Need Counter Canter Advice

[katie16]

Working on the counter canter. It’s not going horribly, but not too well either. Hoping for some advice.

Background: Given horse’s background, used only as a show hunter (and a few times as a field hunter too!), I’m thinking she hasn’t been asked to counter canter previously. Horse is very soft mouthed (but not extraordinarily or overly sensitive); goes in a rubber snaffle and is super easy to collect. Also tends to be more of a push ride than a forward ride. When changing leads, if too slow and without impulsion, horse will ‘pause and hop up’ during the lead change (this also happens if rider over uses hand). Rider has mastered keeping the (appropriate) pace and use of (or lack of) hand during the lead change and has them ironed out smoothly at this point.

Problem: Cannot hold the counter canter around the perimeter of the ring. Horse ‘backs up and hops off’ the lead heading into the corner.

What We’ve Done: We have tried (and mastered) trotting and cantering around the ring (and also a circle of half of the ring) with the counter bend. However, when we try to do it on the counter lead, we cannot get her to hold it. I am 99% sure it is not a physical pain issue. She’ll counter canter down the long side fine, but as soon as we hit the start of the corner she swaps. Maybe I should mention that she not only swaps off, but 'backs up and hops off the lead" just like she would/will do if you don’t ride the lead change well. She’s not plowing forward and falling unbalanced off the lead, she’s self-collecting (though the impulsion is also self-declining) and swapping. We’ve stayed calm and just started over each time this happens. We’ve also tried (quietly) pushing her forward a little while we’re still on the straight side, about four strides before we get to the corner, to help keep the pace. Doesn’t seem to be working. While we understand that it will be a long slow process, I feel like we aren’t making even a little progress. It’s not getting worse, but I don’t see it even a little better.

Any thoughts?

[Eclectic_Horseman]

Have you tried counter canter on a large circle? (20-30 meters) It sounds harder but it is not–the short end of the arena is actually harder because of the corners. It is a good exercise to see whether you, yourself, may be giving a conflicting aid (shifting weight, for example) coming into the corner. If you can do countercanter on a 20 m circle, then try it again on the rail, but don’t go deep into the corners, just ride the short side like a circle.

Until you can change the bend and flexion in the canter without changing the lead (this takes a lot of balance and suppleness) then you aren’t going to be able to do the corners in counter canter.

The only other advice that I have is to collect your canter and ride every single stride as though it were a canter depart.

Good luck.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

Rider may be trying to hard to “hold” her together with the hand and hold the bend with their reins. To kept the counter canter…you need to prevent her from moving her haunches in. So make sure the rider is very soft with the hands…let her get a bit quicker while she finds her balance and really just focuse on keeping the inside leg a bit behind the girth and make the turn a bit more shallow (come off the rail a bit and do not got deep into the corner). Counter canter does take strength on the horse’s part so it is hard for them at first. I have one horse who is a change machine…he really does not see the point in holding a counter canter. For him, I really have to ride each stride. He is a forward horse so by riding each stride it is more riding the position of his haunches and shoulders to keep him from changing while at the same time being VERY soft with my hands. I find really staying a bit off the rail helps both of us and gives me the room to keep his haunches out a bit for now.

[merrygoround]

In counter canter, it is absolutely necessary for the rider to maintain the seat and leg position of the lead they are on. Any shift of the seat or relaxation of the leg aids will allow the horse to fall apart or change. Maintaining the bend of the head and neck is initially quite important also. Later on counter bend on counter canter is a good exercise, but not initially.

If you have a marked arena to work in, it is helpful to initially simply curve out to the 1/4 line, and then back to the wall. As proficiency increases the curve can come deeper toward the center line, and then back to the wall, in a"ribbon".
When you are both comfortable with that, then it is time to attempt a full 20m 1/2 circle, returning to true canter across the diagonal.

[kcmel]

[QUOTE=merrygoround;7921178]

If you have a marked arena to work in, it is helpful to initially simply curve out to the 1/4 line, and then back to the wall. As proficiency increases the curve can come deeper toward the center line, and then back to the wall, in a"ribbon".
When you are both comfortable with that, then it is time to attempt a full 20m 1/2 circle, returning to true canter across the diagonal.[/QUOTE]

Yes! This how we started my previous horse learning the counter counter, and have just started using this on my new guy. Start very shallow and gradually increase how far off the track you come. I find it is a very useful exercise to improve the canter balance. Good luck!

[rb5007]

I’ve been working on this with my guy this week too. A couple of things I’ve found that have helped: as mentioned above, don’t go all the way to the corner, just go across the middle of the ring. Less anticipation. Also, don’t try to go all the way across - if you get across the first half of the turn holding the counter lead, turn into the correct lead and give lots of praise. Finally, I drop my inside stirrup as I am heading into the turn to help me hold the counter lead - this insures that my leg is in the right place and firmly holding the haunches and that my seat doesn’t move, inadvertently cuing the change. My 6 year old is getting it but you can tell he’s a bit confused - “Whaaaat??? My whole life you’ve been telling me to change, now you DON’T want me to?”

[RugBug]

She may just be confused that she’s supposed to keep the “wrong” lead in the turn. try to clover leaf exercise as a starting point to help her maintain the counter canter for a longer period.

Counter canter down the quarter line of the long side. when you get to the rail, turn towards the outside rail and make a circle on the correct lead. As you come out of the circle proceed on the counter lead down the quarter line of the short side. Repeat.

This exercise allows you to keep the counter lead for a longer period, without have to deal with turns at first. All turns are done on the correct lead.

[salymandar]

I have a few tricks that have worked for my horse who loves to change his leads in the corners. One thing I really like is shallow serpentines on the long sides while on the proper lead. This really helps unlock his shoulder and get him set up for counter canter.

The second thing that works is counter canter down the long sides, then halt or walk before she starts anticipating the change. Then I walk the short side and counter canter the long sides. Once she stops anticipating the change, then, I counter counter canter and try shave off the corner and V in toward the center of the short side and halt or walk, then a bit of a turn on the haunches to pick up the counter canter again and V off the second corner of the short side. Once she starts getting comfortable with that exercise, I will try to keep the counter canter through the entire short side, first by V-ing off the first corner, and then at the center of the short side, I press the entire body off my outside aids in as much of a canter pirouette as I can get to V off the second corner. As she gets more comfortable, then you can start lessening the severity of the V on the short sides. The trick, I have found is really trying to control the outside shoulder. Mine really likes to pop his out and then change.

Another thing that works is picking up the counter canter at the beginning of a long side, or the middle of the short side and then halfway up the long side, I press them off my outside leg and go across the diagonal and switch directions to the proper lead.

I try to be proactive in preventing the lead change and do a downward transition before they can execute it. If they are successful in actually getting the change, I do a downward transition and pick the counter canter back up as soon as I get them settled.

[katie16]

Thank you all! I really appreciate the input! Some good advice and new avenues to try makes me more optimistic.