[QUOTE=Beverley;7117198]
Yep, indicator of cow genes but poor form. Pinning ears and wrinkling nose, fine. My little mare is bred for working cows and she nipped at one when we were playing with some cattle in the arena one day (had never done it when working cattle). She got corrected and it hasn’t happened since.
Following up on what Bluey said- in the instance where my mare went to nip, these were indeed tough cattle and not responding to position and other cues. So she escalated. We have a sheep dog trial here over Labor Day weekend where I’ve seen much the same thing- the sheep they use are wild as can be and championship level sheepdogs will nip if their standard tried and true techniques don’t work. At that one trials, the judge does not have to dq them automatically, because the sheep are so tough. But many handlers elect to withdraw their dogs if they draw really tough sheep, rather than fry the dog’s mind.
My gelding, in contrast, the make love not war guy, will lick cattle every chance he gets. And when moving cattle will gently bump the babies with his muzzle to make sure they keep up with Momma. BTW he was undone by the aforementioned sour cattle that the mare nipped at- his reaction was to just back off with a question mark between his ears. He’s appendix qh.[/QUOTE]
That is right, when driving from behind, with cattle going somewhere and so having a way to get away and a choice not to engage the horse, your horse (or dog) can be more aggressive if you want to keep them moving faster, or have the stragglers catch up.
We used to train border collies to work cattle.
In trials you didn’t use totally wild cattle, but at least somewhat “dog broke” cattle.
You may have some wild ones in there, but all wild cattle won’t really herd and let you show what your dog can do.
I have known some cattle dogs that can round up antelope and you can’t get much wilder than that, but you really don’t want to ask your dog to do that for time and it won’t always work.
With horses, it depends on how your horse works cattle if it is effective.
The kind of cutting they do in the arena, now that is very specific and horses have been bred just for that kind of working cattle.
It is amazing to see a talented colt bred like that “see” cattle for the first time.
They kind of stop, squat and almost start to shake, instinct taking over, similar to a puppy that just turned on to herding.
They don’t crowd or much less pin ears and bite, they are by instinct already at the right distance to keep that cow pinned there.
Getting aggressive comes later with familiarity and distraction, if you let them get themselves in that situation and is something you don’t want in an arena cutter, but don’t mind in a ranch horse, that may have some time to get some respect from a sour cow getting on the war path.
By far there is no chasing or biting at all in arena cutting, it is pure mesmerized focus on that animal/s in front of them.
Now the trainer has to nurture and guide that intensity into being useful to work the livestock in real life or for the show arena.
And no, team penning/sorting is nothing like that, but chasing around stock.:rolleyes:
Not that it is not technical in itself, but herding it is not, cutting it is not.
A horse without any cow can be an excellent penner when well trained, because it is a learned skill that requires athleticism, but not much “cow sense”, as many penner horses never hardly get to really “see” their cattle.
There are all kinds of ways of working cattle and we adjust ourselves and our horses to whatever you are doing.
