Navicular issues? Updated post 14

[walktheline]

Facing a hard decision and just looking for some thoughts. Looking at a horse for purchase and loved just about everything about her, except that she has some navicular issues on one front foot that come up on X-rays. I sent to my vet and he said they were not the prettiest but “probably ok.” Said the distal border is fairly rough likely with some fragmentation. But that the feet themselves look good which makes him feel ok about it overall and the rest of the bone looks healthy as well, would classify it as a “moderate” issue. Have baseline X-rays from two years ago and some from last week. No changes in the 2 years. Horse has been sound and in work during that time, but is only 7. Will never have to jump more than 2’6 with me.

Would you pass or buy? I am limited in my budget and I’m afraid I won’t find anything else suitable if I pass. But, I also have a horse that had to be retired young due to a career ending diagnosis, and really don’t want to go through that again.

[endlessclimb]

Pass.

No hoof, no horse.

[findeight]

What kind of work has he been doing and how often? How high is he regularly schooling and is there a show record?

In other words, define “ in work”. And who is telling you he has been sound for 2 years in “work”.

Oh, and how familiar are you with the seller? Are you dealing with them directly or through an agent? Vetting the seller is as important as vetting the horse…and horses don’t….ahhhh…skirt the truth, puff him up or just lie.

[walktheline]

5x week in a professional show program. No show record yet, has been schooling 2’6

[AskMyAccountant.17]

Knowing some horses of my own that had mild navicular changes with no issues in their upper-level careers, if my vet said “feels ok about it overall” I would likely go with a horse I really liked.
I would lean in on vet and ask more questions, give a worst case scenario, and what are odds of that occuring. We can tell you yes or no, but I dont think findings on an otherwise sound horse should steer you away, if not give you some information for the future.

[NaturallyHappy]

Your vet is going to have to take care of this horse. If he or she feels positive about this horse, I’d move forward if this horse checks the rest of your boxes. Any of them can get hurt (which I know you know) and have a problem going forward.

[BrownDerby]

Do you have a good farrier to discuss this with? Therapeutic shoeing and good footing can make a world of difference.

I had a friend who sold her navicular horse. She turned down the prospective buyer who only wanted to do trail riding, knowing that they were not up to the proper necessary shoeing. He went instead as a youth’s move up horse, because he could do the 2’6 with no issues with the proper therapy.

[findeight]

[quote=“walktheline, post:1, topic:796978”]
…“moderate” issue. Have baseline X-rays from two years ago and some from last week. No changes in the 2 years. Horse has been sound and in work during that time, but is only 7….
[/quote

Has he been in that 5x a week program for the 2 years since the baseline x rays? Forgive me, always suspicious of seller claims…not that I think its a lie but… details sometimes get left out.

Have bought horses with known issues but my definition of “in work” on this one would be 4-5 rides a week for at least the last year and demonstrated ability over 2’6”, including oxers and a lead change. That is what you are buying him to do. Right? And he is halfway through his 7th year, not 5.

He doesn’t have to be polished but it has to be there to show his “ moderate issue” with navicular is not going to be a disappointing money suck.

I would want proof he is sound in work.

[NaturallyHappy]

@walktheline

Have baseline X-rays from two years ago and some from last week. No changes in the 2 years.

This is important.

[walktheline]

So I know the seller and believe they are trustworthy. The horse has been schooling 2’6 with lead changes for the last 6-8 months. Before that he was jumping closer to xrail-2’ level with changes in a 5x week program because that was the level his owner was riding at.

[Paint_Party]

I recently bought a performance horse, although not for jumping. I had looked for a long time and was getting really discouraged, even though I kept increasing my budget. There were three horses I did like, but they had horrendous xrays where I walked away.

I ended up buying a 12-year-old mare that was in a training program and showing regularly at a higher level than I’ll ever do with her. She had some navicular changes compared to her xrays done 5 years ago (seller and I have same vet). Since the mare is not on any maintenance other than yearly Adequan, is staying sound and is pretty much exactly what I’d been looking for, I felt like she was worth taking a chance. I even sent the xrays to my former vet in SoCal, and she concurred with my decision.

Every horse you buy is taking a chance. You have to decide if this particular horse is worth taking a chance in your situation. The mare I bought will always have a home. We’ll retire together. So ultimately, you have to ask yourself, “What will I do if the navicular progresses faster than I expected and I end up with a horse with limited use and soundness problems?”

[greysfordays]

I would just add it matters where you are located. If you’re like me in Southern California where the ground is dry and hard and unforgiving, you need to be more picky on anything navicular.

If you’re somewhere that has rain and more normal soft ground, and you have access to a really good farrier, I would be more open to this setup. I agree that getting more feedback from your vet on what maintenance could be like for this horse would be helpful.

[walktheline]

Frustrating update

I wanted another opinion so I sent the images to a vet from a well respected clinic that I’ve worked with in the past. He is going to call me later tonight to discuss in more detail, but he stated there are “increased navicular changes” from 2 years ago. The two other vets who looked at both sets previously said no changes. My vet even used the word “identical.” I expect there to be some differences in opinion on whether or not the horse will hold up to the job or if they recommend purchase or not but frustrating that I have two people saying no change at all and the opposite from another while all are viewing the same set of X-rays. All 3 vets are from well respected practices that deal with performance/show horses.

Ugh. This has me leaning towards passing, which is really disappointing because I can’t find anything else to even go try.

[NaturallyHappy]

I’m really sorry you got that news. Perhaps when you chat, it will make things clear for you.

[Paint_Party]

@walktheline

Ugh. This has me leaning towards passing, which is really disappointing because I can’t find anything else to even go try.

Such difference in opinions is disheartening, and I can certainly see why you’re left feeling confused and discouraged.

If you decide to pass on this horse, persevere, because the right horse is out there. It just takes a while to find it. And sometimes strange circumstances occur, and you end up finding the perfect horse when you least expect it.

[paw]

I’m going to disagree - life is short, horses can do amazingly stupid things to themselves, and you don’t ride the x-rays.

Is the horse performing at (or beyond) the level you’re expecting? Is it within your price range (now and in the future)? How much do you like this horse?

Don’t buy a horse because you’re tired of looking. OTOH, don’t wait for “the perfect horse”. I’ve had horses who don’t vet last forever, and lost one with perfect xrays to a seizure disorder. Only you can decide if you’re ready to take a chance, but at the bottom of it all, a chance is all you’re going to have to go on.

Best of luck!

[Bonnie2]

Do you 100% believe that the horse has not been treated with medications or injections? If the horse is currently sound with no intervention that is one thing and sound with intervention is another.

What breed is the horse? Warmbloods don’t seem to show clinical signs as much as QHs or thoroughbreds with similar xrays.

My experience has been that horses with changes will have issues eventually. How soon and how bad depends on farriery, work management and luck. There are many useful treatments these days to extend a horse’s sound working life. If the horse is pretty much everything you want, currently sound with no medication, and you are willing to take on the careful management that will maintain her soundness as long as possible, I would go for it. The perfect horse does not exist. Choose one with imperfections you can live with.

[findeight]

@Bonnie2

depends on farriery, work management and luck. There are many useful treatments these days to extend a horse’s sound working life

Yes, and they add to the ongoing cost of keeping one. If your budget is tight, please understand what your shoeing costs will be to manage navicular issues. Need a qualified farrier working with your vet, stick to a firm schedule, usually more frequently, added cost for wedgies, pads etc. May progress to Legend/Adequan and/or IA injections etc.

That’s fine IF you love him, he’s perfect for your needs and you can AFFORD what he will need.

Last one I had with these issues was a, cheap, starved project, no PPE, no history so I took the risk plus could afford to carry him. Figure he cost me an extra 800-1k a year to keep him comfortable. That was 20 years ago.

[Ponyplusaninch]

When you speak with this vet, be sure to ask even if there have been changes, are the manageable changes?

The perfect PPE doesn’t exist IMO. And when I’ve seen folks get one that is perfect, horses do the horse thing and manage to duck themselves up another way.

Really when looking at x-rays, I ask my vet and my farrier if this is an individual they think can a) handle the job and workload I want them to do and b) can they as professionals provide the support the animal needs. If there’s hesitation, I have my answer. But more often than not, with the right balance of fitness, shoeing, and veterinary support, most horses do just fine at the lower levels. And that’s a GOOD thing because more often than not, horses who don’t have jobs end up in not-great situations down the line–I say this more generally vs. me trying to say “if you don’t buy this horse bad things happen.”