Naive friend buys a SECOND horse. The saga continues

[TheBigEasy]

So next time she asks me to haul her horse I should tell her I’m uninvolving myself? Or if she asks about her trainer’s new fee schedule, I should tell her to consult someone else? Or if it’s normal for her horse to go from six hours turnout to one hour turnout, I should just tell her I’m stepping back and not involving myself? Or if she sends me a foot picture of thrush and asks what to do? Now that’s hateful.

I told her several times she was buying mare #1 the wrong way. Then I shut up, helped, and only responded when asked for advice. Which there’s been a lot. And I’ve been glad to offer - always with the caveat of “there are lots of different opinions - here’s mine”.
I never said “here’s my farrier/saddler/dentist. You should use them!”
She asked - I gave names and numbers and why I like them. Always with the caveat that different folks work for different folks.

As for jealousy, I know plenty of people who are jealous I get to have a horse and do horse things. So I’m sensitive and have invited many friends to come ride my guy (cluelessly around an arena doing his training no favors) while I coach an up and down lesson for no recompense (I’m an AA) Including the Buyers daughter.

Jealous? Hate? I have no hate in my heart for anyone. I teach my children that HATE is the dirtiest of any four letter word.

If I envy anyone, it is the 25 yo AA at my barn who works overtime in a factory, who bought her KWPN as a yearling and made payments to an Amish man to own him. She saw potential enough to extend herself. Developed him to 4th level in seven years. On her own with limited trainer help. Of her skill, dedication, and wherewithal I am in admiration that is akin to jealousy. Probably more respect, but I do wish I had the skill to do what she did.

Her current trainer appears to be quite capable and brought mare #1 quite a ways already. Why she didn’t insist on something more trained for mare #2, I’m not sure but have speculations.

[shiloh]

Provided you have that kind of trainer. One barn I was at the trainer was always trying to con people into buying horses that they were not suited for. I had a theory it was to provide pony rides for herself and her friends or so that that the animal could later be sold at a vast markup - something I had seen her do several times the most notable being a broken down 30 yr old for $3k that she sold to newbies. That didn’t end well for the horse. She persuaded a young girl and her family that the 23 yr old quarter horse that said girl could not manage to steer around the arena to buy a 4 yr OTTB mare that was hot as a pistol and way beyond child’s skill level. Did not see how that ended but heard later horse was sold for several times purchase price and child had quit riding.

I hope the situation the OP is writing about works out. I do.

[demidq]

I actually WOULD suggest that you “uninvolve” yourself with hauling- she can obviously afford a shipper. You can claim it’s an insurance issue. And I would check your own liability insurance if you are giving beginner lessons even if they are free.
I am not being bitchy, it’s just that I have seen nasty accidents happen even with the best of intentions, and I am very risk averse at my advanced age!

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

OP, I totally understand where you are coming from. It’s hard when you’ve had many frustrating years of learning yourself, someone comes to you for advice (and hands-on assistance), and rather than listening to you and respecting your expertise from your own experiences and research, that person just keeps rejecting it yet keeps taking up (and therefore wasting) your time. Or worse, the person tells you what they’ve “learned” via Google or guesswork and tries to convince you “out” of doing things the right way.

I do think, for your own peace of mind, however, you may need to detach yourself from this person’s situation. I realize it’s 100% more difficult when a living animal is involved, however.

[atl_hunter]

@TheBigEasy

So next time she asks me to haul her horse I should tell her I’m uninvolving myself? Or if she asks about her trainer’s new fee schedule, I should tell her to consult someone else? Or if it’s normal for her horse to go from six hours turnout to one hour turnout, I should just tell her I’m stepping back and not involving myself? Or if she sends me a foot picture of thrush and asks what to do? Now that’s hateful.

You have an entire thread (well, two) about how unsafe this horse is IYO. Be honest with your friend. Don’t haul it. Recommend that the trainer haul it. Begin to remove yourself as a resource. Starting today.

If she’s not comfortable with the fee schedule, advise her to talk to the trainer about it and find out what services she’s receiving. Then maybe advise her to call around and visit other trainers. Again, begin to remove yourself from this co-dependent and unhealthy “friendship” and I say this in quotes as most true friends don’t come online and complain excessively (under the guise of asking for “advice” about their friends) on an online forum in multiple threads. Instead, they express radical candor and have a heart to heart directly with them. You are clearly not in favor of what your friend is doing. You can say, “Look, you don’t take my advice, anyway, and since you’re working with a trainer now I think it’s best that they help you - blah blah blah .”

Honestly is always the best policy.

But this means you have to be willing and able to remove yourself. If you can’t, then you need to ask yourself why.

[moonlitoaksranch]

Especially because health care costs are so high and a kid’s brain is so fragile on a large, hot horse. I do hope both mother an daughter wear helmets.

[Alex_and_Bodie_s_Mom]

@GoneAway

I worked with someone in the military who was getting ready to retire to a farm. He was so excited to buy his young granddaughter a horse, and proudly told me it would be a QH yearling.

When I looked at him in horror and asked why, he said: so they can grow up together.

I think ignorant horse newbies assume horses are a lot like dogs. Which is terrifying.

BTDT so many times. The last time was with my brother, whose daughter decided she wanted to learn to ride. I walked outside one day and found them in my paddock, with my 15-year old mare who had never been started under saddle. Thank God that mare is a saint, but she had zero clue what they were trying to do (which was just catch her, but they didn’t even know how to walk up to her and put the halter on her). We had rather the conversation, in quite loud tones, about the general idiocy of this idea. They thought that because the mare was OLD, she was fine to ride - as if somehow magically the horse knows everything when they reach a certain age.

Then, because I was raining on their parade, they bought her a yearling filly.

[BatCoach]

@KBC

Green broke Friesian in particular, or green broke anything?

In my personal experience I’ve seen more friesians get soured by green owners due to “black beauty syndrome” than say quarter horses or paints. YMMV. Their fairytale looks just pull people in.

They are heavily muscled with arching, strong necks - it’s really easy for them to brace that neck against the reins. They were bred for driving which can also lean towards heaviness in the bridle.

I know horses of all breeds have their training challenges, I’ve just seen a greater percentage of friesians being bought young by over-horsed AAs and turned to pasture ornaments because their owners got scared of them than say warmblood or Iberians.

They are powerful horses who have opinions. One learned he could bite the leg of his rider if he didn’t want to do something. Another would just bolt. One owner sent to horse for 30 days of training, which of course did not solve the issue. She was far too timid a rider and the horse had her number. She now just does round pen “games” with him. Never puts a saddle on.

The other gave up trying to ride and hardly comes out to see the poor horse she was too ignorant to set up for success. It’s a shame.

Totally anecdotal, but I would not put them amongst my list of beginner/green/ignorant rider friendly horses. Get a nice Percheron x or Iberian if you want something that looks like a fairytale. Friesians are wonderful
Horses, and they can be great AA horses, but with some degree of trainer assistance along the way.

[OverandOnward]

@TheBigEasy

So next time she asks me to haul her horse I should tell her I’m uninvolving myself?

You can do that if you feel you are just enabling a bad situation, not correcting it.

“Hateful” is your word, and it is framing a situation in a certain way that is not the way some others would see it.

I had to do that with a friend. Really loved the friend and her TB mare that she couldn’t handle. But the friend was piling worse choices on top of bad choices, and my influence wasn’t improving the situation. There was a phone call where she described her next idea - one she had already started to implement - and it hit hard that it was time to say “I’m sorry, I can’t help you with that kind of thing any more”. Because my “help” was clearly not truly helping her or her horse, just enabling her behavior.

[McGurk]

I have a friend who has Friesians, and he both rides and drives them. I was skeptical of them at first, but every one of them is absolutely lovely being ridden out in company and AA friendly. Now, said friend has deep pockets and I don’t know what the sifting/sorting out process was or how many he went through to get the lovely group he has.

He does also have help to keep them ridden and in work.

I suspect that the high number of amateur/Friesians train wrecks have more to do with the inexperienced amateur’s Black Beauty syndrome than temperament of the Friesians.

[strangewings]

The Friesians i have worked with have all been lovely, good-minded, and very AA friendly, even when greener. Can’t speak to the higher octane sport -bred ones. I think these were a little more old style. I would worry less about green + green with them, esp. with an experienced hand/trainer involved than with many other breeds.

Part of the black beauty issue though is inexperienced people breeding and dumping poorly bred, poorly handled horses on the market. Crosses too. These are the inexpensive ones that beginners end up with. Can’t guarantee they have a “Friesian” temperament the way i think of it.

[FjordBCRF]

@demidq

I actually WOULD suggest that you “uninvolve” yourself with hauling- she can obviously afford a shipper. You can claim it’s an insurance issue. And I would check your own liability insurance if you are giving beginner lessons even if they are free.
I am not being bitchy, it’s just that I have seen nasty accidents happen even with the best of intentions, and I am very risk averse at my advanced age!

I agree with all of this.

@TheBigEasy

So next time she asks me to haul her horse I should tell her I’m uninvolving myself? Or if she asks about her trainer’s new fee schedule, I should tell her to consult someone else? Or if it’s normal for her horse to go from six hours turnout to one hour turnout, I should just tell her I’m stepping back and not involving myself? Or if she sends me a foot picture of thrush and asks what to do? Now that’s hateful.

That’s not hateful, that is self preservation. If this friend and this situation are taking up too much space in your brain, you need to step back. She only seems to be getting herself into this deeper as time goes on. I get that it helps to have an outlet with a community that “gets it”, however, you yourself need to know when and in what capacity you need to step back. Friend has money, has a trainer, has resources. Tell her she should probably ask the trainer about certain things, or perhaps the farrier about hoof issues or her vet about anything health related. Feed questions? Recommend she find a nutritionist. When saddle shopping happens, let her work that out with a saddle fitter. Whatever you need to do to not be so absorbed in her drama. There is NOTHING wrong with that, it’s called setting boundaries.

I say no all the time; I don’t like to haul other people’s horses. I’m not comfortable with it so I don’t make a habit of it. Just because I trim my horses hooves doesn’t mean I’m comfortable trimming someone else’s in place of their own trimmer…or on a horse that kicks.

It sounds like you need to distance yourself from this in some capacity given this is the second thread you have posted…and based on the first one, isn’t terribly surprising given how your friend approaches this whole thing. Not necessarily throw in the towel, but take a step back and let her figure out some things herself if she isn’t going to take your advice…and provided they aren’t true emergencies.

[BatCoach]

@strangewings

Part of the black beauty issue though is inexperienced people breeding and dumping poorly bred, poorly handled horses on the market. Crosses too. These are the inexpensive ones that beginners end up with. Can’t guarantee they have a “Friesian” temperament the way i think of

solid point.

[Gesaffelstein]

Yeah you refuse to haul the horse. Yeah, you take yourself out of the situation. Problem solved- stop letting other peoples problems become yours.

[Warmblood1]

OP, you do you. There is no black or white, right or wrong way of handling the situation. No one should be telling you what you should be doing, IMO. You seem like a good friend and just needed to vent. There are all types of horse people, doesn’t mean we will agree with all of them, but it certainly doesn’t mean we can’t still try to support them or help them in some way. My only advice would be to keep your sanity intact in the process.

[KBC]

@Warmblood1

My only advice would be to keep your sanity intact in the process.

Perfect advice!

[MapleBreeze]

@TheBigEasy

So next time she asks me to haul her horse I should tell her I’m uninvolving myself?

You charge her for it.
As for questions - tell her those are questions to ask her trainer.

She’s with a trainer now.
It will be fine.

[findeight]

Little late on this one but agree its time for OP not to take this so personally. Its a common situation, nothing new. They can afford a trainer, the understand they need one, they have use of a saddle and if she wants to buy boots and bonnets? Good for her, kind of a fun side of owning…and trainer really cannot insist she buy this horse instead of that or it would end up a controlling trainer thread on here.

When OP offered to drive her 2 hours each way to buy a saddle, she might have declined because she felt OP was trying too hard to supervise her horse activity. Plus they really don’t need the saddle right now. I didn’t own a saddle for a couple of years after starting the ownership journey, borrowed or used a bareback pad (which was mine), I survived unscathed.

OP cannot change any of this, her advice is falling on deaf ears and the whole situation is a time and energy suck for OP. Refer all future questions to their paid professional vet, farrier and trainer and walk away. And stop giving free advice/ training or hauling.

Its not worth the angst, they aren’t going to change but OP can.

[lenapesadie]

My friends often do things that leave me scratching my head. I don’t stop being their friend just because I think they are making whack decisions. Sometimes I even need to “vent” about my friends and their choices.

Carry on OP

[endlessclimb]

See, I give people about 3 times of doing something ridiculous before I cut them loose.

I don’t want to be put in a position where I am faced with options of “talking @#$%” or potentially endorsing behavior, in the guise of friendship.

An example. Let’s say you’re friends with Suzie. Suzie does some whacko things. Billy, someone you don’t know well but appears to be a good horseman, comes up and says “Holy baby jesus, did you see Suzie yesterday?”

Now you’re faced with two options. Talk @#$% about your “friend” (even if it’s an honest assessment that’s how it will be perceived) or endorse her and her behavior.

Yeah, no thanks. I’m going to cut Suzie loose so I’m not placed in that position. To a large degree, I am the company I keep, and I don’t want someone who doesn’t know me to associate me with that crap.