Mystery Illness... again. Need new ideas!

Hi ALL! Helllp!

I posted another thread about a year ago regarding my horse with severe hives, which we ended up realizing they were just a symptom of ‘Leaky Gut.’ And not necessarily allergies per se. After exhausting all true veterinary help, I contacted an Equine Nutritionist (also a former vet) and she helped my horse immensely. We brought her back from absolute depletion to normal with the help of pre & probiotics, endocrine supplements, spirulina, camelina oil, minerals, whey protein, and a few other items.
Old thread, but not necessarily relevant anymore: Severe Hives

Unfortunately, we are back to the same issues again, but with some new troubling symptoms. I immediately put her on all of the temporary supplements regimen as last year when I saw the start of hives on her neck, and her same wild behavior. Unfortunately- this is not working now.
Would LOVE to hear any other ideas from you all. I will do, and try anything for her! Here is a list of what is going on past and present, and also a list of things I have already tried to do for her:

Old symptoms:
• Severe hives all over.
• Whole body depletion: coat, weight, muscle, etc.
• Very stressed out, wild & vacant eyed.
• Started in November/December ish (and this time again too)
New Symptoms (Uncertain if any are related, or if her whole system is just so out of whack that everything is falling apart.)
• Refused to continue eating her alfalfa, maybe a few small bites here and there
• I added in some orchard grass for another offering she seems to like it better, but still will only slowly graze and ends up turning away from her hay and stands outside in her run staring into the distance. She will however graze on grass when I hand walk her to some outside of the barn.
• She stopped wanting her supplements (that she has been on since last spring).
• I had the Nutritionist come out again and evaluate, she gave us a new list of supplements to try. Unfortunately, my horse will not eat any supplements fully- only a few bites.
• She switches moods from having a WILD/Vacant look in her eye, constantly yelling out when her horse neighbors move around their stalls, or leave their stalls and then goes to having a very dull/tired and has a painful look in her eye.
• Swollen milk duct with leaky fluid out of one side
• Itches UNDER her tail (not on top) and acts very restless before and after she tries to itch- with pinned ears.

Things I have already done/do:
• New supplements from nutritionist addressing stomach & immunity issues: she will not eat or finish them. I have tried new mixers, and have started with one supplement, then added one by one to try and eliminate what she doesn’t like. She just wont eat more than a few bites.
• Have purchased Organic hay (one alfalfa one orchard) and offered that to her- eats only a few bites and refuses the rest.
• Had the regular vet come out and do a blood test (all normal), fecal test (negative for worms/parasites), & awaiting results of the culture from her leaky milk duct fluid.
• Treated her for ulcers as directed by the vet (twice a day) with Sucralfate. Has not helped at all.
• Checked for vaginal infections (due to itchy bottom). Results show nothing in that regard.
• Had her teeth checked: they are Ok.
• Talked to a horse psychic: She mentioned treating her liver & kidneys with some supplements- but cannot get her to eat supplements so have to put a pin in that one
• Had a Reiki session: No big findings, or anything I can quite comprehend yet.
• Turned out every day for at least 2 hours in a giant arena.
• No riding right now- (due to hives and how she is feeling) obviously.

"Normal” happenings:
• Pooping several times a day- normal limits.
• Drinking plenty of water: normal amounts of pee spots throughout the day
• Rolling, running and strolling around the turn out with her friend (my other horse) for two hours every night.

Open to having the vet come out again to do any sort of testing/examination, but I seem to be failing in the area. I have to give them a list of things to do, vs. them being proactive and helping me investigate or giving me any suggestions.

I do want to try moving her to grass pasture life, and let her ‘be a horse’ for a while. My only hesitation is she gets VERY stressed with moving & trailering. I am worried that her condition will worsen if I put a big move on her right now, and separate her from my second horse. Additionally I’m concerned that she will worry further if she does not see me regularly every day like she does now (I’ve had her for 8 years). There is no grass boarding available near me- closest options would be about 1.5 hours away + which would limit me seeing her /checking on her regularly during the week. Although, open to it if it felt like the right thing to do that wouldn’t make her worse.

If you have actually read all of this so far, THANK YOU! I am willing to try/do anything for her, and welcome any new ideas or things I haven’t thought of.

Are you sure it’s not her hay? Has it always been from the same farm? Do they use fertilisers when growing it, or drying agents? Have you tried steaming it? Or removing it and switching to soaked hay pellets for a test?

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Hi Leesa- She has had this reoccurring issue for the last 4 years (although new and more severe symptoms last year and now.) We have been at three different barns in those years- all with different sources for hay. I did try only feeding her Standlee’s organic hay (both alfalfa and orchard) and she will only have a few bites. I tried soaked alfalfa & soaked orchard pellets, as well as beat pulp. She had a few bites of alfalfa soaked, as well as beat pulp. She refused the orchard soaked pellets. Notably, this always starts up in November/December.

Going to try soaking her hay tonight though. Good suggestion

Soaking the hay itself probably won’t have any effect if it’s an allergy. A steamer (like haygain) gets high enough in temperature to kill pathogens in loose hay, and hay pellets are cooked in the processing which also kills pathogens.
Soaking/wetting loose hay will only dampen down the hay which will reduce airborne allergens that she’s breathing in (until it dries), but she’ll still be eating them and any mould or other pathogen in the hay. It probably can’t hurt though.

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How often do you worm her and with which active ingredient each time? I know you’ve said that she’s had worm counts done but some parasites encyst themselves inside the horse so there’s nothing coming out in the poo to be flagged on a worm count.

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We follow the typical recommended month/active ingredient. However, I have not wormed her since this all started up again (november). It was recommended by the vet not to until her condition improves, after I asked if we should worm her even though results were ‘negative’.

Did your vet scope for ulcers? Or just dose with sucralfate? Did vet pull blood for PPID/Cushings/Sugar Stuff?

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Yes, we have scoped the foregut (last week) and all looked ok, but have not scoped hindgut. The vet recommended treating her as if she had hindgut ulcers with sucralfate, I did that and no improvement. I’m open to taking her in to the hospital for scoping, but it wasn’t instructed or recommended to scope the hindgut, so I waited on that. But, will do if that’s a good next step! I’m getting frustrated with my limited knowledge, but it seems as if I’m expected tell a vet the exact things I need them to do, and recommend what things to give my horse, and haven’t had any luck with a vet that goes beyond that.

Also, getting the full bloodwork report tomorrow. The vet only said “results were all within normal limits.” So, not sure if they did anything to look at cushings/PPID/Sugar.

I think the hind guys has to be ultrasounded but I maybe wrong.

I think ulcer meds may take longer than a week to kick in so might want to keep on those if possible but maybe difficult since horse isn’t eating good.

Maybe a second vet opinion?

Sounds like a very difficult situation and I’m sure it must be frustrating :frowning:

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If I’m reading right, your mare spends 22 hours a day in a stall (or someplace small…you mention 2 hours per day turnout in a large arena) and doesn’t eat much hay? What else does she eat? I cannot imagine any horse living like that wouldn’t have ulcers. They’re designed to graze for about 16 hours a day and to move around as much as they like 24 hours a day.

I really don’t know about her other symptoms…the hives and what-not. I wish I could be of more help, but my horse has behaved as you describe in the past when he wasn’t getting enough forage in his diet and was being fed a high-carb sweet feed (unknown to me until I investigated). He started with the hard eyes, anxious behavior, tension, worrying about other horses, etc. Now that he’s at a barn that feeds plenty of hay and a ration balancer, he’s back to his calm, happy self.

Magnesium also helps him a lot. Just sayin’. I have no idea if it’d help your girl. I just feet the MVP Magnesium 5000 (but I double dose). It’s pelleted and my guy eats it up with his other supplements and pound or whatever it is he gets of ration balancer.

I’ll be interested to follow this thread and see what others think and if you are able to get to the bottom of this. Horses can be such mysteries.

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Regardless of how nervous she gets in a trailer, move her some place, any place where she’s out 24/7/365 with access to a run-in. Let her be a horse and let the body heal. Dr. Time and Dr. Movement can do wonders together.

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This horse needs a Management overhaul. Agree with others, probably still has ulcers.
Definitely a digestive/gastro problem.
Definitely needs new surroundings/new barn/ more turnout.
Please do what’s best for your horse. Listen to the people here.

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Thanks for the input all! Always great to hear other opinions.

Thank you. This is my next move. Appreciate your feedback.

First, good on you for working so hard to figure this out.

I wonder if it’s a combination of things. One of the horses at my barn had a recurring problem with hives. It was finally determined he was allergic to the bedding. Switching him to peat moss took care of that.

That can’t be the whole problem, but could be part of it. Good luck!

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When you say you have had blood tested and all was normal, do you mean the blood-allergy/sensitivity testing, or just normal blood testing?

I’ve been going through the hives and lack of thriving thing with my new horse. After futzing around trying to do elimination diets for a few months, moving barns, changing other environmental things, I finally did the blood/allergy testing on him but was warned ahead of time that it wasn’t very accurate. However, it was $300 vs, the $2K my vet quoted for skin patch testing, so I thought we’d give it a try first.

I got lucky in that the blood test has apparently pinpointed our problem (flaxseed was off the charts high, oats out of the acceptable range, and of course because I was struggling with his weight, I’d been feeding him high-calorie feeds which are all loaded with flax and oats… I’ve been poisoning the poor guy.) I removed them immediately from his diet but left him on the antihistamines for a couple of weeks, tapering them off, and so far, in the past 2 months, so good. As well as no hives, he’s noticeably gained weight and muscle and his poop has firmed up.

However, if I’d not had that result, I guess the skin patch test would have been the next in line. Have you tried that yet?

And one other thing… have you had his liver enzymes checked? Poor liver function makes humans very itchy amongst other symptoms.

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Has this horse had a neurological evaluation?

Have you tried any drugs (instead of supplements) for her hives? I haven’t ever owned a horse with allergies til I got my current guy. I am ashamed to say that the thought that he had allergies didn’t really register with me until he was off the charts jumpy and hive-y and he had eosonophilic lumps from bug bites. He did great on benadryl last summer - 100% improvement.

I have also had a horse so ulcer-y from ulcer supplements that he bit me hard (totally out of character) when I was grooming him one day. Stopped the supplements and he was back to his normal self after a couple of days.

Sooooo, I am pretty skeptical about supplementation. If it were me, I’d be cutting all the supplements back to near zero, trying some drugs with a good track record, and getting a neuro exam. And maybe a Lyme test if that can be a problem around you.

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