skyon you did not read the full article from The New Yorker:
.[/QUOTE]
Yes, actually I did.
I posted what is being noted about the difference in a pitbull attack versus other dogs i.e. a GS specifically because every time someone notes they DO NOT have locking jaws they usually forget to mention just what makes a pitbull attack devastating when it happens to a human, dog, or any other animal.
Again, they pass xxxx tests for obedience. However, when things go wrong, it’s not just a bite. It is a devastating mauling that is a trait of those dogs.
If you have a ranch, wonderful. If you live in an apartment complex or small neightborhood and you have someone who starts promoting the negative and then crossing them with canes and American bulldogs, it’s not so wonderful to have the big block headed dog on the block.
That really is going on - the pits I remember seeing in the 80s-90s were medium sized dogs with more of a terrier look in their body. I do a double take lately at pictures now because you can see a bigger dog with accentuated bone structure and head.
So I agree that a ban on pits won’t solve much, but the trend for the big protective dog is still out there and the trend for some rescues to think all are love bugs no matter what is happening.
And I still come back full circle that if someone is in denial about what dog are originally bred for, they are more likely to get someone hurt.
[QUOTE=skyon;8890372]
They bite, hold, shake, and tear. They don’t growl or assume an aggressive facial expression as warning. They just attack. “They are often insensitive to behaviors that usually stop aggression,” one scientific review of the breed states. “For example, dogs not bred for fighting usually display defeat in combat by rolling over and exposing a light underside. On several occasions, pit bulls have been reported to disembowel dogs offering this signal of submission.”[/QUOTE]
When you take your dog for a walk in your suburban neighborhood, you can do everything right, and still put your dog at risk for this kind of attack by what your dog thinks is a monster that is going to tear it to pieces.
What kind of a dog owner am I that puts her dogs at risk for this kind of attack, basically every time I take them for a walk? Thanks to pit bulls being the most popular and prevalent dog in the nation, they are everywhere and this could happen anytime. And does happen to other people’s dogs. You feel like a sitting duck out there.
We risk our dogs lives on every walk so that pit bull enthusiasts can enjoy their pet of choice. People will read that and think it’s silly but it’s true. They are everywhere and as everyone admits, they are owned usually by idiots. Pit bull enthusiasts: put yourself in the shoes of other dog owners. There’s not much we can do to stop a pit bull from attacking and besides trying to avoid them, not much we can do to prevent it either. Our dogs are no match for yours. Our dogs trust us to keep them safe, but they like walks too. They should be able to have a safe walk on a leash in the neighborhood. I do not understand why the interests of one type of dog enthusiast group trumps the interests of everyone else including public safety.
It’s just not logical. An animal that is capable of this kind of damage to life and limb, and who’s representatives are repeatedly inflicting it upon other animals and human beings, should not be a suburban house pet. It is a public safety issue.
[QUOTE=Sswor;8891333]
When you take your dog for a walk in your suburban neighborhood, you can do everything right, and still put your dog at risk for this kind of attack by what your dog thinks is a monster that is going to tear it to pieces.
What kind of a dog owner am I that puts her dogs at risk for this kind of attack, basically every time I take them for a walk? Thanks to pit bulls being the most popular and prevalent dog in the nation, they are everywhere and this could happen anytime. And does happen to other people’s dogs. You feel like a sitting duck out there.
We risk our dogs lives on every walk so that pit bull enthusiasts can enjoy their pet of choice. People will read that and think it’s silly but it’s true. They are everywhere and as everyone admits, they are owned usually by idiots. Pit bull enthusiasts: put yourself in the shoes of other dog owners. There’s not much we can do to stop a pit bull from attacking and besides trying to avoid them, not much we can do to prevent it either. Our dogs are no match for yours. Our dogs trust us to keep them safe, but they like walks too. They should be able to have a safe walk on a leash in the neighborhood. I do not understand why the interests of one type of dog enthusiast group trumps the interests of everyone else including public safety.
It’s just not logical. An animal that is capable of this kind of damage to life and limb, and who’s representatives are repeatedly inflicting it upon other animals and human beings, should not be a suburban house pet. It is a public safety issue.[/QUOTE]
Sswor, maybe you should move. My suburban neighborhood does not leave me feeling at risk like yours does. It must be terrible to live in fear of walking your dogs.
[QUOTE=Perfect10;8891351]
Sswor, maybe you should move. My suburban neighborhood does not leave me feeling at risk like yours does. It must be terrible to live in fear of walking your dogs.[/QUOTE]
How feasible do you think that is for your average person? I don’t think that is the logical solution to the nation’s apparent problem with pit bulls; for us all to just move.
[QUOTE=khall;8891198]
A Georgia-based group called the American Temperament Test Society has put twenty-five thousand dogs through a ten-part standardized drill designed to assess a dog’s stability, shyness, aggressiveness, and friendliness in the company of people. A handler takes a dog on a six-foot lead and judges its reaction to stimuli such as gunshots, an umbrella opening, and a weirdly dressed stranger approaching in a threatening way. Eighty-four per cent of the pit bulls that have been given the test have passed, which ranks pit bulls ahead of beagles, Airedales, bearded collies, and all but one variety of dachshund.[/QUOTE]
The ATTS was designed to test dogs for traits needed in police/military work - aka, attack dogs. The test rewards boldness - ie, the heavy emphasis on seeing if a dog will startle at novel stimuli and sound - and does not test an animal’s response to other animals, a huge issue in the life of any pet dog. In addition, the test specifically takes into account the breed-specific tendencies of each breed. So a German Shepherd who eyef’s the tester will pass, while a Beardie will not.
Apart from the questionable value of an attack-dog test in predicting safe, pet qualities in dogs, there are a few other problems with the ATTS as a proof of pit bull safety. One is that pit bull owners take this test far more often than other breeds. Since the test was basically designed for police/military dogs, dog owners who bother to take it are usually people who own either traditional police dogs - German Shepherds, Malinois, etc. - or people who own dogs which are not used as police dogs but wish they were because then they’d have an excuse for their breed’s problems - the pits and the Rottweilers. Not a lot of Golden Retrievers are taking this test. And the pit bull owners who do take the test aren’t just showing up on a whim one Saturday - they spend a bit of time online in pit forums discussing how to pass. Which is an odd way to approach a basic temperament test.
There is a real simple test of whether a breed or type has a good temperament. It’s called their safety record. Pit bulls are like cars that have horrible crash tests and a recall record from hell, but the owners claim that they look sweet at car shows and perform really well on dry, sunny days on a perfectly clear and empty track. Not super convincing.
[QUOTE=Sswor;8891359]
How feasible do you think that is for your average person? I don’t think that is the logical solution to the nation’s apparent problem with pit bulls; for us all to just move.[/QUOTE]
I’m not saying it is. I’m saying it may be the solution to your specific problem. There are no pit bulls terrorizing my neighborhood. I know of one a few streets over, but he has never terrorized anyone and is safely contained in a fence or on a leash when he is outside.
Pit bulls are everywhere. The bad ones with the idiot owners tend to live in more modest parts of town. It is not feasible for everyone with a pit bull problem to move, nor is it logical, and frankly nor is it just. I ask again, how and why does it make sense that one dog type fanciers’ interests trump those of everyone else? We are not talking about a general nuisance. We are talking about a powerful domestic animal capable of and does render tremendous amounts of physical damage in unprovoked attacks on other domestic animals and people, on the public streets, and it’s a problem year after year.
Sswor, MY pit mix is not a danger to anyone on my street. I’m responsible for my dog. I get that your scared of pits/ bully type dogs, I get it. But I’m worried about the general public when my dog is out with me. If anything happens it will be my dog’s fault because of her breed. I’m worried to walk her because of the GSD in the neighborhood that challenges every dog it sees. So it goes both ways.
I agree there are to many pit bull type dogs being bred. I’m all for temperament tests being done and aggressive dogs being put down. I’m for stopping puppy mills not just because they are in humane, but because they don’t care about the health or the temperament of the dogs, that includes the Amish mills. But to hate a breed, or mix, because of bad breeders and the ahole owners is wrong. There are more reports of pit bull type dogs biting/attacking is because at the moment because of over/bad breeding. There are more good pit bull type dogs and good owners out here than you would like to believe. You just don’t hear about us and our dogs because they aren’t news worthy. You’ve heard the statement about the news " if it bleeds, it leads". I can’t speak for other pit owners, but for myself, I’m tired of being put in a box along side of thugs because of my choice of dog. I’ve had Dobermans, Rottweilers, Bull Mastiffs and now a pit mix, I guess I’m a terrible person. But guess what, my dogs have never caused a problem wherever I’ve lived. I feel bad for you that your so afraid.
Back to the OP, I hope your dog is doing ok. I’m sorry for what happened.
[QUOTE=Sswor;8891385]
Pit bulls are everywhere. The bad ones with the idiot owners tend to live in more modest parts of town. It is not feasible for everyone with a pit bull problem to move, nor is it logical, and frankly nor is it just. I ask again, how and why does it make sense that one dog type fanciers’ interests trump those of everyone else? We are not talking about a general nuisance. We are talking about a powerful domestic animal capable of and does render tremendous amounts of physical damage in unprovoked attacks on other domestic animals and people, on the public streets, and it’s a problem year after year.[/QUOTE]
You are answering your own question. If “Pit Bulls are everywhere” and the problematic ones tend to concentrate in certain areas (“the more midest part of towns”), then maybe the problems are correlated more to socioeconomic status of the neighborhood than the breed?
[QUOTE=Sswor;8891333]
When you take your dog for a walk in your suburban neighborhood, you can do everything right, and still put your dog at risk for this kind of attack by what your dog thinks is a monster that is going to tear it to pieces.
What kind of a dog owner am I that puts her dogs at risk for this kind of attack, basically every time I take them for a walk? Thanks to pit bulls being the most popular and prevalent dog in the nation, they are everywhere and this could happen anytime. And does happen to other people’s dogs. You feel like a sitting duck out there.
We risk our dogs lives on every walk so that pit bull enthusiasts can enjoy their pet of choice. People will read that and think it’s silly but it’s true. They are everywhere and as everyone admits, they are owned usually by idiots. Pit bull enthusiasts: put yourself in the shoes of other dog owners. There’s not much we can do to stop a pit bull from attacking and besides trying to avoid them, not much we can do to prevent it either. Our dogs are no match for yours. Our dogs trust us to keep them safe, but they like walks too. They should be able to have a safe walk on a leash in the neighborhood. I do not understand why the interests of one type of dog enthusiast group trumps the interests of everyone else including public safety.
It’s just not logical. An animal that is capable of this kind of damage to life and limb, and who’s representatives are repeatedly inflicting it upon other animals and human beings, should not be a suburban house pet. It is a public safety issue.[/QUOTE]
Your post sounds just a wee bit hysterical and hyperbolic. ANY dog over 40lb is capable of “Extreme damage to life and limb”. PB-types do not have stronger jaws than other dogs of their size/breed type. They do not “lock their jaws”. Some may not let go but that is not unique to one breed; many dogs will not let go once they have something in their mouth - mastiffs, LSDs, GSDs, etc… If PBs are truly EVERYWHERE, which you claim (and I don’t doubt their prevalence, especially in underrun/poor socioeconomic regions) why are there not mass maulings? Why are they not terrorizing the streets and killing humans and dogs left and right? They aren’t. The volume of attacks is directly in relation to the proportion of the population - time and time again, no one can provide any sort of definitive proof that PB types are inherently more dangerous to other dogs/society than other breeds - because they’re not. Meanwhile, people have provided evidence that they’re less aggressive than other breeds.
I’m also someone who enjoyed taking my dogs for walks. I lived in the GHETTO right after college. Let me emphasize that for you: think methlabs, drunk men in wifebeaters, pit-bull types on chains, loose dogs, loose children, foreclosed house after house… I got dogs to protect myself. I walked my two dogs, one a full Am-Staff and the other half PB half Tamaskan every day before work, past pitbulls of every shape and color and training and never once did a single one of them attack my dogs. Never once did my dogs attack anyone else’s. They were always more interested in saying ‘hi’ to me. The spaniels in the cul-de-sac down the road, however, were extremely territorial and aggressive. I’m not saying no ‘pit type’ out there is dangerous, but it has simply not been my experience that PB types are the ones I need to worry about.
When my Am-staff was mauled by a GSD – and I do mean mauled - she was bitten, dragged and FLUNG - she has a 6 inch scar on her flank from it – all she did was scream and cry. None of that “locked jaw” “refuse to let go” BS. It was awful and she did not even defend herself, not that I wanted her to because I think she would have gotten more hurt.
It’s just been my experience, seeing quite a few dog fights break out over the years - I’ve never seen a dog submit in the heat of a real fight by rolling over onto their belly.
PB’s problem isn’t their breed; only a small portion of them were actually bred for fighting – that gene-pool is not steeped into the entire population. The PB’s problem is that they are utilized usually for illegal operations; in these instances they are rarely trained, bred indiscriminately, frequently mislabeled and worse, attract the interest of people who are either socioeconomically oppressed or uneducated.
BTW Rotties are the breed most represented in the test.[/QUOTE]
Vacation1 probably got that misinformation from the “credible source” DogsBite :rolleyes:
I have seen this with dogs in dog training years back (I was taking my own dogs to the class), and when my own dog, a sib husky was attacked, three times. They roll to avoid the fight upon the approach.
He never reached the point of a fight - he rolled over immediately when the dog reached him and was visibly aggressive. Scared the crap out of me each time I didn’t see the dogs coming - they were unleashed (years in between each incident).
Dalmatian, German Shorthair and some kind of small terrier mixes that could have had pit in them - in that case it was a youngster following its’ mother who also gave chase. She stopped to sniff and he just circled barking.
I really do think I would have had an emergency vet bill, if not worse, in each of those if my dog wasn’t quite the wuss and rolled as soon as they closed in.
So 90-95% of the pits may not do this, but even if a small percent act on instinct, it’s a devastating attack. Not the two stitches and band aids I received when I was a kid crossing yards from small sheep dog mixes.
And this brings up another topic - it’s not burglars, rapists and thugs that are dying and mauled. You know, the thugs that everyone seems to want the big protective dogs for their families. There was one a guard dog training place up here that had their own child killed from a dog that was in their advertisements (Not pits).
Capable, sure. Documented, repeated instances, no. Pit bull types killed 30 people in 2015. All other breeds combined killed 6 people in 2015.
[QUOTE=beowulf;8891574]PB-types do not have stronger jaws than other dogs of their size/breed type. They do not “lock their jaws”.
[/quote]
No one is disputing this. Continuing to repeat undisputed info is a distraction from the points being discussed.
[QUOTE=beowulf;8891574]Some may not let go but that is not unique to one breed; many dogs will not let go once they have something in their mouth - mastiffs, LSDs, GSDs, etc…
[/quote]
Sure, it’s a dog trait. Pit bull types do have a unique trait of not only not letting go–but also shaking and tearing, with the wide jaw that is a breed trait, combined with utter fearlessness and tenacity of a typical terrier, and extreme obsessiveness to continue the attack despite all efforts to break it up. There are many reports of pit types continuing to attack until shot and killed. People try to stab these dogs with kitchen knives and the dogs continue to attack. All these traits together combine to make the type easily capable of extreme damage to flesh, and the ability to dismember the target. This is the point.
[QUOTE=beowulf;8891574] If PBs are truly EVERYWHERE, which you claim (and I don’t doubt their prevalence, especially in underrun/poor socioeconomic regions) why are there not mass maulings? Why are they not terrorizing the streets and killing humans and dogs left and right? They aren’t.
[/quote]
They are. 30 human fatalities by pit bull types in 2015. 6 attributed to all other breeds. It’s impossible to know how many companion animals were killed but several vets have weighed in on this thread and others about how they are “tired of sewing up victims of pit bull attacks” at their clinics.
[QUOTE=beowulf;8891574] The volume of attacks is directly in relation to the proportion of the population -
[/quote]
You pretty much just made that up. Adding the word “directly” makes it sound more factual but it’s wild speculation that isn’t helpful to anyone.
[QUOTE=beowulf;8891574]time and time again, no one can provide any sort of definitive proof that PB types are inherently more dangerous to other dogs/society than other breeds - because they’re not. Meanwhile, people have provided evidence that they’re less aggressive than other breeds.
[/quote]
Except the 30 dead people last year. 6 dead by all other breeds combined. You are dodging again as pit bull types are extremely dog aggressive as a breed trait and that is an important factor to be considered. I realize dog life is not as important as human life but if you are to keep championing your chosen type of dog–why is my concern about mine minimized?
They may indeed be less aggressive to people then other breeds, but once an attack begins, they sure seem to be more capable of killing their target then any other breed. 30 fatalities vs 6 is not an insignificant statistic, and it doesn’t even address all of the companion dogs maimed and killed by pit types.
[QUOTE=beowulf;8891574]I’m also someone who enjoyed taking my dogs for walks. I lived in the GHETTO right after college. Let me emphasize that for you: think methlabs, drunk men in wifebeaters, pit-bull types on chains, loose dogs, loose children, foreclosed house after house… I got dogs to protect myself. I walked my two dogs, one a full Am-Staff and the other half PB half Tamaskan every day before work, past pitbulls of every shape and color and training and never once did a single one of them attack my dogs. Never once did my dogs attack anyone else’s. They were always more interested in saying ‘hi’ to me. The spaniels in the cul-de-sac down the road, however, were extremely territorial and aggressive. I’m not saying no ‘pit type’ out there is dangerous, but it has simply not been my experience that PB types are the ones I need to worry about.
[/quote]
It’s probably got a great deal to do with the type of dogs you were walking. Try walking something ~20# and white past those same dogs. It’s an eye opening experience to see a pit lunging and roaring at your beloved pets while you pray the chain holds long enough for you to get back in your home. If the spaniels get loose, you can likely fend them off. If you can’t, they are extremely unlikely to kill your pet. They are even more unlikely to kill YOU. Pits are a whole nother ball of wax entirely.
[QUOTE=beowulf;8891574]When my Am-staff was mauled by a GSD – and I do mean mauled - she was bitten, dragged and FLUNG - she has a 6 inch scar on her flank from it – all she did was scream and cry. None of that “locked jaw” “refuse to let go” BS. It was awful and she did not even defend herself, not that I wanted her to because I think she would have gotten more hurt.
[/quote]
I am really sorry and even more glad she is/was ok. Imagine if she was 20# or less and you know how those of us who’s pets are, feel. Not a fan of GSDs running loose either, for the record. There just doesn’t seem to be much problem with loose GSDs nationwide killing people’s dogs out for a walk on a leash. Pit bull types do seem to be a problem. OP’s pet was attacked by a pit bull type. Her’s is not an uncommon story.
[QUOTE=beowulf;8891574]It’s just been my experience, seeing quite a few dog fights break out over the years - I’ve never seen a dog submit in the heat of a real fight by rolling over onto their belly.
[/quote]
Dogs who have no fight and who are ambushed and attacked DO act like this as a last resort to make the monster stop. This is a last ditch effort by a dog who knows it’s way in over it’s head. It’s a survival trait that dogs perform. If the pit bull type is going to ignore it and go in for the kill, lesser dogs are truly sitting ducks. How heartbreaking. This has to tug at you in some way as a dog owner.
[QUOTE=beowulf;8891574]PB’s problem isn’t their breed; only a small portion of them were actually bred for fighting – that gene-pool is not steeped into the entire population.
[/quote]
Again, I think you are just making that up because it’s convenient for the argument, or because your particular pit falls into this category so it paints your world view of them all. I can’t blame you for that–as in your own personal experience, xyz is true, but I would argue that this is not at all true of the breed/type. When the PD breaks up dog fighting rings, they type that they confiscate is always, always pit bulls.
Agreed, that is one portion of the problem, and it is not an insignificant portion. But the problem is multi-faceted, not singular as it seems you are attempting to portray.
I still say that telling people with a pit bull problem they should just move, is extremely callous. Not to mention, move where?? They are everywhere. This type of dog’s enthusiasts interest’s should not trump everyone else’s. It’s just not logical.
[QUOTE=DogIsMyCopilot;8891478]
You are answering your own question. If “Pit Bulls are everywhere” and the problematic ones tend to concentrate in certain areas (“the more midest part of towns”), then maybe the problems are correlated more to socioeconomic status of the neighborhood than the breed?[/QUOTE]
These people were not of the socioeconomic status that is claimed about the breed and mauling.
They were, however, ignorant about the breed they owned (and even more sadly, in some cases, they did not own) and when not to trust dog behavior.
Again, I think you are just making that up because it’s convenient for the argument, or because your particular pit falls into this category so it paints your world view of them all. I can’t blame you for that–as in your own personal experience, xyz is true, but I would argue that this is not at all true of the breed/type. When the PD breaks up dog fighting rings, they type that they confiscate is always, always pit bulls.
Agreed, that is one portion of the problem, and it is not an insignificant portion. But the problem is multi-faceted, not singular as it seems you are attempting to portray.
I still say that telling people with a pit bull problem they should just move, is extremely callous. Not to mention, move where?? They are everywhere. This type of dog’s enthusiasts interest’s should not trump everyone else’s. It’s just not logical.[/QUOTE]
Every time someone points out something SUPPORTED by fact you say “that’s made up”. I don’t really know what to do with you if you’re going to refuse to accept facts put forth by actual, certified resources.
It’s not a ‘dog’s enthusiast’s interest’s’ trumping everyone else’s issue: what is an issue is people with your viewpoint who want to castigate an entire panel of “blocky-headed” dog types and ban/euthanize them all with no supporting/substantial evidence backing your claims.
You can’t pull statistics off of a biased site like DOGSBITE.org and expect people to fall in line with you. Many of the maulings never confirmed with DNA the type of the dog. Many didn’t even disclose pictures of the dog. “Pit bull type” is a misnomer for all the reasons various experts have pointed out: anything can pass as a pitbull to a layperson. “Pit bull type” encompasses, again, everything from an actual Am-Staff to Molosser breeds, to hounds, to labs. They are misidentified all the time.
Of course my EXPERIENCE with animals will paint my view of them. As someone who volunteered at shelters, worked in a kennel, and has owned various and sundry breeds of dogs, it has not been my EXPERIENCE that ‘pit bull types’ are more aggressive. PBs are not my breed of choice, though I somehow ended up with two of them - but I can still recognize that it’s the individual, not the breed, that is a problem.
Aggressive dogs should be euthanized, period. That I agree with. I still do not agree that as a population, PB types are any more aggressive than other dogs. It has been proven they are not more human aggressive than other breeds, and that has been my experience as well. Am-Staff and other “PB types” have been tested at length to prove this. I do think like all terriers they prefer their people to dogs, and will concede that like any dog they need proper socialization with other dogs, but again, they are not the psychotic loaded-guns you like to paint them as. The stats don’t support that they’re “weaponized dogs/loaded guns/ballistic cannons/whatever-other-hyperbolic” you use to describe them, the studies don’t support it, professionals/experts in the field don’t support it.
Beowulf, you claimed that only a small amount of pit bulls are bred for fighting, and that dog aggression is not a breed trait of the pit bull type. If you would like to include a citation with that statement, I may retract my protest. I will certainly look at any evidence you would like to submit to support that claim. As it stands, I would like to respectfully disagree with that.
Laypeople are indeed, able to ID a pit bull type as a pit bull type, but usually in the police reports it is PD that does the ID, or the owner of the attacking dog that IDs it. It’s not just a casual 3rd party walking past the incident, ie “layperson” that is providing ID. Every time a photo of the attacking dog ID’ed as pit bull is included with the article outlining the incident of fatal attack, it is indeed correctly ID’ed.
This protest regarding the alleged difficulty of properly ID’ing a pit bull is a smoke screen. Somehow, the lovable couch potato ID’ed as pit bull is never, ever challenged. Why? I say because there is an agenda to cover up and minimize the danger that this type of dog brings to a community. Again–pit bull type enthusiasts’ interests trumping the interests of everyone else. It’s not logical, nor is it just.
[QUOTE=Sswor;8891788]
Beowulf, you claimed that only a small amount of pit bulls are bred for fighting, and that dog aggression is not a breed trait of the pit bull type. If you would like to include a citation with that statement, I may retract my protest. I will certainly look at any evidence you would like to submit to support that claim. As it stands, I would like to respectfully disagree with that.
Laypeople are indeed, able to ID a pit bull type as a pit bull type, but usually in the police reports it is PD that does the ID, or the owner of the attacking dog that IDs it. It’s not just a casual 3rd party walking past the incident, ie “layperson” that is providing ID. Every time a photo of the attacking dog ID’ed as pit bull is included with the article outlining the incident of fatal attack, it is indeed correctly ID’ed.
This protest regarding the alleged difficulty of properly ID’ing a pit bull is a smoke screen. Somehow, the lovable couch potato ID’ed as pit bull is never, ever challenged. Why? I say because there is an agenda to cover up and minimize the danger that this type of dog brings to a community. Again–pit bull type enthusiasts’ interests trumping the interests of everyone else. It’s not logical, nor is it just.[/QUOTE]
Do you think that the dog-fighting rings like Vicks, that those blood-lines perpetrate an entire type of dog? From Am-staff to Bull Terrier? There are reputable breeders (as in, NOT dog fighting) that have breed lines that never once were used for fighting. Bull-baiting, yes, 150~ years ago.
OK. So by your logic, all PB types are/were bred for dog-fighting. That the Am-staff breeder/shower down the road from us, her lines must be the same/identical as Michael Vick’s, and so on, so forth.
Unless the dog is DNA’d, it is anybody’s guess. The alleged difficulty comes with trying to ID a “pit bull” because there’s too many variations and too many dogs with similar characteristics – that and that genuinely mixed breed/feral dogs do homogenize to a pariah-type dog with stocky features and blocky heads. Blocky head and low-set physique is found in other non-PB, you know: Cattle dogs, plott hounds, mastiffs, English-type labs, newfoundland mixes, etc.
If it was a “smoke-screen” diversion, you wouldn’t see experts like the CDC refuse to endorse it.
[QUOTE=Hawkridge;8888588]
So you used to show American Pit Bull Terriers? And here we have so many pit bull advocates stating there is no such thing as a Pit Bull…so which is it? Are they or are they not an actual breed? I’m confused about this…[/QUOTE]
My first reaction to this was “You are kidding right? You can’t possibly be that dense?” Then I realized that sadly, a lot of people don’t know the facts and histories of this breed. And you are clearly asking for help to understand something. Sometimes our first reactions are horribly wrong, like mine was in this case.
The American Pit Bull Terrier is a breed. Pit bull is a generic term used to describe any dog with a block head and/or brindle or blue coat that may or may not have any APBT (American Pit Bull Terrier) blood in it. So depending on how you think, there is or is not any such thing as a pit bull. I say call them what they are: pure or mix/mutt. My dogs were/are registered with the oldest registry for the breed: ADBA. The AKC would not accept the breed based on that name so they changed it to American Staffordshire Terrier. The two breeds were once one breed (still technically are) but due to different goals in breeders they no longer resemble each other. The Staffie was bred more for the show ring while the APBT was bred to be a working dog. MY definition of a working dog means a dog capable of doing a job. Most dogs bred for the AKC show ring are not working dogs. I hope that helps you to understand Hawkridge.
Now for other posters:
If pit bulls (both mutts and pure) were so dangerous we would all be hearing more news stories every day of attacks as sadly this is the most numerous breed and mix out there. So of course, since they are the most numerous they would statistically have a higher % of attacks. IF we remove them as a breed then the second leading breed would become the first leading breed, what do we do then? Ban them too? That is the problem with BSL, it is not addressing the root cause of the problem: bad dogs. And yes, news media are quick to push the ‘pit bull attacks’ headline because it sells and gets people’s blood up. Their corrections of breed are quiet. In the last 3 (maybe 4) years in my neck of woods, our local news has reported several times that it was a pit bull attack but only to find out that no it wasn’t. I could dig it up for those who say that never happens, but why should I? It won’t matter, you won’t believe it anyways, not to mention you could do the same leg work.
I am in favor of fining the owners of bad dogs and putting a dog down that attacks a human unprovoked. If someone breaks into a house and is attacked, then I don’t hold it against the dog. I’m talking about the scenario that the OP posted about. Walking their dogs through the neighborhood when a dog attacks them for no reason. The attacking dog(s) should be destroyed. No second chances because the owner has already shown that they are not capable of handling a dangerous dog. My neighbors had a cattle dog that they walked leashed and with a muzzle on her because she would try to attack other dogs, not people just dogs. When they moved in, they went down their walking route informing the neighbors. There was never an incident with that cattle dog either. They said the dog became aggressive after it was attacked by a Doberman in their old neighborhood. Bad dogs come in all sizes and all breeds and should be judged on their actions. A breed shouldn’t be judged on the actions of bad dogs.
I have three sets of scars from dog bites/attacks. One from a pure Lab - possibly my fault but since I was a kid when it happened I don’t remember the details of it. Second set consisting of three scars was from a Walker hound. Owner shot the dog dead ten minutes after it bit me. I think I was more disturbed by that then anything else. It was my fault. I stuck my hand in the kennel to pet the dog. However, he firmly believed that his hounds should never bite a person. Third one is a from a lab mix. That was a bad dog that got passed around too many times. It attacked because I walked between him and my dad. The space between them was big enough for a car to go through, so it isn’t like I squeezed by them. Unfortunately, he was passed on to someone else after that too. He finally ended up with a retired cop (2 homes later, I think it was) who could handle him and there was never another incident with him for the rest of his life because the owner could handle him.
About 10 years ago my local AC director went on public record stating that pit bulls were the #1 biting breed in our county. I obtained the bite reports for the preceding 5 years up to that point in time. I spent almost a month sorting through the data and categorizing it. I split it into breed, breed based mix, mix, species, and then took those numbers in placed them in easy to read charts. I then took my data back to our county council on public record and showed them that the director had lied. The #1 biting breed was Lab and Lab mix by a landslide.
