Need advice with behavioral issue when tacking?

[SuzieQNutter]

Or it is the one thing she has gotten away with and is milking it to a t.

I bought A OTTB. Watching then handle him he was ordered to do everything. Never asked just ordered. He was pretty good and quiet.

The one thing he got away was with being sprayed. He would really bung it on. Rearing. Running around you. The lot. Reaction 10 even when sprayed with water.

I didn’t let him get away with it. It took about 2 weeks and I could spray him without a halter on.

I figured the debriso must have really stung when sprayed on a wound.

Nope, after he stopped reacting to being sprayed he didn’t show any reaction to wounds being sprayed either.

[DressageChic2]

i see you are treating for ulcers so thats one tick off my list, if no joy i would scan her ovaries and have this side of things checked by the vet.

if she comes up clean it sounds like impatience to me aka no manners! My 4yo stallion is similar in that he has zero issues and is dope on a rode but once he sees tack and knows hes going out for a ride he is all GO GO GO.

with him i go for the *wanna move well off you trot * approach, and as soon as he fidgets i make him briskly walk tight circles round me several times, then halt and try again…this works for tacking and mounting and now he is spot on and if he DOES move it takes one repetition at most to remind him that fidget=work.

[SuzieQNutter]

Interesting that people use moving as punishment. Do you and then then see if as punishment when you want them to move to be lunged or ridden?

[x]

Does she stand still for UNtacking? If she stands fine for untacking, I would guess the moving is related to girthing up. I find that mares especially can be hard to girth. I have had a draftX that was very, very difficult to girth, and currently have a draftX mare that wants to move for girthing. The mare doesn’t x-tie well, so is usually tacked in her stall. What has worked for us: find a girth that the horse likes better. I use elastic-end girths on the two horses above, but had another girthy horse that I used a balding girth on, and she liked it better than the elastic girths, to the point that I am thinking about switching my draftX mare to the balding girth. Then, we fed the horse something–my uncle used to give his girthy horse a full apple; horse was too busy trying to eat it to be a problem. That works for the girthy horse that wants to bite. For the one that won’t stand girthing, we retrained her to stand by feeding her treats while girthing her. Now: The MOST IMPORTANT THING with these horses was to NOT tighten the girth–in the case of the worst horse, we put it on the first hole on each side so it was so loose it wasn’t hardly touching the horse. For these horses we tighten the girth after we walk them-- to the ring, maybe tighten it a little, then walk them some more steps, then tighten it again. With both these horses they improved with that treatment to where they were reasonable to saddle. And, both these horses initially acted up when we appeared with tack! And it was a girthing issue! Finally, for the mounting issue, we feed treats until they learn to stand–get a helper and feed a treat while you mount and after you are on, you in the saddle give the horse a treat. Horse stands waiting until you have given it a treat. The other way you can do this work is to use clicker training (which also uses a treat) either way, that is the way I have solved the problem. Cross-ties help; otherwise tying in the corner of a stall. But seriously, you need to barely put the girth on, then tighten it slowly after walking the horse.

[Haybert]

Seriously don’t get the “getting away with it” thing.

Maybe if it’s known jerk maneuver, but it could be pain or fear.

Tacking up shouldn’t be about how fast you get on board, but discrete sessions of getting her used to it with positive outcomes, like just setting a pad on her back and be done for that session.

Not sure if clicker training was mentioned, but that will help shape her behavior.

[SuzieQNutter]

I used the ‘getting away with it’ phrase because the horse was perfect for everything else.

He got away with this one behaviour with his strappers and as I said his reaction had escalated to a 10. Rearing the lot.

I was told 2 things when I bought him. You can’t spray him and he doesn’t like people. They said that as he would hide behind trees every day to be caught.

Here he galloped to me when called. If you came to visit, well as far as he was concerned you came solely to play with him and he would be there wanting to be stroked from when you arrived to when you left. I could spray his head and ears and entire body with permoxin without a halter.

But yes he was more than a handful at 16.2hh that first time we tried to spray. I can see why I was forewarned. So I trained him to be able to be sprayed from day 1 before he injured himself and I would want to do it.

[NancyM]

[QUOTE=Stacie;8732968]
She’s telling you that something is bothering her the only way she knows how.

QUOTE]

This.

The question is… what is she trying to tell you? Either it is a pain issue, OR she is telling you that she does not respect you enough to stand still for tacking. One, or the other. If you think the latter is not the case, then it is the former. Where the pain is, or what is causing it is the mystery. It doesn’t have to be ulcers even if it looks like ulcers, but it can still be gut pain. Digestive problems… too high protein in the diet is one possibility. This can have gone on for many years, sometimes sub clinical, sometimes bothersome. Try changing the feed to a lower protein.

Good luck. Stuff like this can be hard to diagnose. But no, it is not usually “behavioral” if your horse is normally well mannered and cooperative with your plans.

[Pocket_Pony]

[QUOTE=SuzieQNutter;8734117]
Interesting that people use moving as punishment. Do you and then then see if as punishment when you want them to move to be lunged or ridden?[/QUOTE]

Is there a specific post you are referring to where someone said “punish your horse by making it move?” Perhaps you are referring to “make the wrong thing difficult and the right thing easy.” I don’t see that as punishment. I see it for what it is. The horse wants to move its feet? Fine, move your feet. But you don’t get to just jump around and be antsy in your pantsy, we are going to direct that energy into doing something useful. Now I will offer you an opportunity to stand still. Are you ready for that? Yes - great. No - okay, no problem, we’ll just move your feet again…until standing still might seem like the better option.

It is like getting on your horse when it is fresh. You don’t say, “we are going to practice the halt today, even though you haven’t been out for a few days because of bad weather - I think you need to stand still.” You say, “I understand you feel like you’ve been cooped up and need to move. Let’s move this way, or that way, or have a little gallop to blow it out, or whatever.” And then when your horse has gotten the sillies out, you can work on your halt.

I would always be one to check out any physical issues first, though. Make double triple sure that there’s not something wrong - since the issue is saddling, I would first look at the saddle. I’d have my chiro out to look at the horse to see if it was out anywhere. I’d check the saddle, pad, girth, the whole picture.

Failing any positive findings, I would treat it as a training issue.

[CFFarm]

OK. so your horse knows how to behave on the crossties. She’s fine about everything else…so she either is avoiding the saddle because of pain or incorrect riding, she had a traumatic event while being tacked up or someone tried to reward her for behaving or punished her for mis-behaving with incorrect timing and taught her to dance around instead.

A video of the exact way she reacts would help to see why she does what she does. For whatever reason, start from scratch like she was a completely green horse and teach her to tack up one step at a time. Of course if it’s saddle or girth fit you will have to change them. Pain? She’ll need some time off (and probably robaxsin). Your could start again with a bareback pad and see if that makes a difference.

It will take as long as it takes. JMHO

[Palm_Beach]

[QUOTE=SuzieQNutter;8734117]
Interesting that people use moving as punishment. Do you and then then see if as punishment when you want them to move to be lunged or ridden?[/QUOTE]

I don’t punish. Any aggressive behavior is met with me sending the horse away. Since I’ve already taught the horse to move away, this is not a punishment, simply a cue to move. After a very short while, the horse puts 2 and 2 together and realizes that if it stands patiently, it gets to stand instead of move.

Standing with me is a happy, restful place. Being away from me means working. There is no emotion or anger or punishment going on. And once they get it, they get it. Then you can clip them and spray them and put crinkly rain sheets on them etc and they don’t mind. They understand that I am not going to hurt them or do anything bad to them, so they become more accepting of whatever it is I do to them.

[DJohn]

SuzieQ, the movement is not punishment it is merely allowing the horse to do what they wanted but making it on your terms. Sometimes they want to worm about and not stand still. You’re not going to continually tell them “stand, stand, stand” with the same results each time. You’re going to say “ok, you want to move, off you go then! When I’m ready to let you stop, we will work on standing”. The horse quickly learns that standing is the correct behavior.

Horses will always choose to do whatever is easiest for them, they prefer to do the least amount of work possible. Making them move tells them “if I don’t stand still, I have to trot around, but if I DO stand still, I get to relax”.

The way you phrase it, you make it sound as though horses enjoy working. To a horse, work is work, and yes, they’d much rather be standing at the bale chowing down than carrying us around in circles for an hour! If you gave the horse a long rein and said “do whatever you like” you can bet they’d plant themselves at the arena gate and stare off into the paddock (or immediately begin to eat whatever grass they can find)! It’s all relative!

Though I’m certain different methods work for different horse personalities, that’s the one that’s always worked for me. I also constantly feed my horse treats without him ever becoming nippy/aggressive which I know some people could never get away with. Every horse is different!