My young horse doesn't like my posting? UPDATE: ulcers confirmed

[BayBondGirl]

I’m only sort of kidding with the title. I’ve been having some issues under saddle with my 4.5 year old Clyde x WB mare since late August and I’m trying to unravel the puzzle. Ulcers are very high on the risk list. She’s an extremely kind, friendly people-loving horse who doesn’t have a mean bone in her body; she always runs to the gate when she sees me arrive. She is very long-backed and currently in a bum-high growth spurt again.

Her lifestyle for general reference:
Lives in 24/7 paddock with shelter
Gets alf pellets before work
Has moved barns 7x in 3 years unfortunately
Very light workload, always includes in-hand work to strengthen core
Religious farrier visits every 5 weeks, farrier is expert in heel/frog support to keep angles correct
Current feed:

• almost 24/7 slow fed grass hay, + grass pasture ~5 months per year
• approx 1lb alfalfa pellets
• soy based RB
• salt

Timeline:

• very lightly backed summer 2023, did light riding
• became very girthy October 2023 (after a barn move) and seemed to have strained a hamstring, bodyworker suggested the saddle was bridging
• horse got the whole winter 2023 into 2024 off riding, doing only in-hand core strengthening work
• Jan 2024 had to move barns again due to unexpected circumstances
• end of April 2024 back x-rays done, everything looked great
• May 2024 saddle fitter helped find a dressage saddle that fit her really well
• girthiness continued, along with a dislike of the mounting block; pinning ears, threatening to bite sometimes
• vet/chiro assessment done in May who suggested we could scope or treat for ulcers as no back or limb pain discovered on physical assessment. I decided to try some feed changes as a start, including adding alfalfa pellets, removing the soy RB and adding slippery elm. Started giving the alf pellets before every ride.
• the feed change actually seemed to help, only had minor girthiness through the summer. Lots of trail rides, nothing in the arena more than walk/trot with a very occasional canter. She’s really growthy and the canter isn’t ready to develop yet.
• end of August 2024 things started to get messy, with increased head tossing at the trot, half-steps of almost canter, increased girthiness. Never any issues at the walk. Tried bit changes, bitless, location changes, time off, etc
• saddle fitter came again end of Sept 2024, saddle fits almost perfectly and the horse had never been so bad. Fitter was flummoxed.
• early Oct 2024 had a bodyworker out who said her pelvis was stiff and her shoulders were out; after his adjustment she rode really well for a week or so. Bodyworker came again 2 weeks later and said she was much improved
• reverted back to unhappy at the trot soon after
• started 80mg Nexium on Oct 20 to trial for 3 weeks, then will scope if no changes
• scheduled cranial sacral therapist for early Nov

My last 2 rides I randomly decided to do some two-point work and I discovered that she doesn’t do ANY head tossing or weird steps when I ride in two-point or half seat! It’s like she hates my posting? Which almost suggests it’s more of a back pain/weakness to me? I was wondering if I should look at getting a jump saddle if it would allow me to get up off her back easier/ride in a lighter seat (I’ll need one eventually anyway, we are eventers). I prefer the feeling of a dressage saddle but maybe she’s not ready for the “deep seatness” of that. I don’t THINK I’m a heavy poster, but maybe she feels otherwise.

I know the draft Xs can take a long time to get their bodies in order so I’m open to the possibility that she may just need more growing time.

If you made it through that novel, congratulations! I’ve got my fingers crossed for the Nexium, and if nothing comes of that, I’ll scope and give her the winter off from riding and see what we have in the spring.

[Posting_Trot]

I’ll chime in some ideas from my experience with an Irish Draft mare who I’ve owned since she was 7.

I’d immediately add 5000 IU of natural Vit E per day, and between 5000 and 10000 mg of Magnesium. I think these big horses need more of these than standard feed and forage provide.

I’d also test her for Lyme disease just to rule it out. General discomfort that can’t easily be traced to a specific problem can be a symptom of Lyme disease. The vet can take a blood sample and get the Cornell test done, which is very accurate and not expensive.

It might be worthwhile posting pictures of her feet and the trim, even if you think the farrier is doing a good job.

And it might be worthwhile having her feet x-rayed just to confirm her angles and to see if there’s anything going on inside the hoof capsule.

Good luck!

[BayBondGirl]

Do we want to be hitting those targets for Vit E + Mag? I can check what is currently in her RB and boost it to those numbers!

Hoof xrays is on the list for future diagnostics too; my previous horse was NPA for a long time so I know well how much fun that can be

[JB]

@Posting_Trot

I’d immediately add 5000 IU of natural Vit E per day,

Why that much? Without a blood test to show the horse is low, it’s not necessary. 2IU per pound body weight, total, is a good starting point. And if things are low in the blood, I might go with a bottle of Emcelle to get things up quickly, then go with a regular natural E

@BayBondGirl

soy based RB

How many pounds, and what does the horse weigh? What product specifically?

@BayBondGirl

She is very long-backed and currently in a bum-high growth spurt again.

for the butt-high growth phase,I wouldn’t work her at all until that levels out a bit

Given the series of events, if you haven’t tested for PSSM yet, do that. PSSM1 is a valid DNA hair test. PSSM2 isn’t a valid DNA hair test on its own BUT, in the presence of symptoms, may provide some insite.

If you don’t want to do the $$ untrustworthy PSSM2 test, then you could work on a more PSSM2-friendly diet, which means more protein and more quality protein. Adding whey isolate protein powder is really helpful to a lot of those horses, for example. Keeping NSC on the lower side is useful as well

[IPEsq]

The half canter type steps suggest back or hind end pain. As does objecting at the mounting block and things like that. Maybe she is saying the saddle isn’t right, despite what the fitter thinks. I’ve certainly had horses like that.

[CanteringCarrot]

@IPEsq

The half canter type steps suggest back or hind end pain. As does objecting at the mounting block and things like that. Maybe she is saying the saddle isn’t right, despite what the fitter thinks. I’ve certainly had horses like that.

Yes, my young horse showed the same symptoms when the saddle wasn’t right. Horses don’t read the book on saddle fitting, some may prefer a more unconventional fit. Or just don’t like certain features that a saddle may have.

[Critter]

I have a 5 yo mare…and our 4yo year was a bit rough! LOL

I learned with her that the head tossing/funky steps (we were doing the same thing and I went through the saddle/bit/etc. changes)…is just her way of communicating that she is mad but she is telling me clearly that she is mad without going to the extreme of putting me on the ground (because she really is a good girl!).

In my case, we were stuck in that head tossing funk for quite a while (it would get better/worse without a predictable pattern)…until she started coughing a tiny bit at the beginning of the ride. I had the vet come scope her…lots of airway inflammation/allergies!

Started her on zyrtec and then did allergy testing and shots…I had a completely different horse and head tossing was gone.

Same thing this fall…head tossing increased and funky steps…then she came up lame. Blocked to the foot. Finally got things sorted out there and we’ve addressed the lameness. Head tossing/funky steps are gone.

So, moral of the story is that the mare head toss might just be her form of communicating pain…but it might not be specific to where the pain is.

Also, my mare failed the nexium…if I were you, I would go for the Ulcergard right away for a week to see if you have improvement. Then you know for sure…you can always switch over the nexium later. But I always go for the stuff I know is effective to determine if it is ulcers or not.

[Amberley]

In draft horses (not Irish draughts but real draft horses) it’s almost always saddle fit, stifles or feet. They aren’t really built the same as riding horses and things get overlooked or judged as if they have a more riding horse conformation.

I would say ride her bareback and see how she goes. Lunge her in tack and in a halter, free lunge her if you have the opportunity. Try riding her one very soft footing. It’ll help if you can narrow this down more.

[blue_heron]

You need to scope. Nexium didn’t do anything for my two most recent ulcer cases. Sucralfate and Ulcergard put them back on their game.

Is it worse one direction or another?

[BayBondGirl]

Hope I got all the questions! I’m running on minimal sleep today so apologies if I miss anything.

@JB

How many pounds, and what does the horse weigh? What product specifically?

She gets 1kg daily of Lifeline All Phase Lite (also called Matrix Ration Balancer Lite). I have no idea her weight but a local horse trainer ballparked her above 1200lbs. We are in Canada so have very few RB options.

@IPEsq

Maybe she is saying the saddle isn’t right, despite what the fitter thinks.

This would not shock me in the least

@Amberley

I would say ride her bareback and see how she goes. Lunge her in tack and in a halter, free lunge her if you have the opportunity. Try riding her one very soft footing. It’ll help if you can narrow this down more.

She does it with and without the saddle on the lunge but not as often as when ridden, so I always assumed it was my weight causing the issue! Doesn’t happen when free lunged that I’ve seen. I can’t trot bareback so I can’t compare unfortunately! Our footing is ultra soft as the barn is set up for western reiners. I have ridden her in firmer options too and it still seems to happen the same.

@blue_heron

Is it worse one direction or another?

Same both directions!

[SolarFlare]

@blue_heron

You need to scope. Nexium didn’t do anything for my two most recent ulcer cases. Sucralfate and Ulcergard put them back on their game

Yup. When they are ulcery they can carry themselves differently too - mine sucks his stomach up and gets tight in the back. That could be why she likes you in half seat.

[CanteringCarrot]

Nexium didn’t work for mine either. I’d be strongly considering a scope.

[GraceLikeRain]

Nexium did nothing for my ulcer horse. Scoping is always worth it.

[S1969]

It would never hurt to scope but everything you’ve written sounds like saddle. It could be ulcers too of course. But growing, growthy, butt high, and no issues at walk or in 2 point sound like the saddle hurts. I mean - how could it not if she’s butt high. What saddle fits well for that?

It might fit her back but when in motion it changes.

[JB]

@blue_heron

Nexium didn’t do anything for my two most recent ulcer cases

@CanteringCarrot

Nexium didn’t work for mine either.

@GraceLikeRain

Nexium did nothing for my ulcer horse.

Would you mind telling me what dose you used? I’m always curious of the “didn’t work” crowd typically uses the lowest studied dose, which is 2-3 (accounting for a bit extra) capsules.

Also, @blue_heron did you use sucralfate with the Nexium, or only with the omeprazole?

@S1969

It might fit her back but when in motion it changes.

SO many saddle fitters even, don’t understand this

[anonevent]

I’d try to bring a different saddle fitter out, just for informational purposes. It could be a matter of materials or weight balance. A saddle can be perfectly fitted but still uncomfortable. 5" stilettos might technically fit as well as your favorite sneakers, but one is probably much more comfortable to jog in.

[Marla_000]

Thanks to @JB and @Simkie,
3 Nexium each morning, fed in
Hole in carrot piece, before breakfast, DID WORK.
Also fed an extra meal at lunchtime.
Started w/ 3 Nexium, gradually
Reduced to 2, then one.
My mare let me know easily cause she bit at her side when she hurt.
She also has access to free choice quality hay.

[S1969]

@BayBondGirl

Ulcers are very high on the risk list.

I’m also just curious why you say this - because of the frequent moves? Because otherwise I wouldn’t think she would be high risk for ulcers given 24/7 turnout on grass, alfalfa daily, light workload, regular farrier. That’s a recipe for low risk, other than the moves.

**I understand that many horses in ideal living situations can have ulcers.

Just wondering what makes you think they are the risk - other than moving or the behaviors you are seeing that could be saddle.

[CanteringCarrot]

@JB

Would you mind telling me what dose you used? I’m always curious of the “didn’t work” crowd typically uses the lowest studied dose, which is 2-3 (accounting for a bit extra) capsules.

I’m quite curious as to why it would work for some and wouldn’t for others. I was very strict about timing and making sure that all pills were eaten. I’ve had the Abler “pop rocks” work on horses and also Gastro Guard.

I did the 4 Nexium for 30 days, and then tapered from there which probably took about another month. Maybe that horse needed a higher dosage or for longer? I’m not sure. Horse did fine and cleared up on standard dose of omeprazole.

I have no doubt that it can work, but it didn’t with this horse. I wasn’t about to f*ck around with it (dosage and whatnot) more, so went to the Gastro Guard and it worked.

[CanteringCarrot]

@JB

SO many saddle fitters even, don’t understand this

This is worth nothing. When I first looked at my dressage saddle on my horse when he was just standing there I thought, “I dunno…” but in motion it fits. The saddle fitter did watch me ride and whatnot. I later watched some video and and could see how it fit. I did have other saddles that looked good from a static view, but horse wasn’t thrilled under saddle.