Need help pricing a horse

[Justaguytrynalearn]

Hey. Ive never bought a horse. I am a training level rider working with a trainer, looking to buy a horse. Wondering if someone can help me with pricing a horse fairly.

17 hands. 14 years old. Mare. Registered RPSI. Very nice temperament. Showed third level three years ago. Scores high 60s. Current owner is very capable rider who has undergone health problems. Horse has not been ridden at 3rd for a few years. She was honest with me that this horse would likely not progress beyond 3rd unless in very capable professional training (problem with tempis).

What is a good ballpark number? Thank you in advance.

[Cheerfulmelody]

At that age if mare hasn’t been ridden at her highest level in awhile she starts to have appeal as a broodmare if bred decently. Horse market has softened a bit and for a horse that is of that age and owner feels there is a likely cap to their ability I would say a sub 30k? I have seen some with thqt level of training coming back from being broodmares that are sub 15k. Breeding and any known health issues/results of PPE and quirks of course could change that. That’s a nice big size which is awesome for some riders and not appealing to others.

[Lusoluv]

Best to ask your trainer since they should know the horse market and prices in your area. I agree that price should be below $30k, assuming horse hasn’t been in a program due to owner’s health. I’d also do a thorough PPE as tempi issues could be health related.

[OverandOnward]

What are your goals with this horse? I think the real question is what the market is for a horse that meets your goals. And where this mare fits in that market – high end; low end; middle.

If you are buying intending to stay comfortably at 2nd level, that is one thing. If you want to get her back to 3rd and show competitively at that level, that could be another.

If you can say honestly to the seller “I would not be buying her as a 3rd level horse, because at her age and the time since her last competition at that level, I can’t count on that”, it might soften the sellers’ expectations.

Especially if there are no other prospective buyers wanting her for more. If other people are interested in her as a legit 3rd level horse, that is a different price picture.

Realistic expectations have a great deal to do with what a horse is worth to you, as well as to the seller. What you want to do with the horse tells you what price market you may be in. What else you can realistically buy for the same price. How those other options compare to this one.

Any horse is worth what someone will pay for it. If no one else is as interested as you are, that gives you more leverage over what you think she is worth, for your own riding goals. That is, how much you are willing to offer, in comparison with your other choices. And what you are not willing to pay to have this particular horse, because you could get more for that higher price.

Remembering that at her age, every subsequent sale may be for less than the last one. Unless she starts setting the world on fire in the show ring.

I hope that makes sense.

[poltroon]

Some things to think about:

• Have a clear conversation with the trainer about your goals and what budget is needed to reach them.
• Try at least two other horses that are for sale that could be a good fit.
• At 14, not currently showing at 3rd level, she may not be able to do 3rd level any longer, or not with you, or not with you when you are ready to move up in a couple of years. She might still be a good horse for you! Just have this in mind.
• Always vet the horse and if there are findings, that may indicate a lower value for the horse. For example, if there are findings that suggest she won’t be able to maintain clean single flying changes now or much longer, but you’re still interested in first and second level, a price reduction may be in order.
• Don’t let anyone rush you if you don’t feel sure and confident. There’s pretty much always another horse.
• A good schoolmaster is amazing! If the mare is well trained and is a good match for you, she will teach you so much. The price of a horse like this is tuition, not an investment. You won’t be able to sell her for what you paid and her future value will decline - but that’s okay, and even ideal in a first horse.
• Questions I’d ask are: do you feel safe on this horse? Does the horse need a regular pro ride to stay ridable for you? Will you have fun?

If this horse is in your trainer’s barn, maybe ask around amongst the barn mates about her, see what they say.

[Cheerfulmelody]

Funny thing just saw an ad on one of my FB groups for a 14 year old RPSI mare that is said to be schooling all of 3rd level. Only 15.1 though and they have her price listed at 25k on California. So that is a pretty good comp to me though show record actually at 3rd would maybe sweeten the price for the seller a bit more.

[Zevida]

I’d say that a SAFE 17 hand horse that could get a rider their bronze with just a bit of tune up could be anywhere from $30-50k depending on the location and vetting results.

[Zevida]

@poltroon

The price of a horse like this is tuition, not an investment.

I love this!

[Zonderpaard]

Lots of sound advice here already. I’d just add that what has been going on in the three years since she was last shown matters for you as a potential buyer too. There’s a big difference between hanging out in the field for three years and getting ridden at at WTC a few days a week by a capable rider. You could be looking at an on ramp with her that will take time and $ (her feet, her fitness, saddle fit, etc etc). May be well worth it if she’s right for you of course, but it’s a consideration.

[outerbanks77]

@Zonderpaard

I’d just add that what has been going on in the three years since she was last shown matters for you as a potential buyer too.

Yes, I was going to add that. If she’s been doing at least consistent first level work, she could fitted back up more quickly. If she’s been standing around doing nothing, factor in a fair bit of time for conditioning, and any other deferred maintenance (i.e. does she need injections, chiro, etc. as she comes back to work?).

I agree that $30K ish seems like a good ballpark, adjusted up or down with the specific considerations mentioned here. However, if she is sound, and in good enough shape that she could get tuned up and go get someone their bronze in a couple months, I do wonder why that is not being done (with a trainer, not the ailing owner of course), since that would probably make her more of a $50K horse.

[SpicyPRE]

I am curious if you are looking to purchase this horse or sell this horse? If purchase, why are you wanting to establish a price for the horse? In my opinion, the seller needs to be the one to establish the price. I personally would never be the one to say someone else’s horse is worth X.

[Justaguytrynalearn]

Thank you everyone for your input. My reason for asking is because someone like me could easily be “hosed”. I realize horses are not cars, but with cars we have edmunds.com. And nothing similar exists for horses.

[poltroon]

@Justaguytrynalearn

Thank you everyone for your input. My reason for asking is because someone like me could easily be “hosed”. I realize horses are not cars, but with cars we have edmunds.com. And nothing similar exists for horses.

Absolutely!

• Make sure it’s a horse you enjoy riding today. Potential is the most expensive thing in horses, but the future is always uncertain.
• Do the full vet check. Better to pay that vet bill before you buy the horse than after.
• Always assume the money you spend on a horse is gone forever.
• Include in your budget any commissions you owe (ask directly!) and also allow budget for a new saddle.
• Don’t just buy the horse because it seems convenient because it’s in the barn or whatever.
• Knowing the history is good and it’s a plus that the owner is honest about the horse having hit her max.
• When you buy a horse, there’s often a reverse honeymoon. The horse was great when you tried it and then you bring it home and what have I done? If there’s an opportunity for a short term trial/lease that is ideal. But give the horse time to adapt and usually you can get back to the goodness.
• Definitely give yourself a compare and contrast so you are choosing between horses and not “this horse or not having a horse.”

Good luck!

[Long_Time_Lurker]

A show record with scores in the upper sixties at 3rd level mean that even if the horse has not done it recently and may not score quite as well in the future or with a less experienced rider, the horse is a legitimate “bronze medal horse” for someone. That makes her worth more than she would be if she had those same scores at second level, or low sixties scores at third. Whether or not you yourself have bronze medal ambitions.

[Justaguytrynalearn]

Thank you. Actually, I looked closer. 1st and 2nd were high sixties. Third was 60-61.

[OverandOnward]

OP, I realize you are not getting much in the way of price numbers in this thread.

I hope what you are getting is much more valuable. Don’t focus on just this one mare. Focus on several candidates that would suit your short-term and long-term goals, including this mare. And compare them.

The prices being asked for those candidates will help you get more of a feel for what is fair for you right now.

And as has been said, you do need a professional trainer active in your area and location of interest to help you work through this. A reputable and honest one.

You are right to be concerned about getting “hosed.” All of this advice should help to avoid that.

Another consideration is to avoid buying for the time being, and lease instead. Horse ownership is such a gigantic and expensive responsibility. And it can be hard to get out from under, as horses don’t always sell to our own convenience.

A less long-term solution than buying might be better, as you learn more about the local market. Something that can honestly take a year or two.

[outerbanks77]

@Justaguytrynalearn

Thank you. Actually, I looked closer. 1st and 2nd were high sixties. Third was 60-61.

In the realm of dressage scores for ammies, the chasm between high sixties and just squeaking out a 60 is huge. Could be extenuating circumstances, like rider’s first time at the level, and they only went out a few times at 3rd, or it could mean the mare was really topping out at 2nd. Which, for a nice WB seems odd if physical issues aren’t in play.

You might get more bang for your buck looking at non-WBs if you currently just need a lower-level horse.

[Long_Time_Lurker]

Ok then, you probably won’t be bidding against someone who just needs their third level scores to get their bronze this year since 60-61 five years ago is not a sure thing to repeat, or someone who has a young student who is trying for the junior team and needs mid to high sixties at the equivalent to third level. If the horse is serviceably sound, pleasant to ride and to handle and seems to suit you she may be a good fit as a first dressage horse. Enough horse to learn from for the foreseeable future but not too much horse for someone who is currently a training level rider. I will throw out a number that I think is a reasonable offer for a horse that used to be a competitive first/second level horse and a marginal third level horse but it has been a while. If I wanted her I would offer $25,000. And be prepared to compromise by maybe coming up to $30,000 including any commission to your trainer. I would not pay more as I think I could find comparable horses in that range. If she has significant health or soundness risks, any significant bad habits or behavior issues, or is just unpleasant to ride or handle (lays back her ears when being brushed, has a jackhammer trot that hurts your back to sit, has to be tranquilized for the farrier or to trailer, etc.) she would be harder to sell and therefore worth less than that amount to me. Under $20,000. How much under depends on how many red flags and how severe the issue(s). Honestly I personally would probably not be interested in an unpleasant horse unless she was a TON of fun to ride, and would not recommend one as a first horse. But such a horse can be a bargain for someone who is willing to compromise and confident in handling those issues.