NAYC in Traverse City this week

Results and schedule are found here if anyone is interested:

https://blackhorse-one.com/results/1029

USEF live streaming is covering some of the show:

The Junior team test slated for the first day didn’t happen. We had phenomenal rain and microbursts in the area overnight that took down many tents, and threw banners, arena parts, and letters all around the show grounds. There was standing water in many places and the winds knocked out the power and water to the facility for a few hours in the morning, including through the scheduled 8am start time.

No horses or riders were hurt and the entire class was moved to today, which then changed the scheduling of the YR team tests as well. The GGT footing and base held up beautifully.

Many very nice horses from all over North America are competing and the talented kids and their support crews all seem enthusiastic and very positive about the footing and facility, despite the weather delays.

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There were a lot of eliminations in the YR team test: Three of the four riders in Region 5/9 were eliminated, and regions 2 and 3 each had a horse eliminated. All of these horses passed the jog. Seems a bit odd to me.

whoa…what happened? After or before the tests?

During the tests - they had no score, just “EL”. I guess the judge and the trot-up jury have different standards for lameness. I’m interested in seeing the tapes. It’s an awfully high proportion of eliminations. Can anyone on the ground there comment?

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I wonder if they were irregular? Or maybe the horses all shut down. That’s so bizzare. I wonder if the rings were wet from the storm?

There was one JR horse eliminated and that livestream recording is available to watch. I skipped through the livestream recording until I found the test, and yes, he was definitely irregular. His feet looked good so it wasn’t a shoeing thing (to my eye). At some points I thought maybe he was rein-lame, or just losing balance in the extensions. The rider wasn’t eliminated right away, she got through most of the trot tour before she was eliminated. I’ve seen horses that were more irregular that weren’t eliminated.

The footing looked… okay? No puddles, didn’t look slick or deep or uneven, but it is hard to judge from the livestream feed.

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I watched the YR live, the 4 that were rung out were definitely unlevel/irregular. Some of them maybe wouldn’t have been rung out at a National show, some would have.

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They were all eliminated for being uneven. Eliminations have already started today. Each of these horses passed the jog at the start of this comp on hard ground. Even the commentator commented that it was a contact issue and not a lameness on one horse. Common unevenness due to age and confirmation related and probably all of these horses are managed for these issues. Very sad. The crowd yesterday cheered very loudly for every rung out competitor.

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I hope in a supportive way and not in a …happy they were eliminated way?

I can’t imagine what these poor riders are facing. A lot to take in.

Are there live scores anywhere?

Happy and supportive!!!
Today Nicho asked the spectators to cheer for Jr rung out this morning.

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Just as a note, the president of the ground jury (ie the judge at C, and the judge responsible for ringing horses out) is part of the jog panel and has the final say as far as accept/reject. The veterinarian just gives their opinion.

This has been an issue at NAYC before (multiple eliminations for unevenness), although not to this extent that I can recall. I guess they are more likely to be riding older campaigners. And footing could definitely be a contributor, since they are jogged on hard ground not arena footing. But it still seems particularly traumatic for teenagers, many at their first CDI, to ring them out if it’s not a blatant lameness. And that if a judge has seen the horses jog appropriately on hard ground maybe they could give the benefit of the doubt that it is a rein/contact issue?

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This is what I was thinking. Usually, the true lameness shows up in the jog. The one competitor I’ve seen so far, the unevenness came and went, as did the frame and balance, which is par for the course at this level. I’m withholding judgement until I watch the saved stream and see the rest of the eliminations.

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I am somewhat familiar with one of the situations as owner posted a video clip this morning. Hard to evaluate from that as the horse shortened trot steps thru the corner and then went away from camera in the extension. Maybe I see something but dont know the horse that well. Maybe a balance issue. Dunno. This is not an older horse.

Not sure. I searched for results last night and ended up on a wild goose chase from one official website to another. Haven’t looked for the scores from today, but they must be available someplace.

Unfortunately ride times aren’t posted before the class because (according to USDF) there’s no way to publish them after the draw. So unless you have some inside intel, you watch the live stream and wait for the rider you want to see enter the ring at some point. :slight_smile:

It’s being run like a CDI, so ride times are a draw the evening before the class, which is why the ride times are not available until the night before the class. I just checked and the ride times are available for the YR individual for tomorrow morning. In their defense, they’ve had terrible weather this week that has required a lot of last minute changes.

Here is a link to the site with the live results:

https://results.equestrian-hub.com/show/1029

I’ve had a really hestic week, so I only have the chance to check results at the end of the day, but it appears that there are provisional results as a class goes along and at least at the end of a class you can click on a specific rider to see the individual movement scores across the judging panel.

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Thank you for the link to the results !

I’m sorry the link to the results that I posted in the OP didn’t seem to work. It is a European based website that is not so easy to navigate so maybe that’s why.

For those commenting on the number of eliminations:

I was there scribing all day Friday so I can give a little insight into the eliminations. But because the electronic scribing method is new to me and takes a lot of focus, and because the JR individ test has so many movements, I was looking down and not at the horses when the lameness decisions were made by the judges. So I don’t have an opinion of my own on whether the horses were visibly lame, or, how lame.

First, I can say it wasn’t the footing. The footing there ranks among the best of any big venue and many people commented on that. Whomever installed the bases under the GGT did it perfectly. That storm overnight Tuesday-Wed was a deluge and left mud and puddles everywhere on the property, yet, the rings were cleared for riding by 10am Wed. It was almost hard to believe how well the drainage system worked underneath the rings. Riders and coaches were very impressed and the horses seemed to go exceptionally well in it.

During the tests, the jury for this champs is made up of more European judges than US judges and I think they were being particularly detailed in scrutinizing the pairs. You can see from the score trends that they have been on the low side of the norm, for the most part. And I think that tighter scrutinization, plus the number of judges, includes a closer examination of irregularities in the trots as the tests begin. As compared to most of our regular recognized shows around the Country.

I think the poster who suggested that many of these horses are more senior/seasoned veterans hit onto part of the reason.

When I was scribing, I was writing “irregular” frequently in the boxes of the particular tests that led to the pair being rung out for lameness. In the earliest parts of the tests, obviously. The first mediums across the diagonal and then the first shoulder in are informative as to how off/unevenly a horse is moving, in both tests I scribed on Friday. But as I said I did not see the lameness myself in the majority of the cases because I was looking intently at the keyboard and the screen.

The e-system allows judges around the court to make a call of “lameness” by having the scribe toggle a switch marked that. It then pops up as a flag on the screens of all five scribes, and it shows which judge(s) made the call. The judge at C has the final word on elimination and can choose to ignore the flag (s) and let the pair continue. Or, to agree. And to then have his/her scribe toggle the button also. Then ring the bell and eliminate the pair.

The adolescent and young adult riders all took the news in an extremely sportsmanlike way while in the public eye. I was very impressed by how well. The cheering and clapping responses from their teams and the other spectators gave them moral support in a rough moment.

And I can also say that none of the riders, not a single one, appeared shocked or surprised when told, “I am so sorry, but we are seeing lameness today.”

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I think this raises an important issue about the scoring trends in Europe vs North America in general. Particularly in Wellington, where we often see the same judges and riders week after week, I have heard a lot of knowledgeable people claim that scores are inflated and that the same rides would score significantly less at European shows.

Hard lesson for these juniors to learn, but perhaps this is the standard of scoring, and evaluating unevenness, that should always be applied. Particularly re soundness concerns - that’s an animal welfare issue and I’m not sure there’s any good reason to let it slide.

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Then it seems that the lameness/irregularity was also visible/felt in the warm-up. With the number of eliminations, at least some of the horses were off before they entered the show ring. If so, is the trainer’s strategy to allow the rider to go into the test anyway, and hope that the judges don’t notice ?

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