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My filly is abusive.

Sport Horse Breeding
#81

[QUOTE=snm;5936944]
If I remember correctly - my boy has the same sire as your filly. As a tiny little guy I made sure he knew I was in charge. I only had to get really aggressive twice. Once when he was a few weeks old and threw a fit when I was picking up his feet - something we’d been doing daily since he was born. He finally threw himself to the ground just like a kid when I went for his foot the third time. I happened to fall with him - since I had his foot - and, right or wrong - my first instinct was to pin his little butt to the ground. He stopped struggling, I jumped off him, patted his head, praised him with my voice, we both stood back up and finished the feet lesson with no issues. I think now he still thinks I can pin him to the ground. [/QUOTE]

You know, that’s funny. Twice our trainer had employed the “you want to throw yourself down? Fine, but you’ll stay there” technique and both times they never, ever did it again. Once a colt was learning to line-drive and he wouldn’t go right. At all. And would throw himself if you tried to make him. He got away with that exactly once, and then trainer sat on his neck. It’s no fun when it’s not your choice anymore. The other colt was very similar (although I think he was hooked to sulky by that point) and again, one time.

#82

Piglet met Mr. Chain today. She does not like him. There were some nasty fireworks at first, but I think I did a decent job of getting through it… she stopped being bad eventually, anyway. She has decided that she can’t turn right and insists on drifting into me, which leads to me jabbing her with the whip and/or shoving her over when she gets into my space, which is not entirely effective.

I need to switch to a whippier beating stick, the regular crop doesn’t seem to have enough bite. Because she is a strong, feisty, stubborn little beast, I think I need to respond to any misbehavior with a major correction so she doesn’t even think about escalating. Head her off at the pass, nip it in the bud, whatever you want to call it. Does that seem reasonable?

She has her moments where she plants herself and WON’T MOVE. I told her that just because she looks like a mule doesn’t mean she has to act like one. Where we walk, there’s a little drainage ditch to one side of the path… some places it’s totally dry, some there’s a bit of water. It’s seriously a tiny thing, but she will just REFUSE to go through it and get very very naughty when I push it. Today we finally did get through it… as soon as she took a step, I released the lead and petted her (thankfully she loves attention). After a few times, she went through, albeit quickly. We went back and forth and back and forth until she was doing it perfectly quietly. I didn’t try to get her through where it’s wet, that would be pushing my luck at this point. I’m not sure what to do in these situations. Should I break out the butt rope? Use a long whip? I’ve been making her step sideways and then ask her to walk forward when she starts to move. I try to remember that I make her move her feet, she does NOT make me move mine. Or should I just stick with the “take a step, praise, take a step, praise” routine? I just don’t want her thinking that refusing is even an option, and I feel like indulging her with scritches is catering to it. She’s not afraid, I know that, she just doesn’t want to.

I haven’t gotten a rope halter yet, but I’ll probably go to a tack store on Black Friday (oh horse people, lol) and pick one up. How do you know if a rope halter will fit a weanling? The store I’m going to has mini stuff, would a mini sized rope halter work? Or will a regular one adjust small enough? I don’t know much about rope halters, obviously.

#83

Take this for what it’s worth, but while you must be able to handle her safely, there many things she’ll outgrow.

My TB filly did all sorts of idiotic airs above ground last year and this year, without me doing anything else she just stopped. I didn’t do anything more with her during this year because I just felt she just needed to grow up. She was safe to handle for my purposes (24/7 turnout and the usual farrier work).

She came around just fine. You know you horse best.

Edited to add: Oh and some horses, like kids, just thrive on attention, regardless of if it’s good attention or bad attention. Another thing to keep in mind…

Edidted to add again… (sorry!): Remember that every. single. time. you are touching or going near that filly, you are teaching her something, good or bad. And if she’s being too much of a turd right now to work with you, it might be best to just let her be for the time being.

ducking for the flames!

#84

I disagree. I honestly don’t think Amastrike is doing this filly any good at all at this point.

I’m sorry, Amastrike but I would ditch the chain. Why in heaven’s name would you need a chain on a weanling? You can just make a horse MORE reluctant with that unless you really know what you are doing. And chains aren’t any good for getting a horse to go forward.

Remember everyone said to get a long whip and ditch the crop? So, do it.

And for gawd’s sake PLEASE get some formal instruction. You’ve gone from spoiling her rotten to waaay too much physical force.

Neither one is good. She is obviously a more difficult type of filly (who is her sire again?), but the object is NOT to physically reprimand her constantly for every little thing.

Why does she have to go through a drainage ditch when she can’t even lead properly? Maybe work on that first. If she won’t go forward in a straight line, you ask her to go to the left or right.

Honestly, kiddo, there is so much I’m hearing from you that troubles me…please, please, PLEASE find someone who knows what they are doing to help you or send your filly out to board somewhere where they can do the work and you can go once a week or so and observe.

I’m not sure you can tell if this horse is definitely not afraid, because of your inexperience.

Ditto what EM said about everytime you touch a horse you are training. So I’m just seeing a filly that is learning a zillion and one ways to out-play you OR a filly that is going to be a nervous wreck because NOW she’s getting whacked on continually or yanked with a chain.

You really are better just leaving her in the pasture if you don’t have the skills and timing and feel to TEACH her.

Please, get some help!! Either through books & vids (and I’ve recommend several) or (ideally) through another person. Till then, leave her be.

EM – can I borrow your flame suit?*

#85

Sweet mother of mercy, the only reason I used a chain is because several people here suggested it! She can lead in a straight line. She’s quite good at leading in a straight line. She refuses to move when I ask her to walk through the “ditch”. I know she’s not afraid because she’s walked through ditches before… and REAL ditches, not the itty bitty thing she was being a snot about.

EM, I agree about doing nothing if we can’t do something good. Which is why I completely avoided the big bad scary ditch until she was behaving very well. At which point I decided to try walking her through the easiest part (a grassy slight depression). That’s when she was being naughty, and obviously at that point I couldn’t quit. I don’t like walking her with a long whip because it’s harder to keep out of the way. I’d rather use a crop even if it’s not ideal than use a whip and accidentally whack her because it’s too long.

If I suspect she’s going to be naughty, I do nothing or very very little with her (ie, halt a few times on the way to the barn, and no more). If she’s being good, then we do more.

Dear heavens, I give up. I try to use people’s ideas and I get yelled at. I don’t use people’s ideas and I get yelled at. I quit; I’ll go back to trial and error and making it up as I go.

Yeah, she’s a real scaredy cat. I’m clearly ruining her. (And she was gasp tied for the picture!)

#86

amastrike -

Breathe. :yes:

Ok, so, here’s the thing - like i’ve said before, I had a filly very similar to yours. Only reason i think i didn’t have nearly as much trouble as you are having is that mine was born with a keen, enthusiastic attitude toward people - she wanted to work, she wanted to learn new things, so she rarely ever gave me grief (once i laid down the law and showed her who was boss - at 1 day old).

But, every so often, she would plant her feet and refuse to do something. And i really thought it was just her being difficult, because of her demeanor when she did it. There was no typical “i’m scared” mannerisms, just a very matter-of-fact “nope, not going over that and you can’t make me - muwahaha”. One day, we encountered our first bridge on a solo hack (i think i’ve told this story before…). She was SO determined that day that she would NOT go over that bridge that she actually backed up, in a straight line, about 30 steps. :eek: :mad:

So, i didn’t get mad - i got even. I called my BO, she came out with her truck on the narrow dirt road (dead end country road), and BLOCKED the filly from backing up. Filly hit the truck, shot forward towards the bridge, and my BO inched the truck forward. Filly stopped, backed up a step, hit the truck, shot forward. You get the picture.

All of a sudden a lightbulb went off, and she was like “oh crap, i’m actually going to have to do this”. And THEN she got scared. She arched her neck, she snorted, she pranced, and finally she scooted across the bridge. Was never an issue again.

This filly was afraid of very little, and i could also toss anything on her back and she couldn’t have cared less. But just because she was fearless in nature, didn’t mean that once in a while she didn’t have little fears about things (she was deathly afraid of pigs the first time she saw them - but minis? small children on bikes? cows? pff - no problem).

So you said in your post earlier today that when your girl finally went over said ditch, she did it quickly. Just like mine, she gave in and scooted across it. If she wasn’t at least a little bit afraid, she would have just given in and been all nonchalant about it and walked over it calmly. But she didn’t - she scooted across it because she was a little bit nervous, for whatever random reason horses are nervous about silly stuff we don’t understand. The reason she didn’t act scared at first is because she had no intention of going over it - so why be worried? :wink:

So, i would agree with Kyzteke, ditch the chain, get a long dressage whip (and if you hold it in your left hand with the lead rope in your right, there should be no awkwardness and the whip should not “get in the way”) but rely more on your body language and voice. And keep doing what you did to get her over the ditch - she goes forward, praise. Another step, vocal praise. Wait her out.

You have made your point re: you being alpha, you have seen her demeanor change around you - you say she’s still balking every so often, but i’m curious - has she nailed you again since you laid down the law?

#87

Here is the deal – you cannot teach someone how to train a horse through an online BB. Because training horses is more about timing & feel & looking at the horse.

Instead of getting your knickers all twisted up and just deciding you are going to start “making it up as I go along” why not find someone experienced in your area who can teach you?

THIS is what most of us have suggested from the very beginning, and would truly be the best solution for both you & the filly. I’m not sure why you are so resistant to this idea.

And if you honestly can’t find a pro in your area (and by “pro” I mean someone who has successfully raised many, many foals into well-mannered, polite horses), then get some of the many books & videos I’ve suggested via PMs.

I will be the first to say books & videos are a sorry second choice, but using a BB as your training source ranks even lower in terms of effectiveness.

To say “use a chain” is simple to type, but it’s not so simple to use correctly, and overuse of it can really make a baby headshy. This is a perfect example of a tool that can be effective if it is used properly, but can be cruel & counter productive if it’s not. And the razor-thin difference is when & how you use it…again, timing & feel. And you cannot learn that OR teach it through a BB.

Seriously Amastrike, there is no place for ego in training horses, so if you really care about your filly (and I’m sure you do), then find someone to TEACH you more about handling foals.

And don’t blame the filly – she is just being a horse.

Whew…good thing I still have my flame suit on…

PS I just went to YouTube and typed in “Teaching A Foal to Lead” about a zillion responses came up. I have neither the time nor the bandwidth to “vet” them all, but even watching those over and over again is better than just “making it up as you go along.”

#88

That parking and stopping thing seems to be a phase that some horses go through.

All my young horses have tried it, with varying degrees of persistence. The dumb horses try it the longest. The Arabian realized quickly it was no fun.

I learned my response from cough Parelli cough. Hoo. Pardon me there.

Anyway, the strategy is to just take a secure stance and apply pressure on the halter continuously, not looking back, heading in the direction of travel. As soon as the horse moves forward, he releases the pressure on the halter himself. Don’t park yourself at the end of the lead, that’s what Parelli says to do, but I hate having the horse trailed out behind me. You just basically freeze in the “leading” position, with SOLID pressure on the lead. Lean your body forward slightly, and try to lead with your shoulder a tiny bit whenever you ask for “forward”…when asking for halts, lean your shoulders back slightly just before you ask. The baby horse will quickly learn about this “half halt” into a transition. When horse moves, he releases himself. No talking, clucking, nothing. Once he moves, just continue a few steps, THEN ask for a halt and reward him profusely. It can take a long damn time.

As I mentioned, the draft x babies try this a lot. My draft x babies have all had more “cold blood” in them than hot. They keep testing to make sure that you’re consistent. That’s one of the most important parts about teaching them. They want to understand the job, and they want to know what to expect from you. They need processing time. The Arab? He tried the parking once or twice but quickly got bored. Way more fun to go for a walk with me.

#89

Please listen to the last 2 posts of Kyzteke. And another poster mentioned chucking her out for the winter and letting her grow up. At this stage you both need a break from each other. That probably sounds rude but leaving one be for a bit can work wonders.

Due to the incredible amount of rain we’ve had here the last month I had to bring my yearling in at night earlier than I’d like. Every now and again she pretends she was never handled. Last week she refused to walk through mud. Planted her little feet and wasn’t moving. Hello, this is Ireland, you have to deal with mud. So back in barn for dressage whip. I didn’t start pulling and dragging out of her or get chains, just had my whip. Again, planted her feet in mud. She got a little smack behind, had a strop, backed up the muckpit and then walked out like she was supposed to. Had to yell at husband in the evening when he was leading her in like a goat while on the phone!

At any rate, resorting to all sorts of tough girl tactics on my part aren’t going to work. As a youngster she will have her moments. We get through them quickly without much fuss on either of our parts. You have to be consistent and sometimes less is more. You are trying very hard but listening to too many ideas. It is about feel, timing, and the individual. The filly above, I raised her 3 TB brothers too. Talk about little temper tantrum throwers! Much worse than her. But her now 3yo TB brother can be hacked out by owners 12 YO daughter. She takes care of him as well. This was a baby that chose to throw himself down when things didn’t go his way! By the time he came along I knew it would eventually be ok. I had to keep my head and not over think the situation.

Terri

#90

It’s funny, really, because on the whole I have no complaints about her behavior. Yeah, stopping and planting was annoying, but whatever. We got through it fine and she was a lady after. The change in her the past couple of weeks has been incredible. She’s made no move to kick me, not even a hint that she’s thought about it. She knows what “whoa” means, to the point that I can say whoa and keep walking, and she’ll plant her little feet. That’s not rock solid yet, but it’s darn good in my book. She got her feet done last week. Not perfect, but much improved from last time, and she got better fast. She ties (cross and straight) nicely. She’s pleasant, polite, and happy to see me.

I post with questions when we’re having an issue, so you don’t see the whole picture. It’s easy to read the posts and take it to mean I have an incorrigible, dangerous, nasty filly who is learning to be terrified of people because they’re mean to her. I’ve known her since she was 20 minutes old. I bottle fed her because she wouldn’t get her lazy little butt up until she was 6 hours old. She’s gone from being darn near impossible to catch to begging for attention. From rearing when leading to willingly going virtually anywhere I take her. From being a brat to being a (slightly bratty) little lady. Taking advice where I get it and making things up as I go has worked pretty well so far. I understand where the concern is coming from, but I have more context for the situation.

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