs always ignored me but they had fearsome teeth and jaws. And they never looked at me, even in their pens or when loose. Dogs that avoid looking at me, well, that makes me nervous.

[rugbygirl]

The only people I know with ridgebacks had them in South African and they were trained guard dogs bred and bought specifically to attack intruders. They were not pets, and the owners were quick to correct anyone who thought they were.

[skyon]

[QUOTE=khall;8890261]
Dogbite is a biased source.

Take a read: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steffen-baldwin/the-lies-damn-lies-and-st_b_8112394.html

CDC does not use “breed” when tracking dog bites. Education and dangerous dog laws not BSL is the answer to preventing dog bites.

Any large breed of dog has a strong bite and has the potential to seriously harm or even kill when they attack. It is a myth that pit bulls types have stronger bite strength than other breeds. https://plexidors.com/myths-around-dog-bite-force/
.[/QUOTE]

Yes it always is noted that PBs don’t have locking jaws. But it is true that once they clamp on, many, many people report having to know how to use matches to try and get them to release. One of the issues that came up with a rescue, was seeing increased needs for break sticks.

I don’t find it hard to believe that dogs bred to hold bulls and fight other dogs will have these traits:

Pit bulls, descendants of the bulldogs used in the nineteenth century for bull baiting and dogfighting, have been bred for “gameness,” and thus a lowered inhibition to aggression. Most dogs fight as a last resort, when staring and growling fail. A pit bull is willing to fight with little or no provocation. Pit bulls seem to have a high tolerance for pain, making it possible for them to fight to the point of exhaustion.

Whereas guard dogs like German shepherds usually attempt to restrain those they perceive to be threats by biting and holding, pit bulls try to inflict the maximum amount of damage on an opponent.

They bite, hold, shake, and tear. They don’t growl or assume an aggressive facial expression as warning. They just attack. “They are often insensitive to behaviors that usually stop aggression,” one scientific review of the breed states. “For example, dogs not bred for fighting usually display defeat in combat by rolling over and exposing a light underside. On several occasions, pit bulls have been reported to disembowel dogs offering this signal of submission.”

In epidemiological studies of dog bites, the pit bull is overrepresented among dogs known to have seriously injured or killed human beings, and, as a result, pit bulls have been banned or restricted in several Western European countries, China, and numerous cities and municipalities across North America. Pit bulls are dangerous.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2006/02/06/troublemakers-2

On the updside, Old Yeller may have been a pitbull cross…

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=Nootka;8890346]
Ridgebacks are considered highly dangerous and banned in Dublin, Ireland (along with other breeds)

PS: they are my preferred breed and will own RR the rest of my life ;)[/QUOTE]
I did not know that they were considered dangerous and banned… That’s a shame, RRs were in my family as a child growing up and I associate positively with them. I was an annoying child (and probably an annoying adult) and they were all very even-tempered and tolerant of us three kids, our yelling and screaming, our running around the house, basically being little scoundrels - they never got riled up the way I’ve seen our GSDs get riled up. One used to go ‘hunting’ with me when I overturned logs for salamanders and snakes… and even tried to get on the school-bus with me in the morning. Very loyal and intelligent dogs. They were my parent’s pet breed of choice… until I converted them into GSDs :winkgrin:

All of the ridgebacks I’ve met have been well behaved, sweet and not dangerous, but they are first and foremost protective of their people. I would not call that dangerous, but they are wary of strangers and do not trust easily. My father did adopt a rescue RR that we suspect was not full RR (mastiff, probably) that had some serious mental damage, but I do not credit that as his fault or indicative of the breed… he came from a very bad background and was the best dog he could be given his upbringing.

[snowrider]

The ridgebacks in Dublin were being bred as guard dogs similar to put bulls in sketchy areas of the US. It doesn’t take long to breed undesired traits into every individual when they are present in the gene pool already. They are also notorious for chasing sheep, other pets etc. Very high prey drive and pack hunters. Dogs that chase livestock in Ireland get shot, period.

The RBs I’ve met in the US have all had good temperaments, are taller and skinnier with smaller heads. Other than the ridge they could be another breed almost. Unfortunately they ones I’ve met in the US also uniformly had terrible hips and gait abnormalities too.

[khall]

Good times: same result, different source, National Geographic and UGA sited from this source.

http://www.animalplanet.com/pets/3-bully-breeds-have-a-stronger-bite-than-any-other-dog/

skyon you did not read the full article from The New Yorker:

A Georgia-based group called the American Temperament Test Society has put twenty-five thousand dogs through a ten-part standardized drill designed to assess a dog’s stability, shyness, aggressiveness, and friendliness in the company of people. A handler takes a dog on a six-foot lead and judges its reaction to stimuli such as gunshots, an umbrella opening, and a weirdly dressed stranger approaching in a threatening way. Eighty-four per cent of the pit bulls that have been given the test have passed, which ranks pit bulls ahead of beagles, Airedales, bearded collies, and all but one variety of dachshund. “We have tested somewhere around a thousand pit-bull-type dogs,” Carl Herkstroeter, the president of the A.T.T.S., says. “I’ve tested half of them. And of the number I’ve tested I have disqualified one pit bull because of aggressive tendencies. They have done extremely well. They have a good temperament. They are very good with children.” It can even be argued that the same traits that make the pit bull so aggressive toward other dogs are what make it so nice to humans. “There are a lot of pit bulls these days who are licensed therapy dogs,” the writer Vicki Hearne points out. “Their stability and resoluteness make them excellent for work with people who might not like a more bouncy, flibbertigibbet sort of dog. When pit bulls set out to provide comfort, they are as resolute as they are when they fight, but what they are resolute about is being gentle. And, because they are fearless, they can be gentle with anybody.”

This especially: The dogs had already passed through the animal bureaucracy of Ottawa, and the city could easily have prevented the second attack with the right kind of generalization—a generalization based not on breed but on the known and meaningful connection between dangerous dogs and negligent owners.

Reporting on a mauling that resulted in a fatality by pit bulls. Again the dangerous dog laws would have prevented this attack (I actually have no trouble euthanizing any dog that is truly aggressive towards humans, I have with a pit bull that I rescued/found, he was people aggressive and I had him PTS). The article was actually against BSLs.