napping AWAY from the yard? anyone any ideas?

[DressageChic2]

i will preface this by saying i would far rather have this problem than a horse that doesnt want to leave the yard or doesnt want to work! but as few of my trails are loop routes, i need to suss it!

Horse is a 4yo stallion (by Charmeur who i know is a bit kooky himself).

LOVES to hack out, bounces out the yard in a jaunty half passage with ears pricked so hard they meet, will walk past anything and everything and could not care less how far behind his buddy gets. He has walked through a village fete, through temp traffic lights, and trots/canters politely up a field in company or on his own.
for a baby stallion he is GOOD, not kick along, but pretty reliable.

i have the use of 100’s of acres of fields, but only to ride on the track round the edge and as all fields have corners, each time we turn a 90 deg and he is facing roughly toward home(even if home is a mile as the crow flies and despite the fact that i sort of serpentine round the edges, never doing 1 complete field) he will stop…he is not quick or dirty about it. He does not slam on the anchors or back up quickly he simply slows down, stops, cocks a leg and says NOPE dont wanna go home yet (he has never resisted leaving the yard ever or even considered it and is a fun, forward, cheerful ride in the school).

i CAN get him to bump start if i simply sit, and flick alternate shoulders with the buckle end of the reins. Not aggressive but hard so he flinches. it takes anything from 15sec to 1 min but he will always give it up and walk on without a murmur eventually. The more you try and trick him (spinning or backing or simply kicking him) the more angry he will get and then he WILL start to back up and half rear.

i feel like if the shoulder stinger gets the desired result with zero rise in temper thats good enough for me?

but why?! whats he trying to tell me?! is it as simple as he wants to be a trail horse lol!

he does 2 x 30mins in the school and 2 x 1.5 hours on the trails per week.
saddle is checked every 12 weeks, back checked on same schedule, teeth done every 6 months. He is perfect off the leg and in the hand at all times, except this tiny time slot.

out in the field 6.30am-3pm, ad lib hay and thats basically it. He is fat and hot, so no real hard feed required (he gets a small handful of dried grass chaff and a clenched fist of an organic,alfalfa and mollases free museli to carry his supplements- the museli is basically more dried grass, dried apple, and linseed).

he is super easy going, super happy at all times except when he doesnt want to go home! even if his buddy walks off away from him he will stand and look the other way!

would you really bother? or would you just think “weird baby horse” and not worry? i guess my concern is that it may escalate in to general behind the leg nappy attacks (although it shows no sign of doing so…)

[atlatl]

I’d keep working on it; one of you will give it up eventually hopefully it’s him

Have you turned him towards home, gone a bit, then turned back out again? Maybe more changes in direction would help.

Good Luck!

[merrygoround]

Requesting a future as a field hunter?

Really I should continue on as you are. He’s young and if this is the worst of his baby antics, consider yourself lucky.

You could try focusing on your riding to be sure you are not accidentally coasting as you make the turn. Many people do forget that corners and turns must be ridden.

[DressageChic2]

atlatl-round the fields i sort of do that, as i do say 3 sides of one field then though the gate, and in to the next, then 3 sides and so on, so i sort of zig zag around but do you mean actually doing a total 180 deg every so often and retracing steps, rinse and repeat a few times?

MGR-yep i am lucky! and i probably am cruising on a long rein, chatting and laughing and not paying attention sometimes albeit today the last time he tried it i was 100% on the ball as it was just after going through a very narrow gate so i had him totally on the aids and between hand and leg to make sure he didnt bulge sideways and bump my leg on the gate at all.

[scruffy_the_cat]

Put him on a little circle and bump/annoy (not hit) with your legs & whip in the direction he wants to go and lay off when he is pointing towards home. He should choose to go the “easy” way soon enough. Worth a try, anyway.

[piedmontfields]

I knew a thoroughbred who was like this when he was young. When I leased him as an older schoolmaster, he was a gentleman about returning home…although he would walk as slowly as you would let him. Turn him around and he would bounce happily away from the barn. He was an exceptional character and really a lovely horse in so many ways.

I suspect a bit more attention on your part, rather than escalation, will make the deal clear over time for your fellow.

[CenteredRiding]

Not for nothing, but what is “home” like? Standing in stall, or out at pasture? I’m thinking stallions have a more outgoing personality by nature, too. They’d be out scouting for danger (or new mares?), not standing around with the herd.

There’s a great video by a Grand Prix rider riding her stallion out around property. Not same situation as yours, but may be fun all the same. She wears a Go-Pro camera on helmet so we get the whole experience.

Taking New Horse Out for Trail Ride (Nearly 1st Time)

[DressageChic2]

see first post but he is out in the field from 6.30am -3pm every single day come rain wind or shine next to other geldings and has plenty of social contact ie allowed to sniff and mutual groom with them.
he is stabled on the busiest corner of the yard and his paddock is opposite the arena so he sees plenty of comings and goings…in other words home is a nice place to be…he is SUPER relaxed, no frantic whinneying or dashing around, he is ruled by food really!

thank you for the vid link will watch it at home

i very much try to keep the pressure on (shoulder stinger) whilst he is standing obstinate, and as soon as he makes even a vague shuffle forward with one foot, zero pressure. then ask calmly to walk on and if he goes, praise and if he stops back to the shoulder stinger.

i would be concerned that pressuring him when facing away from home would likely result in him learning he can tune out the leg?

i WILL make sure i am riding the corners next time out too!

[Scribbler]

Maybe make sure that when he goes home, he has a pleasant experience there. A good groom, a bath, a meal waiting for him?

My mare does something a little bit like this, on a much more subtle scale. She is happy enough to come home, but after I’ve dismounted and am leading her in the gate, she will pause and look up and down the driveway, like she’s telling me she wants to go handgraze or go roll in turnout, just isn’t ready to get back in the stall. And at the door of her stall she will also pause, and look longingly at the wash rack. I think they do like their time outside the barn!

[DressageChic2]

can certainly try, as he is ruled by food and scritchies!

to be fair in the AM he will come back, have a groom or a rinse and then go back out in the paddock (plenty of good grass and company) or in the late PM he will have the same groom and /or rinse and then tea.
but maybe i can be more obvious about dismounting and making a big fuss and providing mints?

[atlatl]

[QUOTE=DressageChic2;8779427]
atlatl-round the fields i sort of do that, as i do say 3 sides of one field then though the gate, and in to the next, then 3 sides and so on, so i sort of zig zag around but do you mean actually doing a total 180 deg every so often and retracing steps, rinse and repeat a few times?

…[/QUOTE]

Yes, that is what I meant. Good Luck!

[mzm_farm]

What does he do if you simply sit there and do nothing?

I had a bonafide balker in a trail string once. Kick, yank, pull, spur, whip - she would stand like a statue and completely tune out her rider. Turns out she wanted to be asked nicely and treated softly.

I would just stand there and cluck/voice command for forward now and then, praise when she moved. Light leg pressure, not increasing, just a tad stronger then when legs are just laying there quiet. Leg “off” when horse moves. Once she decided to move, she was praised. Over a few weeks she became a very happy easy and willing horse to ride.

Your horse will want to move eventually too.
That may be an annoying but very peaceful way of solving it.

Barn sour horses are frequently ridden hard when they get home so they like home less. Maybe you need to reverse it for your boy and make home nicer - ride back shortly after leaving, give small treat, ride back out. Repeat until he is obedient going either way.

You don’t want a horse calling the shots, especially a stallion. Although confrontation is not always best training.

Your way sounds pretty good too. Maybe just odd baby behavior.

[Dressagelvr]

The four year old horse is akin to a two year old child.

He’s developing his sense of self and testing the waters to see if he can move up in the pecking order above you. This and the next year will be the years that determine whether you lead or whether he does. Make sure it is you with gentle and fair, but firm boundaries.

I personally think that 1.5 hours is way too long to ride a baby. I’d cut back to 45 minutes out 2x per week and keep the 2x30 minutes in the school.

[Kimchi]

I might try carrying a dressage whip so you can tap the back end, that way you are taping the motor and there is not the risk of accidentally pulling on the reins like there is with using the buckle on the reins.

Also be very aware before hand, I have a mare that is nappy and the best way for me, is to not have the argument and be a very aware, tactful rider. I follow you on facebook and I know you are a lovely rider but it can be easy to miss the subtle hints that he will stop before he does.

[CenteredRiding]

[QUOTE=DressageChic2;8779664]
see first post but he is out in the field from 6.30am -3pm every single day come rain wind or shine next to other geldings and has plenty of social contact ie allowed to sniff and mutual groom with them.
he is stabled on the busiest corner of the yard and his paddock is opposite the arena so he sees plenty of comings and goings…in other words home is a nice place to be…he is SUPER relaxed, no frantic whinneying or dashing around, he is ruled by food really![/QUOTE]

Sorry, missed the part about “home.” I think you’re doing a fantastic job and did not mean to sound critical. (not that you took it that way – but just to make sure).

The vid link is interesting just because the owner/rider talks as she’s riding, explaining his personality, his motivation, how when he whinnies he’s saying, “Here I am! The greatest stallion in the world has just arrived!”

The out-going nature of the stallion. It’s just cute.

[DressageChic2]

atlatl-ok cool i can definitely try that easily and think perhaps you are right, and that turning 180 etc and mixing that up might solve the problem quicker.

mzm-i think i would sit still for a looooooooooooooooooooong time, he is happy to cock a leg and stare in to the distance, drinking in the birds, insects etc buzzing around, and the farm workers on the horizon etc.
i would be very hesitant to think he could in any way be barn sour as he has barely worked so far and has a lot of variety and a lot of turnout. I never hack then school so doubt he is associating returning home with more work if you know what i mean?

dressagelvr-the 1.5 hours is because we basically walk the entire way except maybe 2 very short trots and 2 even shorter canters. the long steady walks have helped him lose a bit of puppy fat and tone up just a smidge. we have built it up from 20 mins to this over nearly 8 months too, he is never tired or hot when we return.

kimchi-again i think i probably dont have him on the aids enough, if i have him truly connected and perhaps walking a bit SF then he’s going to be thinking about me so i’ll slap my wrist and try it.

and finally CR-no worries no offence taken. I know a lot of stallions have a difficult life with limited fun time and even more limited horse contact but i’m lucky enough that he’s at home, so i can make his life as ideal as possible and ensure its a relaxing place for him.

ok so plan for sunday:ride more on the aids, dont be a lazy rider, and mix up some 180 turns in there to keep him on MY wavelength.

[DressageChic2]

https://www.facebook.com/DiamondsintheRoughDressage/videos/1424707587556156/

fun link to hacking vid!

[Dressagelvr]

. dressagelvr-the 1.5 hours is because we basically walk the entire way except maybe 2 very short trots and 2 even shorter canters. the long steady walks have helped him lose a bit of puppy fat and tone up just a smidge. we have built it up from 20 mins to this over nearly 8 months too, he is never tired or hot when we return.

It isn’t about how he seems. It is about the fact that he is a baby and his bones, joints, muscles, and other soft tissue are still developing. Heck, all his growth plates aren’t even closed.

I don’t even sit on mine until they are four for that reason. The horses that are brought along more slowly have longer, healthier careers.

I would also say that some of your issues are because he’s too young to focus for so long out on the trails. No matter how he looks or seems, he’s just a baby.

It sounds like you’re doing so many things right and that he’s a super horse. Just be careful with him. You don’t want to go past his limits.

[snowrider]

Your horse is a dog? My dog does this It sounds like he just enjoys being out and about and has no interest in going back home quite yet. I think this will go away as he gets older and works more but in the meantime it sounds like you are doing fine with him.

[Zonderpaard]

If he’s food motivated, why not enlist your hacking buddy. Before the turn towards home, buddy dispenses cookies. Make the turn with buddy in front, buddy heads for home then stops and gets fed a cookie. Maybe only a couple meters ahead. Then offer cookie to your horse. I’d try to find a non-confrontational way to break this pattern.