My 6 week old foal is concerning me. Long story short, she had an umbilical infection at a few days old. Vet had me put her on SMZ and gave her three doses of Excede. (Excede was given day one, day 5, and then day 12) While on these drugs, she was on gastrogard as well as probiotics. Throughout, she was a healthy active foal.
About a week or so ago, she started on all night turnout after slowly increasing her hours of turnout since birth. She seemed fine to me but she was a tired foal. I thought maybe I should cut her turnout back and that she was too tired but Im the type to baby my horses a bit too much so I resisted the urge. I’ve done all night turnout with my other foals at this age and all have been fine. When the following evening rolls around, shouldn’t she be playful and ready to go out again? That’s how my others were in the past. But this filly just walks as slow as can be with no pep there and I feel like I can see in her eyes something is not right. Her temp is 101.2.
I’m wondering what you all would think of the possibility of ulcers. I thought we had covered our bases with the GG but maybe it was not given long enough. It was given 1/4 tube once a day for the duration of meds (three weeks) and then tapered off to every other day for another week or so. Or is it that she is a quiet subdued foal who requires more rest than most?
A couple other things I’ve noticed is that yes she does lie down out in the pasture to rest. And she was starting to eat grain with her mom a few weeks ago but barely touches it now. She used to run and play every night when turned out but she rarely does now. She also used to come to me and beg scratches and would play with my clothing in her mouth etc. and just be a general pain in the behind. But she is too quiet IMO.
I’ve called the vet and am waiting for a response but wanted to get your take on things because I know many of you are very experienced breeders and have seen it all. This is only my 5th foal and I just want to do the right thing. Thank you.
Does not sound normal to me. I would get the vet out to pull blood and start gastrogard again for at least a few days to see if that makes a difference.
I do have 2 tubes of GG left so I’m going to start her on it right away
I agree, the vet needs to do more bloodwork. Something is causing the lethargy and fever. I’m not a big proponent of treating for ulcers but I do believe in probiotics after a good vet check. My 3 foals have been laying out flat in the pasture but that after they have run like little demons for what seems like hours first.
Full grown horses suffer from ulcers. Foals DIE from ulcers.
Is 101.2 a fever in a foal?
[QUOTE=Happy;7112509]
Is 101.2 a fever in a foal?[/QUOTE]
Not in my opinion.
I’m not a big proponent of treating for ulcers
I hope no one ever relies on your opinion.
The drug Excede killed my yearling. He struggled for 3 weeks (8 days at an ICU facility, the remainder at my normal vet’s place), came home when he was finally on all oral meds and died the next day.
He only had 1 dose, but immediately had high fevers (104-105 range) and diarrhea. The necropsy showed a completely black colon. Despite all we had done he was never going to recover.
Excede was tested minimally on horses, and (if memory serves me correctly) none below the age of 2. Yes it’s convenient, that’s why I tried to use it. But PLEASE - if your foal will tolerate other meds, give those!!
Wanted to share my story with you so you knew the warning signs and what to look for. If anyone would like more details please feel free to PM me.
Wow. Sorry to hear that, JustEquit8. My vet has used Excede for various reasons on several of my horses over the years and we’ve not had issue with it. Except I’m not sure it’s not to blame at least somewhat for her ulcers (if that’s even the problem). She hasn’t had any meds for weeks so I can’t say that they’d be the cause.
Mine are raised on a large hayfield and 24/7 turnout and I rarely see them race around and playing. The odd biting face play they will do but the not the totally wild race they do after being locked in for a period of time. They might do this in the first week or two but it seems like once they are a month or two old they are pretty mellow and just amble around. I think the move a lot in a day though with the herd just walking and grazing so they don’t have all that pent up energy. Right now they stand in the loafing barn all day because there are minimal bugs in there and then they head out in the evenings to graze.
However, that being said you have to go by what you feel is right with your filly. If you feel she is “off” you should for sure have her checked out. Can you go back on her limited turnout and see if she goes back to her usual self within a few days? If so then you know it is just the increased turnout time that is possibly tiring her. I also would not allow her any grain until she is a min of 3 months of age.
[QUOTE=JustEqu none below the age of 2.[/QUOTE]
http://www.drugs.com/vet/excede-sterile-suspension-for-horses.html
“A total of 373 horses of various breeds, ranging in age from 4 months to 20 years, were included in the field study[IMG]http://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/icon1.png) safety analysis. Adverse reactions reported in horses treated with EXCEDE and the placebo control are summarized in Table 2.”
[h=2]Adverse Reaction[/h][h=2]Excede (n=278)[/h][h=2]Placebo (n=95)[/h]Diarrhea/Soft Stool
25 (9%)
7 (7%)
Injection Site Swelling
10 (4%)
1 (1%)
I did keep her in last night to see if she would be any more alert when she goes out today. The only thing is that she has already had 1/2 tube GG yesterday and 1/4 tube so her lack of turnout may not tell me much if the GG is starting to work in her ulcers. So my plan is to leave her in again tonight but resume all night turnout after that and see how she feels/acts.
[QUOTE=Happy;7112815]
I did keep her in last night to see if she would be any more alert when she goes out today. The only thing is that she has already had 1/2 tube GG yesterday and 1/4 tube so her lack of turnout may not tell me much if the GG is starting to work in her ulcers. So my plan is to leave her in again tonight but resume all night turnout after that and see how she feels/acts.[/QUOTE]
What is her current weight? GG is dosed by weight and 1/2 tube would be the correct dosage for a 600lb horse, much larger than an average 6 week old foal.
I would have her evaluated ASAP by a vet with more experience treating foals or at a teaching hospital if you have access to one. Her lethargy does not sound normal. I would not consider 101.2 a fever, but foals can be very ill without running a fever.
I don’t know her weight. Id guess 400 lbs maybe. She is a good-sized warmblood filly. Average bone though I’d say. I just gave the 1/2 dose the first time and now she gets 1/4 dose which Is what my vet had told me to do last time. Just following the same protocol. I’ve called the vet and am still waiting on a return call from them.
Lethargy in a foal is not normal. Sleeping when out in pasture is normal. The baby should follow a regular cycle of nursing, playing and resting. Foals have a naturally higher temp than adult horses, so I’d not be concerned by her temp.
Have you had the umbilicus ultrasounded to be sure that the infection is cleared? Done bloodwork? I would definitely do both with your filly. I lost a filly who was very subtly lethargic in 2005. She had an umbilical infection that was deep in the abdomen. I kept thinking that she was not quite right, and one day found her in seizures with a 109 temp. If I had followed up aggressively on the very subtle signs earlier on, I might not have lost her.
Good luck.
I think I’m confused… are you giving 1/2 dose or 1/2 tube? 1/4 dose is the standard preventative dose, but that would mean 1/4 tube only if you were treating a 1200lb horse. You might be able to pick up a weight tape from your vet or a local tack or feed store. Even though GG is widely used, it is not without side effects, especially in young foals.
[QUOTE=Home Again Farm;7113055]
Lethargy in a foal is not normal. Sleeping when out in pasture is normal. The baby should follow a regular cycle of nursing, playing and resting. Foals have a naturally higher temp than adult horses, so I’d not be concerned by her temp.
Have you had the umbilicus ultrasounded to be sure that the infection is cleared? Done bloodwork? I would definitely do both with your filly. I lost a filly who was very subtly lethargic in 2005. She had an umbilical infection that was deep in the abdomen. I kept thinking that she was not quite right, and one day found her in seizures with a 109 temp. If I had followed up aggressively on the very subtle signs earlier on, I might not have lost her.
Good luck.[/QUOTE]
^^^ This is excellent advice!
I’m sorry to be unclear. I meant it is 1/4 tube per day. Is this too much? This is what my vet had told me to do and also… I was wrong. I looked at the tubes and it is ulcer gard. Not gastrogard but I thought they were the same thing.
Also I was wondering… If it does turn out that she has ulcers, is it possible to put her on the omeprazole granules from Abler? (Blue pop rocks). A friend has leftovers she would be willing to give me after using them on her TB. She said they worked wonders but I didn’t know if any of you have had success with them with a foal
