Was reading another thread about hunters and read that once you get to 3’6" that Warmbloods start to dominate. Bit baffled by this because 3’6" (a smidgen over 1m) is quite a small fence. (I cheerfully confess that if you are eventing, that the type of fence, approach and/or landing can make 1m seem quite big.)
Despite having watched hunter classes on the Internet, I still feel mystified and clueless.
Yes, 3’6" is the highest height offered in junior- and amateur-only classes. Conformation hunters and international hunter derbies, which are open to the pros, are usually set at 3’9" and 4’, respectively.
Your distances and pace have to be perfect in the hunter ring if you want a winning round (in good company). So while the fence heights are relatively lower than jumper classes, most people still find the hunter ring to be a good challenge.
They are also 3’6" wide, stuffed with fillers and decorations, must be jumped dead center without rubs out of a perfect pace of matching 13’ strides with perfect form and smooth lead changes. That increases the degree of difficulty more then size alone.
The WBs dominate because of their bigger, slower strides making the pace smoother and and related distances easier. Of course some TBs have that and some WBs don’t but in general, successful Hunter at 3’6"-4’ is more likely to be a WB.
What Coramint and findeight said…so well!
Eventing and hunters are different sports. Just because both involve going over a jump does not mean they are easily comparable.
There’s nothing that brings understanding like entering a class and seeing how you and your horse perform. I’d suggest Saugherties, KHP or WEF to get an understanding on why 3’6" is a difficult class in hunters. But I see you are in Australia and I’m not sure what the hunter scene is like there. But if you are ever in the United States give it a go. I have heard of a few former eventing horses that have done extremely well in hunters.
The others explained it well.
But basically 3’6" is a height where it gets more difficult for the horse to look like it’s doing everything by itself. You can’t “help” a hunter around a course and still do well. The horse has to balance and go forward seemingly without the rider telling them. They have to jump out of stride, be careful, round, and quiet.
A good 3’6" hunter is very well schooled to imperceptible aids. Bring the shoulders back a smidge without moving the hands and the horse waits for you, a tiny amount of leg and the horse quietly moves up. The horse is always in front of your leg without pulling on you.
A lot of successful 3’ horses aren’t able to make a successful transition to 3’6" hunters. Some don’t have the step, some don’t have the scope, some lose their quiet mentality or feel they need too much pace to make it around. Lots of these horses could still jump around a 1.10m or 1.20 course, it just won’t be a perfect hunter trip.
The USA is the only country with this type of “showing”, with the possible exception of France who became infected by the need to sell horses to the USA.
www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?585848-American-Hunter-classes
If you are trying to compare hunters to anything, it would be dressage over fences. It’s subjectively judged for the quality of the round. The scoring is very different because the round isn’t broken down into movements with a score for each, and the judging standards aren’t as well defined as in dressage, but otherwise the idea is to judge against perfection as it is in dressage.
Perfection of what ? It has absolutely nothing to do with hunting. I’d love to see those riders galloping flat stick down a hill.
No hills any more let alone as many opportunities to actively hunt or even hack outside as there were even 20 years ago. The reality is most ride in rings because that’s all they they got available. Today’s show Hunters reflect those limitations.
You need to get out more;http://www.mfha.com/hunts-alphalist.html/ I have yet to hear that horse trailers have been banned and there is unlimited space for riding out in both State and Federal Parks/Forests/WMAs
Sorry, I don’t own a horse trailer or truck (because it would be impractical and expensive), and I have a full time job and a family. I have a very limited amount of time to ride, and adding on the time to hook up said truck and trailer and then hauling to said outdoor riding area, after I’ve driven from my home in a metro area (where I live to be closer to my full time job that allows me to even own a horse at all), basically adds multiple hours on to my day and takes away time from my kid and husband. Not everyone is privileged enough to have unlimited money and time, and apparently if they are, they’re supposed to be funding Katie Prudent’s horses and not riding.
Show hunters have evolved from their origins just as football has evolved from its origins just as show jumping has evolved. If you don’t like it, go play in another sandbox.
OP, the previous explanations have been very good about why things start to get more difficult at the 3’6" level. I’d suggest watching some Amateur Owner or Junior classes to see what happens when riders make mistakes at that level, vs watching the pros who usually nail it every time, and judging comes down to personal preference over a horse’s style/way of going. 3’6" is closer to 1.10m than 1.0m and those big oxers with fill can cause a lot of amateur mistakes.
…Canada
So the difference is pretty much this.
Back in the day, when I showed 3’6" hunters as a junior on a lovely Thoroughbred, you were expected to have a pretty good gallop around the course. You established your forward, balanced pace early and you kept that energy for the whole round.
Today, the American hunter fashion is to have the horses jump out of a slower lick. Instead of a forward gallop, it’s more of a lopey canter with a slower tempo. To create that slower tempo, you need much more power to still have a very big step and enough power to get across the oxers and combinations and make the distances down the lines.
In addition, in my day, the lines were based on a 12’ step. Today they are set on 13’. Not sure exactly why or when that changed.
Most horses can jump a single 3’6" fence. Far fewer horses can do so without a lot of pace. And if the distances are set longer, that increases the difficulty for an ordinary horse, especially in combinations.
I love watching hunter classes and it always amazes me when people are like “pfftt that looks too easy”. I watch a 3’6" A/O Hunter Class at an AA show and I saw “welp, I could never ever do that”. General lack of education, carelessness towards details, and gawd awful body awareness pretty much takes it out of consideration.
I actually own a retired hunter and for fun I took him through an 18" 5 stride bending line last night and royally screwed it up, 3 times! He was horrified by me. He was a good boy but he had neither the mind or body to find out if he would have been a 3’6" horse. He had the stride and the jump but that’s not the entire way there. Makes me even more impressed over the horses that do make it. (Now I ride a 14h spotted pony where everything seems like an epic achievement).
But I also respect eventers, because I know I would kill myself over a real cross country course. Same for foxhunters though the day drinking seems like fun.
I find it relatively easy to respect good examples of all kinds of horse sports and respect people who work hard and develop nice horses.
Do you have to be in the military to ride a dressage test? Does everyone in Pony Club ride a horse under 14.2 hands? Does every draft horse pull a plow? Do all gaited horses spend their days riding the plantation fields? Disciplines can evolve from their origins.
Equibrit for someone who seems so completely offended by the H/J world, you spend a lot of time on this forum. And this is coming from someone who shares some of your opinions.
Perfection of pace, striding, lines, jump. No, modern North American (yes, Canada too!!) show hunters are not a direct comparison to the hunt field anymore (I know, I spent several seasons out with various Virginia hunts and hunting is very close to my heart). I’d say the same for modern dressage, which is no longer a direct comparison to the military training from which it originally derived. Sports change. Sports evolve. It’s not just riding. It’s been discussed probably 8,275 other times on this forum.
FWIW, I rode a lovely WB gelding that was a real dream to hunt first field, in trappy country, and also was pinning at “AA” shows in the amateur hunter ring with his owner. One of my junior mares started out in the hunt field and became a very solid A-circuit hunter. It can be done. It’s just not common.
Sure, it’d be great if more folks can get out of the ring and enjoy riding out, but not everyone has access to wide open spaces, not everyone has their own trailer to go down to the local state park to trail ride, and some have all that, but no one to enjoy it with and don’t want to ride alone. Some don’t have time. Some are just more comfortable just tooling around in a ring. I personally don’t understand that - ring work has its time and place for me, but I enjoy hacking out in country. We may not agree, but I just don’t know if it’s worth us sitting here and poo pooing on those that only have the time, space, or constitution for ring work.
For the discussion of available space, the sport changing (being “dumbed down”), etc, refer to the Prudent Podcast thread. Sure it’d be great to get back to the days of the wide open hunt courses, but that’s not happening. Hunters on this side of the pond are what they are, and the really good ones are a real art form. And as much as I love hunting, there are always folks out in the field who could have benefitted from a year or two in the ring getting an actual foundation, so you don’t constantly wonder if they’re going to get themselves killed each time out.
Yes! Very well said.
A lot of dealers in Holland/Belgium/Germany are becoming more attuned to the US hunter market, because they aren’t stupid, and the money is very good for the very type of horse they would previous have sold on the cheap. There are of course still deals to be had from those who have less than zero interest refocusing training efforts on a particular horse that is unsuitable for show jumping, but more and more even these trainers/riders have dealer friends who do pay attention to the hunter/eq market who can move the horse for them.
Should have written that I am Australian. Sorry. Here’s a link describing Working Hunter classes in the UK.
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/features/tips-for-working-hunter-success-474430
Working hunter classes in Australia are based on the UK format.
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