My hunter under saddle horse in the making

[RugBug]

OP, I quite like your horse.

As you’ve already found out, most of us on this forum won’t have much in the way of advice because AQHA hunters is a very different world from what we do. It DOES look like Wenglish to us. The nuances that you can see between a western horse and an AQHA english horse are lost on me (and many of us) because it’s just not correct Hunt Seat Equitation even though it is called the same thing.

[QUOTE=doublesstable;7407284]

Here is a breed QH type in the Hunters (and as you can see it is very different)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBQfZGcHnuk[/QUOTE]

Ugh. The “posting” makes my eyes…and probably those horses’ backs, hurt. I imagine these are fairly experienced riders, but their posting makes them look like total beginners.

[QUOTE=Punkie;7407975]I’m going to preface this with the fact that I’m a helmet person 1000000%; every time, every ride, no matter what!!

That being said, helmets don’t actually prevent concussions. In the most basic terms, a concussion occurs when the brain connects with the skull with any force. A helmet cannot prevent this as it is an internal process. It absorbs the shock, absolutely, but if your head hits the ground with a helmet, there can still be a concussive incident to the brain. A helmet will reduce the trauma, but it won’t prevent a concussion all together. What a helmet DOES prevent (or reduce by a great magnitude) is a TBI (traumatic brain injury). By absorbing the shock and cushioning the skull, it helps to prevent open skull fractures, damage to the brain stem (which is not something typically involved in a concussion), crush injuries to the head, and diffuse damage from blunt force trauma. Essentially all of the things that can leave you with permanent damage or cause death. [/QUOTE]

Actually Punkie, you aren’t quite correct. A helmet CAN prevent a concussion, but it’s probably one on a milder scale. And a helmet will often reduce the severity of a concussion from a major hit the head. It’s a matter of degrees.

If the helmet can absorb enough of the energy to keep the brain from sloshing, there will be no concussion. It’s just like the old science experiment of dropping an egg from a high distance. If the contraption the egg is in can absorb enough of the energy from the fall, the egg does not break. Helmets work very similarly.

[TSWJB]

Beowulf, while we are trying to improve the horse, its also important to help the rider! Did she hear about the WEF rider that died of a TBI this weekend! Helmet usage is very important! She asked for help. She is getting our opinions. I had a concussion. I fell off and hit my head. Walked out of the ring and didn’t remember a thing. I didn’t even know who the president was or what happened to my horse. Its no joke! I remember coming too and seeing my trainer and the emt staring into my face. I came too like a movie when its black and then opens up. I was wondering why my trainer and emt were staring in my face soon close. I couldn’t repeat #'s given to me to repeat. Yet I had a cat scan at the toon of 2500 bucks and I was fine. If I didn’t have a helmet on, I bet I wouldn’t be able to function normally like I can today. Wear a helmet!!!

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=TSWJB;7409423]
Beowulf, while we are trying to improve the horse, its also important to help the rider! Did she hear about the WEF rider that died of a TBI this weekend! Helmet usage is very important! She asked for help. She is getting our opinions. I had a concussion. I fell off and hit my head. Walked out of the ring and didn’t remember a thing. I didn’t even know who the president was or what happened to my horse. Its no joke! I remember coming too and seeing my trainer and the emt staring into my face. I came too like a movie when its black and then opens up. I was wondering why my trainer and emt were staring in my face soon close. I couldn’t repeat #'s given to me to repeat. Yet I had a cat scan at the toon of 2500 bucks and I was fine. If I didn’t have a helmet on, I bet I wouldn’t be able to function normally like I can today. Wear a helmet!!![/QUOTE]

I agree, wearing a helmet is paramount to your safety when participating in equine activities. Believe me, I’ve been there. I sustained a severe concussion my sophomore year in college, and I was wearing a CO. It saved my life, and I will never ride without one.

That being said, this poster is not a child - she is able to form her own opinion. Whether or not you agree is irrelevant. She has a right to her opinion, as do you. She didn’t ask for critique of her outfit - she asked for critique of her horse and riding. A helmet doesn’t affect your riding ability. It will not change your position, nor will it alter the security of your seat. It will affect whether or not you continue to ride after an accident, however… :yes:

It’s one thing if a poster comments once on this thread saying “please wear a helmet”. It is another thing entirely when you post over five times in this thread about the lack of a helmet. That is beating a dead horse with a stick.

[Punkie]

[QUOTE=RugBug;7409274]
OP, I quite like your horse.

As you’ve already found out, most of us on this forum won’t have much in the way of advice because AQHA hunters is a very different world from what we do. It DOES look like Wenglish to us. The nuances that you can see between a western horse and an AQHA english horse are lost on me (and many of us) because it’s just not correct Hunt Seat Equitation even though it is called the same thing.

Ugh. The “posting” makes my eyes…and probably those horses’ backs, hurt. I imagine these are fairly experienced riders, but their posting makes them look like total beginners.

Actually Punkie, you aren’t quite correct. A helmet CAN prevent a concussion, but it’s probably one on a milder scale. And a helmet will often reduce the severity of a concussion from a major hit the head. It’s a matter of degrees.

If the helmet can absorb enough of the energy to keep the brain from sloshing, there will be no concussion. It’s just like the old science experiment of dropping an egg from a high distance. If the contraption the egg is in can absorb enough of the energy from the fall, the egg does not break. Helmets work very similarly.[/QUOTE]

I think you misread my point and there is some much newer research out there that concurs with this (I can do a lit search if you want, but it will have to wait until morning!); this information is coming from Dr. Walter Panis and the Sports Medicine Concussion Clinic at MGH (http://www.massgeneral.org/children/services/treatmentprograms.aspx?id=1689) He’s one of the leading TBI and concussive specialists in the country. I had the privilege of spending a day with him in clinics back in May and have consulted him as recently as 2 weeks ago and had an extensive discussion on this topic. He actually has an excellent and very succinct powerpoint on the topic; if you’re interested, I can see if I can get a copy and email it.

Helmets CAN reduce the severity of a concussion, but unfortunately, there is nothing on the market that can completely prevent concussion as it the actual event that leads to a concussive syndrome is an internal one. If the impact is hard enough, a concussion will ensue. And that’s true with a riding helmet, a football helmet, a motorcycle helmet…makes no difference.

Think about it this way, whiplash without a concussive incident can actually cause a concussion; so if there is a coup-contrecoup incident even with that helmet intact, the concussion can still occur simply from the force of the neck sending the head in one direction and then the other.

If the fall is “soft” enough, or if the head is not the first thing to strike the ground, then yes, a helmet might absorb enough of the impact for the rider to not experience any concussive symptoms. But that doesn’t mean that a concussive event hasn’t occurred. The brain as still been “rattled” (for lack of a better term) and there is a good chance that micro damage to neurons has also occurred. This may not result in any deficits, but that also varies from person to person. Two people might have identical accidents and very different outcomes from those falls.

The point still remains that wearing a helmet is of utmost importance! Someday, we will have something that does as good of a job preventing concussion as they do preventing TBIs!

[Crown_Royal]

[QUOTE=Bristol Bay;7407087]

Check out the equestrians with disabilities forum. There’s a poster on there with a constant headache from a concussion. She was riding without a helmet. Same poster took a ration of sh!t a couple of years ago for the same thing as you. She posted a video for a critique in which she was riding without a helmet.[/QUOTE]

I’m that poster. OP- seriously…you don’t realize how important a helmet could be until you or someone close to you has an injury when they don’t have one on.

I didn’t use to put much thought into it and usually flatted with a helmet (but not always) and always jumped with one on. Recently (the last year or so) I really thought about it and decided it wasn’t worth it to ride without one because who knows what could happen. And guess what? Hurt yourself badly enough and you won’t get to ever ride again. Not okay, at least not for me.

I fell off my saintly young horse November 23, 2013 without a helmet. I had already worked him and was hanging out, standing still, talking to my friend that was mounted on her horse. I was relaxing, sitting sideways in my saddle, on a quiet horse that rarely ever spooks, ready to get off, and had just taken off my helmet (but was still mounted). My gelding reached over a little too far to sniff my friend’s mare and she squealed and tried to kick out at him. My saintly horse jumped over sideways just a foot or two to get away from her kicking, and put me on the ground. I landed flat on my butt and the back of my head in a freshly dragged, soft sand arena and didn’t feel any pain. One week later, I started getting severe headaches CONSTANTLY. Every day. All day. Nausea, dizziness, sensitivity to light and noise, and guess what? It’s now February 2, 2014 (do the math) and I STILL have severe headaches. I’ve had a visit to my doctor, two ER visits, several scans, and a neurologist appointment this Wednesday with no answers or pain relief. Probably had a concussion and now have post concussive syndrome, and it sucks. Even with high pain tolerance on my part, it sucks. And I’m 20.

Please wear your helmet from the time you are mounting your horse to the time your feet touch the ground again. Stupid things happen…even when you’re standing still on quiet horses and are only removing your helmet for a moment.

[Madeline]

Not to be too pesky, but unless two people died at WEF this weekend, the one who died had a heart attack. A helmet, though a really good idea if you have something in your head worth protecting, would not have helped in this case.

[asterix]

Nope, she had a TBI and died in surgery, see post 39 on that thread. Moot point as she was obviously wearing a helmet competing over fences.
I don’t know how to change people’s minds either. I have no idea, honestly, why you wouldn’t wear a helmet. Incomprehensible.

[TSWJB]

Yes first reports were that the rider died of a heart attack but later it was pointed out she was in surgery for a TBI. And died of a heart attack in surgery. The point is that people die from falls and hitting their heads. Its serious stuff. Why wouldn’t you want to do everything you can prevent it.
Beowulf I disagree with you. She asked for a critique and that can include why would you do something dangerous while asking us about improving your horse. Personally don’t post things helmet less if you don’t want to hear it. Because its a big issue lately!

[Madeline]

[QUOTE=asterix;7409660]
Nope, she had a TBI and died in surgery, see post 39 on that thread. Moot point as she was obviously wearing a helmet competing over fences.
I don’t know how to change people’s minds either. I have no idea, honestly, why you wouldn’t wear a helmet. Incomprehensible.[/QUOTE]
Sorry, I was a day late with my info. I don’t think that there will be a change in Western land on helmets until USEF mandates it. And that probably is not going to happen without a big lawsuit. “OK, USEF, why do you require helmets in some disciplines but not all?” “Well, it isn’t traditional” “But you know that helmets reduce the severity of many head injuries, right? That’s why you require some riders to use them.” “Yes, but it isn’t traditional.” “Pay the plaintiff $X,000,000. You have known better for decades.”

[cuatx55]

Guys take it to another thread, the OP gets the point. No need to dig this into a helmet thread. Sometimes people need to just take a step back and a deep breath.

All the HUS paint/pinto/QH hunt riders I know do NOT wear helmets. It’s their choice.

OP- nice start, the nose should be out a tad more, but the transitions will help that. I agree with the transitions and do LOTS of figures and circles. Get off the rail. My one issue with most HUS horses is they lack true suppleness side to side and front to back. They “pose” pretty but its not really effective.

Jane Savoie has a nice book about cross training (actually books 1 and 2), you might want to look at it.

[huntseat3]

[QUOTE=beowulf;7409057]
Really? You’ve blasted your piece at least 4x already. No amount of bludgeoning home your opinion is going to change anyone’s mind - if anything, it is just going to drive OP to do the opposite, because at this point, you are harassing her.

I mean well, and I’d like to hope you mean well, but give it a rest. The OP has been very polite and composed deflecting your posts thus far. I respect your opinion to wear a helmet, and agree 100%, but the OP is free to make her own decisions and if you don’t like it, you don’t need to post here anymore.[/QUOTE]

Thank you. That is how I feel. That poster has kept coming back, why I don’t know-she’s made her point and is now just being extremely annoying.
I understand the helmet thing, and why I should wear one. I truly do. But no need to badger me about it. (Not you beowulf, laurierace)

[huntseat3]

[QUOTE=Laurierace;7409088]
Whatever.[/QUOTE]
May I ask why you keep coming back? You’ve made your point.

[huntseat3]

[QUOTE=beowulf;7409453]
I agree, wearing a helmet is paramount to your safety when participating in equine activities. Believe me, I’ve been there. I sustained a severe concussion my sophomore year in college, and I was wearing a CO. It saved my life, and I will never ride without one.

That being said, this poster is not a child - she is able to form her own opinion. Whether or not you agree is irrelevant. She has a right to her opinion, as do you. She didn’t ask for critique of her outfit - she asked for critique of her horse and riding. A helmet doesn’t affect your riding ability. It will not change your position, nor will it alter the security of your seat. It will affect whether or not you continue to ride after an accident, however… :yes:

It’s one thing if a poster comments once on this thread saying “please wear a helmet”. It is another thing entirely when you post over five times in this thread about the lack of a helmet. That is beating a dead horse with a stick.[/QUOTE]

Right. Wearing a helmet or not does not affect how my horse moves or my position in this video. That’s a whole separate safety thing; but it should have nothing to do with your willingness to comment.

[huntseat3]

[QUOTE=TSWJB;7409672]
Yes first reports were that the rider died of a heart attack but later it was pointed out she was in surgery for a TBI. And died of a heart attack in surgery. The point is that people die from falls and hitting their heads. Its serious stuff. Why wouldn’t you want to do everything you can prevent it.
Beowulf I disagree with you. She asked for a critique and that can include why would you do something dangerous while asking us about improving your horse. Personally don’t post things helmet less if you don’t want to hear it. Because its a big issue lately![/QUOTE]
Let me rephrase then-
I want a critique on how my horse moves and my leg/seat/arm position. Has nothing to do with my head.

[huntseat3]

If you must say something, tell me I should wear a helmet, and move on.

[King_Creole]

Hi OP, what is your horse’s breeding? From his name, he may be related to my guy

Well then. Maybe I should have watched the video first since the info is there! lol. Nope, not related to my guy. His reg. name is You Bet Im Sweet…so I figured yours may have had some Art I Sweet in him!

[RxCate]

I hate to break it to ya OP, but breed show english flat classes & western pleasure are essentially the same thing with different tack. The horses move the same (maybe western is slower), but what other posters have said about going to the western forum is right. They can better assist you, no matter what tack you have on him. Riding is riding anyway. Western riders need to get their horses engaged from behind just as much as you do and they can help you go about it the right way.

They also will lay off the helmet issue as they’ve been desensitized to people not wearing them, if they show predominantly breed.

Do you have a trainer? I didn’t see if you said that.

You can also look on youtube for HUS flat exercises. I’m sure there’s tons out there.

[CruzN]

[QUOTE=huntseat3;7410044]
Thank you. That is how I feel. That poster has kept coming back, why I don’t know-she’s made her point and is now just being extremely annoying.
I understand the helmet thing, and why I should wear one. I truly do. But no need to badger me about it. (Not you beowulf, laurierace)[/QUOTE]

Not sure if you are aware, since you are new to the forum, but you can ‘ignore’ a poster so that you can’t see any of their posts. Just click on a user’s name, then ‘view profile’ and there should be a link to ignore that poster. In this case, it’s not like you will be missing any important information from said poster!
Anyways, cute horse! You will probably get better critiques from the western forum- not because HUS is western pleasure in English tack (which many people in this forum will try and tell you) but because they are more familiar with how the class is judged and with what is winning right now.

[huntseat3]

[QUOTE=CruzN;7410592]
Not sure if you are aware, since you are new to the forum, but you can ‘ignore’ a poster so that you can’t see any of their posts. Just click on a user’s name, then ‘view profile’ and there should be a link to ignore that poster. In this case, it’s not like you will be missing any important information from said poster!
Anyways, cute horse! You will probably get better critiques from the western forum- not because HUS is western pleasure in English tack (which many people in this forum will try and tell you) but because they are more familiar with how the class is judged and with what is winning right now.[/QUOTE]
Thanks

[doublesstable]

[QUOTE=CruzN;7410592]
You will probably get better critiques from the western forum- not because HUS is western pleasure in English tack (which many people in this forum will try and tell you) but because they are more familiar with how the class is judged and with what is winning right now.[/QUOTE]

QH Western Pleasure

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UZimnORXRI

QH Hunter Pleasure

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5ORmawyK_k

I have no clue what they are looking for because it looks all kinds of wrong to me - but - have been around horses long enough - to see the difference is the horse in the Western is going slower, a bit of a smaller horse and in Western tack…

And clearly in many of the QH Hunter under saddle videos they are in violation of their own regulations on head carriage.

Thought this would qualify as a topic on this thread since the OP is riding a QH huntseat.

RULES -

"In AQHA’s “Official Handbook of Rules & Regulations,” rule 464(a) describes the proper movement and head carriage for the hunter under saddle horse. It specifically states that, “the poll should be level with, or slightly above the withers, to allow proper impulsion behind. The head position should be slightly in front of, or on the vertical.” Additionally, rules 464 (e) (5,8,9and 11) and rules 464(f) (1 and 2) are in place to ensure that horses are penalized or disqualified which do not conform to the rules of the class.