My young horse doesn't like my posting? UPDATE: ulcers confirmed

[blue_heron]

Honestly I can’t remember how many. I think it was four and then gave three after a bit. Neither dose made any difference that I could tell.

One horse was on both. I had treated first horse with Ulcergard and sucralfate and had an enormous bottle that I didn’t finish, so I tried giving the Nexium and sucralfate to the second horse when I suspected he had ulcers. Maybe a slight improvement which I tend to attribute to the sucralfate so we decided to scope and found ulcers which I then treated with the full Ulcergard and sucralfate.

[GraceLikeRain]

@JB

Would you mind telling me what dose you used? I’m always curious of the “didn’t work” crowd typically uses the lowest studied dose, which is 2-3 (accounting for a bit extra) capsules.

I honestly don’t know any more but I would have done the max recommended. I’ve let myself toss her binder of vet records now that she’s gone.

She ended up having vicious ulcers that took 4 months of treating and scoping to get back to a grade 1 with all areas of her stomach being impacted. In her case chronic pain ended up being an underlying factor perpetuating the ulcers (vet hypothesis).

We scoped 30 days into Nexium and there were bleeding areas so I guess it could have been helping but alone it definitely wouldn’t have healed her stomach nor would we have had any baseline for progress. Given the improvement in the next 30 days on a Rx combo I just personally couldnt recommend Nexium as a blanket approach for suspected maybe possibly stomach ulcers since it takes away a baseline opportunity.

[Simkie]

@CanteringCarrot

I’m quite curious as to why it would work for some and wouldn’t for others.

Probably the biggest reason here is what’s in the stomach at time of dosing. A belly full of fiber really limits efficacy. That can be overcome with a higher dose. (Or fasting/targeting the dose for when the stomach is empty.) Goes for esomeprazole or omeprazole both.

But it’s definitely multifactorial. Different types of ulcers respond differently. Different horses metabolize drugs differently. Prior use may also impact efficacy.

[BayBondGirl]

@S1969

Just wondering what makes you think they are the risk - other than moving or the behaviors you are seeing that could be saddle.

Yes, the moving too many times is what I meant by that, I could have been more clear in my OP!

The barn manager at our current location feels that she is an anxious horse, which I sort of concur with… She’s not spooky, but worries easily. She looks to humans for comfort and will start to lick my arms when she’s feeling anxious about something if I’m on the ground with her (mostly appointment situations).

Those who have suggested saddle: we have a number of saddle “fitters” in our area but they are almost all reps and I don’t trust them. The one I use is the only truly independent fitter in our area. There is one I would really trust in the next province over, but she almost never travels out here.

I am absolutely willing to try other saddles, and I may actually have a way of testing my bareback pad in a way that allows me to trot in it… I’ll try that this coming week and report back!

Edited to add I really am inclined to believe she IS getting pain from the saddle, but one thing I forgot to mention is that her first saddle was a totally different brand and style from the dressage saddle we have, BUT it was about 4 months into our riding journey using that saddle, after a barn move, that the issues started. She wasn’t on the turn out or diet that we currently have when the issues started. When we got this new dressage saddle, it didn’t show any discomfort initially, and we rode lightly with it for about 3 months before the issues came back again.

Just because I’ve already bought the Nexium, I’m going to run it for the 3 weeks I got (80mg dose which is 4 a day) and she’s due for a teeth check in November anyway so I can arrange the scope for then.

[Amberley]

I would ride her in a western saddle (start inhand and lunging). That often gives you a better idea if its the saddle.

[BayBondGirl]

@Amberley

I would ride her in a western saddle (start inhand and lunging). That often gives you a better idea if its the saddle

I can probably arrange that as we board at a western barn!

Edited to add she was started by a western trainer so her initial riding was done in a western saddle

[Marla_000]

People suggesting any ole Western Saddle may be exacerbating the problem.
It’s just as important to make sure a western saddle fits the horse, but most people don’t.
Sorry, pet peeve of mine since
I’ve had horses who were not the normal shape for a western style saddle.

[JB]

@CanteringCarrot

I’m quite curious as to why it would work for some and wouldn’t for others. I was very strict about timing and making sure that all pills were eaten. I’ve had the Abler “pop rocks” work on horses and also Gastro Guard.

Real life scenarios have shown that some horses who don’t respond to 2-3 capsules, do respond to the higher studied dose which is 12-14 caps for most typical horses. What we know through various studies on at least omeprazole is that horses aren’t truly reliable in their body’s response, especially at lower (ie prevention) doses

So I try to suggest they try the higher dosing of esomeprazole if the 2-3 capsules aren’t working AND they know it’s squamous ulcers, if they’re trying to save at least a little money and not go to GG/UG

[blue_heron]

I am almost certain I was giving one horse 12 and then 9 after a week or so now that you mention it. People upthread were saying 3-4 so I assumed that was what was recommended and I was the crazy one misremembering. This would not have been with the sucralfate. No notable difference in behavior.

[Amberley]

I’m obviously suggesting one that fits. It’s often a lot easier to find a good fitting westerns saddle for draft crosses.

[Warmblood1]

I thought you meant your horse didn’t like your posts on COTH.

Also, count me in with the “get the ulcers figured out” crowd. Ulcers can manifest in crazy ways.

[BayBondGirl]

@Warmblood1

I thought you meant your horse didn’t like your posts on COTH.

I haven’t told her that I’m posting on here for that reason

Update: I hadn’t seen her in almost a week, and her back was palpating sore just behind the withers when I visited her today. I decided I just can’t in good conscience sit on her back in this situation, so I’m calling my vet office tomorrow when they open to schedule the scope.

I did a bunch of reading on a FB ulcer group and a lot of folks said their horse presented with back pain behind the withers due to ulcers - so I’m crossing all of my appendages that this is our problem and I don’t have to rabbit hole any further

Thanks everyone, I’ll keep you updated. I’ve got all the other suggestions like PSSM testing in my back pocket in case we are not on the right track.

[BayBondGirl]

Mare got scoped today, confirmed grade 2 ulcers in 2 spots. Luckily they are in “very treatable” areas! She was a star at the vet’s all night.

I admit that I was expecting more extensive damage, and at one point my stomach was starting to drop because we hadn’t seen anything yet; I kept thinking, “if it’s not ulcers, it could be ANYTHING”. So on the one hand I’m glad we have ulcers, because it’s straightforward to treat, and I’m really hoping that this is our culprit and I don’t have to keep hunting!

Now I have to decide if I drop $1200 on GastroGard or get Abler products… I’m in Canada so have the extra layer of juggling bringing it across the border if I go the Abler route. And then I’ve been waffling about tablets vs paste; my horse is boarded out so I need to make it as simple for everyone as possible.

[jvanrens]

I’m relieved for you that you at least found the issue! Good luck with getting her healed up.

[SolarFlare]

@BayBondGirl

Now I have to decide if I drop $1200 on GastroGard or get Abler products… I’m in Canada so have the extra layer of juggling bringing it across the border if I go the Abler route.

Ask your vet to enroll you in the GG guarantee program since you’ve scoped. They contact the rep and send photos, you treat with GG for 28 days and then rescope. If your horse still has signs of ulcers you will receive 28 more tubes of GG for free.

It’s expensive but dealing with the hassle of crossing the border and smuggling in the Abler products, taking the chance of them being confiscated, gas, time, and money will probably not be worth it unless you live right at the border. I’m not even sure you can buy them from Abler if you’re in Canada (using a Canadian credit card/bank account or however they take payment these days).

You can also get compounded products but since you know what you’re treating you might want to just do it right.

I felt the exact same way when I got mine scoped - oh good! It’s ulcers - we can deal with that!

[cnd8]

I’ve done both at one time or another. Both GG and Abler (I used their paste version) healed the ulcers.

[cnd8]

Also, if you happen to have a major medical policy on this horse, the scope and the GG will be covered.

[BayBondGirl]

@cnd8

Also, if you happen to have a major medical policy on this horse, the scope and the GG will be covered.

Unfortunately my insurance (and most around here, per my vet) won’t touch ulcers so I’m on my own for this one

[BayBondGirl]

@SolarFlare

It’s expensive but dealing with the hassle of crossing the border and smuggling in the Abler products, taking the chance of them being confiscated, gas, time, and money will probably not be worth it unless you live right at the border.

This has been a factor on my mind! I do live right by the border, and have crossed to pick up US-only products before, but there IS a risk and it would be a very expensive loss if something did go wrong.

[cnd8]

You have a major medical policy that wont cover ulcers? Your horse is insured for mortality and major medical and they wont cover ulcers?