My mare doesn't respect my personal space...

[mockingjay.one]

I recently got my mare back from my parents. She’s had ~6 years with no training or riding, she’s just been sitting in the pasture. She has ringbone, but she is not lame from it.

She does not respect my personal space whatsoever: she will not yield the forequarters on the ground (but she will yield the hind), she is not an active backer-upper, she doesn’t respond to the halter well or getting pops on the chest, and she has no problem running you over. And she has two speeds: dull, unresponsive horse and completely over-reacting freaking out horse. Now, I’ve trained a few horses to yield the forequarters, but I also had their respect. Does anyone have tips for gaining respect from a horse WITHOUT lunging it? My go-to is the roundpen, it always works for me. But I don’t think I can lunge her with the ringbone without causing tons of stress to the joint.

[Flash44]

Why not just do ground work without lunging her? You don’t have to put her in a round pen to train her.

[clanter]

I wouldn’t jump to the conclusion she doesn’t respect you as she may be protecting herself from pain.

We have one with ringbone and I know he would move if he could

Does anyone have tips for gaining respect from a horse WITHOUT lunging it?

I rarely ever used lunging other than to check for soundness. We do have all of our horses, even the brainless TB mare, working on voice commands… we tell them what we intend for them to do and they will eventually learn to do as asked.

[cutter99]

I NEVER lunge my horses and not one of them would dare to invade my personal space. It is an issue of them respecting you and the boundaries.

Anytime your horse dares to break the bubble of your personal space, she needs to be corrected and let know that this is a very bad thing with consequences.

Personally, I am comfortable working with a lead shank with a chain, but I also know I can do this without causing permenent damage to either the horse or myself. She needs to not only pay attention to you, but also needs to respect you.

This might be a great opportunity to work with a professional trainer who can demonstrate the best way to discipline your horse, when to do it, and how to be consistent.

[beau159]

How do you know she is not lame? Have to taken her to an equine lameness specialist?
When were her teeth done last?
Chiro?
Farrier?

Especially when you are bringing a horse back from a long break (with a known health issue), it will make your life easier to get her totally checked over.

Horses do what you allow them to. Quite clearly, she’s picked up some bad habits in the last 6 years.

If she doesn’t respond to you “popping” her, then your not doing something right (timing, reaction, intensity, etc). The type of horse that has zero respect for you and will run you over, is a very dangerous horse. It doesn’t sound like you even know where to begin with her, so I would find a trainer to help you.

You don’t need a round pen to create manners. Every second you are with your horse, you are training them, whether you realize it or not.

Again, I’d be getting her checked out by the vet and finding a trainer, but in the meantime you can google “Clinton Anderson”. I like his training method because he explains what he is doing and why and WHEN.

[Beverley]

If she’s yours, and she was well behaved for you before she had her 6 year vacation, I can’t imagine it won’t come back soon with your simply handling her as you did before. Horses don’t forget. In any event, if she’s had six years of nothingness, fitness is a consideration too. You just have to start backing up slowly before you can regain ‘activeness.’ And otherwise, just consistent defining of the boundaries and what’s expected ought to work.

[s_arah]

My 9 month old filly doesn’t respect my bubble either and I do ground work, lunging, and give her great rewards for listening but she only respects me when I have her on a halter and not in the pasture so I don’t know if you and I have the same problem but I think we both want to know HOW to earn respect not the fact it is good to earn respect! Not trying to down anyone though for commenting.

[Wirt]

This is where a flag comes in handy.
It sound like she crowds you with her front end, and her head.

You can swing that flag right in her face, seriously enough that she will move her feet.

If a horse is persistent enough, and somehow learned to be belligerent about it enough, a hard smack right across the bridge of the nose with the flag, or the end of it even, might be warranted. It is only going to take once, or twice, to make your point.

[Flash44]

[QUOTE=Wirt;8057249]
This is where a flag comes in handy.
It sound like she crowds you with her front end, and her head.

You can swing that flag right in her face, seriously enough that she will move her feet.

If a horse is persistent enough, and somehow learned to be belligerent about it enough, a hard smack right across the bridge of the nose with the flag, or the end of it even, might be warranted. It is only going to take once, or twice, to make your point.[/QUOTE]

Good accurate post.

I’ll add that it’s way more likely that she’s just learned some bad habits, and can unlearn them pretty easily. Lots of good info online regarding getting respect and getting a horse to respect your personal space.

[beau159]

[QUOTE=s_arah;8057027]
I think we both want to know HOW to earn respect not the fact it is good to earn respect! [/QUOTE]

By having good TIMING, which is something that can’t be taught over the internet. Best to have a trainer with you in-person to give you instant feedback on if your timing is too soon, too late, etc when you are either making a correction or giving a reward.

[s_arah]

ok thank you and my filly has gotten a little better over this week it has been warmer and so I have been working her more

[ragrobin4]

Sorry to get off topic, but you said " horse don’t forget." I was told by a trainer, that if a horse bits, you have 3 seconds to correct it or they forget what they have done.

[Kyzteke]

[QUOTE=s_arah;8057027]
My 9 month old filly doesn’t respect my bubble either and I do ground work, lunging, and give her great rewards for listening but she only respects me when I have her on a halter and not in the pasture so I don’t know if you and I have the same problem but I think we both want to know HOW to earn respect not the fact it is good to earn respect! Not trying to down anyone though for commenting.[/QUOTE]

This is waaay too complicated a subject to explain in one post on a BB. But to say it briefly “whatever you are doing, you are not doing correctly.” You may be giving to many treats. Your timing may be off. YOu may actually be inviting her into your space without realizing it. So many possibilities.

But it’s very possible to train a horse to respect your space without lunging them or a round pen. Buck Brannamen does alot of training without a round pen (or lunging) as does Parelli. Both have lots of books & videos. I’m not sure about Clinton Anderson, but I’m sure others on this board know.

They are all doing basically the same thing – they just use different names and might do them in a different order.

My guess (and it is just a guess) is that both you & the OP are allowing/inviting the horse to enter your space without realizing you are doing it.

I have totally lost count of people who do this without even realizing how/when you are doing it. Even a slight “sway” backwards can seem to the horse as “permission”…and most folks will actually take 1/2 to 1 step backwards as the horse moves towards them.

To the horse, it might as well be an engraved invitation. :winkgrin:

[Kyzteke]

[QUOTE=ragrobin4;8077881]
Sorry to get off topic, but you said " horse don’t forget." I was told by a trainer, that if a horse bits, you have 3 seconds to correct it or they forget what they have done.[/QUOTE]

They don’t forget…it’s just that the power of the correction is greatly diluted if you wait. They don’t forget they’ve bitten you – it’s just if you wait too long, they don’t get the connection that the correction is for biting and not something else.

But you can bet they haven’t forgotten…just wait till they try it again.

[SuzieQNutter]

[QUOTE=ragrobin4;8077881]
Sorry to get off topic, but you said " horse don’t forget." I was told by a trainer, that if a horse bits, you have 3 seconds to correct it or they forget what they have done.[/QUOTE]

Horses don’t forget.

Horses also don’t reason. That is why your timing has to be correct. If you use the incorrect timing you will teach the horse the opposite of what you want. Even 3 seconds can be too late, it really needs to be immediate.

Horses don’t reason. A horse will load back onto a float that has rolled because they can’t work out that it could happen again, whereas they will not load into a float if they have spent a journey with hay going into their eyes or bad driving.

An octopus can work out how to unscrew a jar to get food out of it.

A horse will die of starvation if a bale of hay is on top of a wardrobe as they cannot work out to knock it down with the rake leaning against it.

Showjumpers have died in a paddock with no water with fences lower than what they jump each week under a rider.

[Kyzteke]

[QUOTE=SuzieQNutter;8078398]
Horses don’t forget.

Horses don’t reason. A horse will load back onto a float that has rolled because they can’t work out that it could happen again, whereas they will not load into a float if they have spent a journey with hay going into their eyes or bad driving.

An octopus can work out how to unscrew a jar to get food out of it.

A horse will die of starvation if a bale of hay is on top of a wardrobe as they cannot work out to knock it down with the rake leaning against it.

Showjumpers have died in a paddock with no water with fences lower than what they jump each week under a rider.[/QUOTE]

What’s a “float?”

Also, horses can & do “reason” but their reasoning sometimes is rather hit & miss. For instance some horses are absolutely brilliant at opening gates & latches. And horses in a blizzard will dig through the snow to get to the grass below, whereas cattle will actually die of starvation.

So it just depends. But I agree with the timing aspect…that is probably THE most critical component of horse training & riding.

You can get better results performing a cue/aid sloppily but at the right time than you will doing the cue perfectly but at the wrong time.

[merrygoround]

[QUOTE=ragrobin4;8077881]
Sorry to get off topic, but you said " horse don’t forget." I was told by a trainer, that if a horse bits, you have 3 seconds to correct it or they forget what they have done.[/QUOTE]

They don’t forget that they bit you and don’t ever think they do. But, you need instant response to the bite so they relate the response to their action. You don’t see a horse waiting a minute to react to a nip from a pasture mate. Nope The response is usually a squeal and a returned bigger bite and/or a kick.

Kyzteke-“What’s a “float?””

That’s what those silly people from down under call a trailer.

[rcloisonne]

A float is what we call a trailer.

[californianinkansas]

What would the lead mare in a herd to do your mare in this situation?

[Flash44]

[QUOTE=rcloisonne;8079887]
A float is what we call a trailer.[/QUOTE]

LOL, I was thinking about parade floats until I figured it out…