Mystery Mare Ailment?

[Mardi1]

Background: 8yr old Warmblood mare. Purchased in December 2022. After arrival, moved from a no turnout situation (dec 22-jan 23) to a poor turnout & horrible/stressful environment situation (jan 23-may 23), (may 23-current) is now at a wonderful facility.

Current Situation:
Minimum 10 hrs daily turnout (7 AM to 5 PM)
24/7 access to high quality hay
Fully forage based diet
Vitamin E supplement
Smartpak Leg up mare pellets

Personality/behavior Dec 2022-June 2023:
‘Sassy’, Unhappy, Stressed, 100% in flight mode at all times; all due to horrible diet, lack of turnout & access to hay (let alone quality hay).

Within a week of moving to our current barn, the mare relaxed, was 100x more comfortable, easy to be around. Made friends in the pasture, which she didn’t have before. Total personality 180.

Back/Saddle fit/Riding:
Has brand new custom fit saddle that has been checked by two saddle fitters now. Requires a shim at the atrophied point of the shoulder to be 100% perfect for the time being, but saddle fits like a glove.

Never backsore since purchase. Has regularly (4-8 weeks depending) seen chiropractor & followed up 2 weeks after with massage. Receives the occasional Magna wave treatment.

Prior to coming to me, she was “turned out” in a 20*20 pen with a pony and not worked.

On arrival to me, I sat on her 5-6 times bareback at a walk/trot (no fitting saddle at the time) over the course of 2 months.

She sat again until June when we moved to this barn. She works 2-4x weekly in hand/groundwork up until 2 months ago, started from scratch ‘backing’ her, still starting with groundwork each session. To this point has done nothing beyond 1-2x around ½ the ring at a trot.

Now for the latest few months:

Oct 3 – In heat. Came in really hard. “sassy” towards her yearling pasture mate. Slightly stiff in the hind end.

Oct 17 – In heat. Came in really hard. Obviously uncomfortable. This is when smartpak leg up mare pellets were started just for support.

Walking stiff & like a “stick up the butt”, almost hiking the back legs. Moves out “technically sound” but stiff neck to tail.

Oct 24 – Sees a chiropractic neurologist. Really amazing experience & learn that she’s tight in her pelvis & sore at her neck from compensation from the atrophied shoulder. Improves from stiffness greatly over the next week.

Nov 2 – Has teeth done. Vet extracts a broken/remaining wolf tooth from a poorly handled previous extraction. Stiffness improves even more.

Nov 21 – In heat. Squirting & being sassy at any horse that will look her direction.

Nov 30 – Really walking funny now. (think like if you had an accident in your pants and walking with your legs really spread out and crouched). Walking like she is constantly squirting (tail up, back “hunched”, tip toeing on her back feet). Keep in communication with vet.

Dec 1 – Vet comes out and does hormone panel/ultrasound/bloodwork & drug efficacy test (progesterone). Vet REALLY thinking it’s a cyst/tumor/other hormone imbalance issue. Waiting for results.

Dec 5 – Sees the chiropractic neurologist again. Gave him no additional detail… exact notes: Jaw/poll – adjusted. She had her diaphragm herniated & this was causing issues at L1 & L2. Slight category 1 pelvis tilt. Recheck 4 weeks.

Dec 5-11 – given time off to be a horse, let progesterone test settle in

Dec 12 – Time for lesson/groundwork. Not acting herself on crossties. Lethargic? Zoned out, dopey. Bring to arena – super stiff again throughout. Put her in the round pen to just let her move… moves like a 23yr old half dead lesson horse – really weird for a mare with HUGE movement. Give her the night off. Text vet who says progesterone should be calming, but not a tranquilizer… so odd.

Dec 13 – Bloodwork/hormone everything comes back completely normal.

SO – all of this to say… not sure where to go next. The mare is obviously uncomfortable, seems lethargic/dopey and like she doesn’t feel good, on top of being stiff in the L1, L2, pelvis area. K

Newest message from vet: “A variety of other things can be creating stiffness – no xrays to go off of so it can be a lot of things. Polypharmacia: methocarbamol, gabapentin, equioxx, acupuncture??”

I just feel lost & frustrated and not sure what to do next. I don’t want to just throw drugs at her and hope something works. WHY does she not feel good. WHERE does she not feel good & HOW DO WE FIX IT!! UGH. I’m a mess.

Any insight or advice is super appreciated… I LOVE my vet, but just feel like I’m not getting much direction on where to go… I didn’t go to vet school, so a little disappointing to feel left without any direction.

[Scribbler]

So you have her on progesterone to stop heats. Is that working?

Have you looked at ulcers?

Reading between the lines, this was a fallen through the cracks nice horse, that had visible issues (atrophied shoulder) and had been out of work in a minimal car/warehousing situation? When a nice WB ends up unridden/unbroke in a paddock with a pony for years there’s likely some behavior or physical issue that’s sidelined her. Otherwise someone would have nabbed her. This might not always be the case with lower perceived value horses, ponies and OTTB and meh stock horse types and homebred horses can be put in the back burner until they age out into “ready to start your own way” projects at 15. But a nice WB is much less likely to “fall through the cracks” because even a meh WB is super desirable to many people (and likely a better potential sport horse than the other budget options).

From all you say, it sounds like a hind end problem but its impossible to say if it’s neurological or physical injury.

Throwing pain killers or supplements at a horse when you don’t know the cause of symptoms is useless.

Some things that I’ve had no experience with IRL but read about on COTH:

Neurological diseases spread by insects or other vectors like EPM.
Congenital neurological or degenerative diseases like DSLD.
Congenital muscle diseases like PSSM.

All these have tests, not sure what tests you’ve done.

Impingement of spinal cord on nerves, the channel is too narrow.
Malformed bones at I think C5/C6 (lower neck)
Kissing spines (maybe not)
Fractured pelvis

I’m not a vet, don’t even have a science background but I am a big reader and have followed COTH “Mystery Horse Disease” threads for years!

[mfglickman]

Not sure where you are but have you checked for Lyme and/or EPM? Lyme is insidious and presents in lots of weird ways, and one of mine that had EPM I described to vet as if she were a toddler walking with a loaded diaper.

Lyme is a blood draw and EPM a field exam + blood (or spinal, but it is so prevalent here in the Northeast that I have gone with positive field test + blood).

[mfglickman]

I’m one of those readers too! And some of those kissing spine/impingement cases are ringing bells too. I just chimed in on the two I’ve experienced that could have a connection - EPM and Lyme.

Edited for autocorrect slaughter

[Critter]

Have you scoped for ulcers? Given the stress and poor management at the one place, that would certainly kick off ulcers pretty quickly.

I have one who is very prone to them…I thought I could do half tube UG (which did help) but on finally scoping he did have grade 3 ulcers. We then treated all the way, kept him on sucralfate…and did full tubes of UG when traveling. He got grumpy and acting out again and another scope revealed another round of grade 3 bleeding ulcers. And this was with ideal management at that time.

That’s an easy thing to rule out given all the other tests you’ve done so far.

Same horse also had EPM and Lyme co-infection (found after the second round of ulcers). Those are also relatively easy to check on and can cause some odd symptoms. Bone scan is also my next go to if I really think there is something orthopedic (found same gelding’s source of pain the first time he had ulcers through a bone scan - rib fractures).

Has the vet scanned her ovaries? That’s also pretty easy to do to check for tumors/cysts.

[jvanrens]

I take it your vet didn’t stick an arm in her and do an exam/ultrasound for cysts etc., before medicating her to make sure it would be useful? Sorry if I’m not recalling correctly.

[barnesthenoble]

Has there been any imaging or palpation done of her ovaries and uterus, or just bloodwork? I would probably start there, if it hasn’t been done already. Do you have a large vet hospital you can haul to? I know the expense can seem enormous, but it can be a good option to have a lot of eyes at one time to give their opinions.

Good luck, I know how much it sucks to be trying to help your horse and feeling like you’re getting nowhere. It’s a tough road but you’re doing your best for her, and it shows!