Need advice: Young horse - jumping issues

[slp2]

My 5 year old is a puzzle for me and my trainer. Wondering if someone here has some advice. I bought this horse at age 3, primarily because of her laid back temperament. She was already started (but barely) and has been a really fun horse for an ammy like me, to bring along. She is a sensible and sane type—doesn’t care if she is ridden alone, with others, hacks out, etc. If I take her off the farm, there is no drama, she does her job and is level-headed.

As she has gotten older (and stronger) she has a lot more “go” but is still a good egg. She is really starting to understand half-halts and is getting more balanced in the canter. We have done a lot of showing in dressage and primarily focus on that discipline. I do lots of crazy cavaletti set-ups though (horse physio is my inspiration) and she is very keen to those.

However, when we introduce jumping into the party, everything goes off the rails. She is very willing to jump—and soft, listening as you approach the jump. But once she lands----she powers off (aka “tail on fire” style). We have worked on exercises that involve her doing “stuff” after landing (poles, turning exercises, etc.) My trainer has lots of experience with jumpers and has a lot of creative exercises. We started jumping her last spring (she was 4 1/2 then) and she immediately “got it” but she also was a little overconfident right off the bat.

We thought that she would improve over time. We NEVER overface her because we want the experience to be positive. Cross poles and trotting poles ad nauseam. But, now, six months or more later, we are still stuck at doing one jump at a time (or maybe a gymnastics of 2 jumps) from a trot. Once she lands, after even a tiny x, she takes off and then you have to trot around for 5 minutes before you have her brain back. Cantering to the jumps does not work–she gets even stronger. My trainer and I don’t see her as “worried” or lacking confidence about jumping—it’s almost like she has too much confidence.

Took her xc schooling this fall. I have taken 3 of my horses out for their first xc baby school. She was braver than any I have experienced. She barely blinked an eye at the jumps—but she was really strong after the fence. We couldn’t jump more than one jump in a row because she wouldn’t “come back” until you walked around for a bit to chill her out.

My trainer has always been pretty upbeat and positive about her. Today, she rode her and after another repeat of the same behavior, we were just scratching our heads. After this much time, we should be able to ride around a small course of jumps, or do a gymnastics line, but we are still in the same place.

[leheath]

What does she do if you lunge her over a small jump? Have you tried a small bounce or one stride gymnastic to give her something to focus on after the first jump? If yes, what happened?

IME, every horse I’ve seen do this is either lacking confidence and/or balance and makes up for it with speed or has just never been firmly told that yahoo-ing after the jump is not OK (assuming there are no physical problems like shoulder issues).

[Huntin_Pony]

What you are describing are two different issues, each of which presents an opportunity (and a challenge), it seems to me. The first issue is why she scoots after the fences and the second one is that she gets wound up to the point that minutes are required for her to “chill out.”

As for the scooting, every time I’ve had this issue with a horse it related somehow to the landing phase of the jump and how it feels to the horse. For example, am I dropping back into the saddle a little too early, are the points of the saddle interfering with the horse’s shoulders upon landing, is the saddle rocking, am I tipping forward, etc, etc, etc. The response to leheath’s question about free-jumping may go a ways to answering this one. You might also see something if you can get a friend to video you and then play it back in slo-mo.

To me, the second issue is a big deal. Horses need to learn how to “chill themselves out” after they get tense, excited, frightened, or whatever. This is a skill that the rider/trainer can encourage whenever the opportunity presents itself (i.e., when the horse gets wound up). I can’t provide a recipe for this other than to say that this is when your leadership is most important to the horse. My attitude would be something like - “okay I understand that was exciting for you but we have a job to do here and I need your cooperation to do it. Let’s go buddy.”

I have a young horse with whom I’m doing this now. He is much better about recovering his demeanor than he was a few months ago and I attribute that to consistency and pushing the boundaries a little bit at a time. You can work on this separate from the jumping situation and it will help the next time it pops up in that context.

Good luck.

[DrHB]

@slp2 your mare is going through something that mine often do, but yours in stuck in that phase for far longer. My youngsters often go through a phase during which they bolt and run after jumps, and often rush as well. They get over it when they get stronger and more “broke” over the fences. I am sure you have ruled out pain, back issues, and all that.

@leheath’s post above is 100%. How is she when you free-jump her? Lunging over jumps?

I would do poles on the ground on a circle, over and over and over. I am sure you know and have used the 20m circle with 1-4 jumps before. You can do this on 30 meters. Ad naseum. I would skip jumping any fences on a straight line for awhile. Make everything on a circle. 1-2 jumps or poles per circle. Maybe 2 circles in the ring (assuming you are indoors now with the weather). I would not vary the jumps. I would just let her be bored and methodical and repetitive. Go from pole on the barn to a 6" to a 12" and keep it all on the circle.

She will get “broke” after this exercise and I would include it every ride. You can gradually branch out and canter from one circle to the other and throw in a jump but always on a bending line.

Wish I were there as this is a puzzle I have worked through many times in the past. I bet you will have a lovely jumper by spring time!

[sunhawk]

I had this issue a bit with a horse I took up to training level for a friend. He was over eager, and I had to make it a bit boring for him, I set long grid lines with correct distances but everything on the ground and just worked back and forth trot and canter till he settled. A good jumping exercise is 4 jumps on a 40 meter circle and vary the pattern, for example, jump one, circle, jump two circle, jump one, miss one.
Robin Hahn is an old time eventer here in BC who has excellent exercises for horses that get quick. He sets a grid line of 6 small verticals, or cross-poles, at 21 ’ apart. There are a few exercises to do through this grid. Sorry I have no way to diagram it, so have to do my best to describe…jump fence one, and immediately circle a very small circle, to come to fence 2, and do that all the way down the line … 2nd exercise is to jump #1 on an angle, go around #2 and come to #3 on an angle to go around #4, jump #5, go around #6 to come back to #5 and go back down the same way, angling through the jumps
Also, anytime the horse builds any speed that the rider hasn’t asked for, one-rein stop down to halt. Repeat till the horse will hold the pace without being restricted to the pace by the rider

[sunhawk]

Basically, what is happening, is your horse is landing unbalanced and is simply running on her forehand, and pulling on the reins can’t correct the problem at all. She needs to be taught how to adjust her balance

[Rainier]

This thread is super helpful for me too! I can totally relate! Thanks

[snowrider]

That sounds like a pain issue, any chance your saddle is sitting down on her spine somewhere or something is sticking her or hurting as she lands? Does she do it on the lunge line or free jumping or only under saddle? Is she shod yet? Throw her head or root or get behind the bit on landing?

With a good experienced trainer and a good rider who is taking it slow I really doubt this is a training issue and would be free jumping her a bit and trying different saddles/ front shoes/ having the vet out etc.

[RAyers]

I am going completely opposite from what others are saying here.

My opinion with horses like this is, “who cares?” If my youngsters can come to the fences and jump, why do I care what they do on the back side? If they want to yuck it up and run into the next fence, that is their problem. I’m not going to protect them. And if they challenge the ride in the corners, so what? So long as they can get to the next fence.

Sometimes it is when riders try to over control the horses that the horses explode. Then the rider thinks more control or training is necessary when the opposite is true. The rider simply needs to stop trying and let the horse have some ownership in the ride.

Now, the responsibility of the rider is to stay balanced, supple, in connection during the whole thing which is also not easy nor readily taught nowadays. Of course, I have the reputation for having somewhat crazy horses that jump anything in front of them.

I don’t know this horse so I don’t know what the answer really is. But be wiling to also go opposite of what your trainer is doing.

[slp2]

Thanks for the responses. Some really good ideas and thoughts here. I do want to try lunging her over jumps— haven’t done that since last winter— so that would be a good data point to have in sorting this out. I am fairly sure this isn’t a pain issue. While I will not claim to be a perfect rider over fences, my trainer is quite capable and she has had the same issues when she is on board. We have tried different saddles — she goes the same. I have a great massage person that works on my horses every month. She assesses whether there ar any issues going on with saddle fit, soreness, etc. My vet and massage person have been really happy with her development. Neither of them have any concerns with her soundness. Horse does have front shoes. I’m just providing this info so you know I am a responsible owner/ rider who has vets and others looking at my horses regularly.

To provide a better description— she doesn’t " yahoo" much on the back side (no kicking up or head flinging) she merely powers off and then becomes very strong. And then she also gets mentally amped up for a bit. Which makes progresssive work tough, because she isn’t relaxed. I do think it’s the fact that she loses her balance on landing and gets a little worried. Her canter is getting much more balanced, we have worked on it a lot in the flatwork too. It’s a big canter and she is at the stage where it’s not really adjustable yet. Her trot is adjustable and we incorporate a lot of transitions within that gait to build up her strength. But the canter is still work in progress. That being said, when my other horses were young and unbalanced, they seemed to handle little gymnastics and courses without too much angst.

Like the ideas about jumping the “wheel of death” exercise with her (our affectionate name for that exercise). I haven’t tried that with her. It’s a challenging exercise even for my older, experienced horse. I can start out with poles on the ground and see how it goes.

Rayers— your post is interesting too and something I need to consider. She is easier to ride outdoors where I can just let her canter on and work in a bigger space. This horse is jumper bred. She is out of a stallion that was a GP jumper in the Netherlands. I don’t plan to do jumper stuff with her, but I like my horses to do a little of everything (regardless of what I compete them in). More to follow— I am traveling for the holiday, but definitely plan to try some of these ideas when I am back.

[Jealoushe]

My friends horse did this…for two years. Same age etc. Tried many trainers. Finally she sold her as a dressage horse. New owner x-rayed her hocks and they both had bad chips requiring surgery. She was sound. Could be the case or not, just thought I would share a story of similar experience.

[solarflight]

I had a horse that was very similar to what you describe. He ended up having stifle issues. Might be something to look in to. Could be totally off base, but you never know!

[slp2]

Jealoushe and Solarflight—also things I can check into. I had a PPE done when I bought her, but since then I have not done X-rays of her hocks. And /or the stifles. Thank you.

[mfleming13]

Is she careful? If you were to point her at another fence after her initial jump and run would she plow through it or would she pay attention? Sometimes making them think for themselves is the best way to go about it, but it depends on the horse. One horse of mine rushed fences horribly and would land strong and take off, one particularly bad day I just dropped the reins and let her run at the fence - when she realized that wasn’t a good plan and I wasn’t going to protect her she became much more rideable. Once we got through this phase we often included bounces into our courses to keep her paying attention. Not really something to do with a green horse, but just a thought.

My other horse went through a brief face of bolting after fences and I found not reacting (ex getting strong/pulling on them) was the best way to solve this issue. Instead of worrying about how strong she is, pull her on a circle and let her find her own balance and settle into the rhythm of the canter. If you truly think it’s a balance issue and it’s upsetting to her then let the canter have more time to develop and revisit the jumping in a few months.

[Horseman15]

My OTTB did this for quite a while. I did a number of things with him. First I pulled him in to a tight half circle and we reversed directions after the jumps. Next I put up double fences. I used the heavy wooden poles on the second jump so when he decided to run and not pay attention it’d get his attention for him. I did like @mfleming13 did and just let him do his thing. And yes, he had his jump boots on, I didn’t want stitches. Then we went to the reverse half circle after he started watching himself at the second jump again. I also set up jumps to the left and right after a jump so he didn’t know which one to do next. Basically for me it was more of the I got this Dad! thing. Once I was getting him to focus and listen me things started going better. We also did a lot of strength training too. Some of his issue was balance due to a lack of strength. My mare that I’m going to restart in the Spring rushes jumps. She thinks because she’s lacking strength she needs speed.

[tbchick84]

I’m wondering if this might be more an anxiety issue for her. A young horse usually needs to be introduced to jumps set up in grid fashion to take all the guess work out of striding for the horse. To send a young horse over just a single fence could potentially create anxiety in that it’s just a single object out there by itself and forcing a very green horse to figure out a takeoff spot before she might be ready for that step.

You say you’ve already done poles with her. Maybe try using the poles and building off them to do the jumping. Take her over 4 trot poles a few times and then add a x-rail 9’ after that. Once she has that, add another x-rail 9’ after that. Each time she goes through the grid a few times confidently, add another fence using 9’ for bounces and 18’ for a one stride. The long chute design of the grid will give here something to focus on and the striding is predetermined for her. All you have to do is keep her straight.

[BeeHoney]

There are some good suggestions so far. If I were in your shoes I would branch out and try working with a jumper trainer for a few sessions to try to get some other ideas. I’m not criticizing your trainer. Horses can be very humbling and few trainers have ALL the answers for ALL the horses. If the horse is stuck and you and your trainer are both shaking your heads, I think it makes sense to head to a jumper trainer for a few lessons as a supplement to your current program.

Your horse is very green and clearly there are some big missing pieces. While I think that there are a lot of gymnastic exercises that could be helpful, I also think that there is a general rideability / basic training issue going on. There are also a myriad of other issues that could be contributing to the problem.

[Synthesis]

My standby, now, is:

• trot fence, if horse surges or tries to take over, halt quietly and represent. Once trotting in without changing pace (soft trot)
• stop quietly in a straight line before the corner. Repeat until horse anticipates and re-balances on their own. Then start alternating the halt and continuing quietly through the corner to halt quietly before the next corner.
• canter fence, if horse surges or tries to take over, halt quietly and then proceed in quiet trot. If trot changes pace, see above.
• Once cantering fence softly, stop quietly in a straight line before the corner. Repeat until horse anticipates and re-balances on their own. Then start alternating the halt and continuing quietly through the corner to halt quietly before the next corner.

Repeat doesn’t mean all in one day. Repeat means make a little progress each day and then continue the next. The process can take weeks or months. Who knows? That’s up to the horse. Jumping at this point needs to be no big deal. The horse can ‘opt’ to continue only by staying soft and working with you, Any other response = downward transition and chill out. No fighting, not rough, just “this works, this doesn’t”