I am retraining my current lease horse - a 15H QH, from a Western Pleasure/reining background - to dressage & hunters. He was out to pasture last year and mostly sat in a stall for 2 years before that. After a light 30 days to get fit again, we have been in training since Sept.
Horse has made good progress with increasing pace & quality of trot and canter. Took a bit, but he is understanding forward much better at those gaits. He can still get behind the leg, but we are steadily making progress.
The walk is a different story. His walk with any kind of contact is awful - slow, wiggly, not straight. He will get round and stay pretty steady with the contact, but I cannot get forward at the walk. Even on a long rein, forward at the walk is a challenge. He overcorrects with even light rein and/or leg aids and then we have to work on straightness again. There is so much work on straightness, it is a challenge to find the right moments to work on forward.
Our walk/trot transitions are THE WORST. Head gets thrown up with even a light aid, but a change of gait happens less than 50% of time. I have tried everything I can think of and researched videos on YouTube. Light, med, heavy aid. Tiny spurs, medium spurs, crop, no crop/spurs at all. Tried to keep myself as loose as possible. I strive to be light-handed and use my lightest aid possible, but it often seems like the strong aid is the only thing he responds to.
Conformationally, horse is narrow and has asymmetrical shoulders. My Grand Prix level trainer says his invertedness is the hardest thing we are working against. After 3 months, I am really frustrated we have made little progress.
Suggestions for how to approach this problem differently, either from a training or mindset perspective, are greatly appreciated. I really like this little horse and want to be the best partner I can for him.
How is he on the trail? Just going somewhere is the easiest way for a horse to learn that his walk is supposed to be a useful gait when he has previously been trained otherwise.
My gelding has a TOTALLY different background but is still a wiggly worm at the walk. We have to get forward or we canât get straight - he has to have a direction for the energy. Remember that rhythm is the first thing on the training scale, and together with suppleness means purity of gaits and relaxation to start with. Your horse simply has to learn to walk forward like a horse, rather than the stilted gaits he was taught are correct for western, and doesnât currently really know thatâs an option.
This is a horse who wasnât trained to move properly according to dressage standards, and on top of that doesnât have muscles developed for how he WAS taught to move. Thatâs going to make every transition harder for now. Using slight riding in position (or shoulder fore) will help get him stepping up under himself correctly, and heâll still head toss for a bit as he develops the muscles and ability to do it. Trying to hold his head down would only make things worse - you have to teach him how to use his body properly, when he was taught âgoodâ was using it counter to how you want him using it now.
He sounds like a sweet horse that wants to please - no wonder you like him so much. I agree with Netg - the poor fellow probably doesnât really know how to move freely. Have you observed him moving, on his own, in his paddock or pasture? How is his walk when he is on his own? He may have a little anxiety with a rider as Iâve seen many western pleasure riders jerk, jerk jerk with their hands to âslow the horse downâ and horses that are eager to please are also susceptible to anxiety. . .
For building topline and encouraging looseness, I like longeing over cavalleti a bit. It might help with the relaxation and help him build a little strength. Iâm sure others will have additional thoughts to share as well. Best wishes, and I think your horse is lucky to have such a thoughtful rider.
Straight comes later in the training scale. And Iâd forget contact for a bit until you get forward. Forward and rhythm are always first. On a loose rein, try tapping with a whip, increasingly more firmly (this is NOT a punishment, you are just trying to get him to understand his new job) until you get a forward response. Immediately stop tapping the second you get any forward response and GO with it. Doesnât matter if itâs walk trot or canter. Just get a forward response. Put a neck rein on him if you think youâll get left behind. Bring him back to walk again. Do it again. Only when forward is well established should you even think about contact or straightness. Plenty of time for that later!
For a horse whoâs done nothing for the past 3 years, I think this is quite good and enough so far.
You seem to be expecting quite a bit from this poor fellow. Heâs done nothing for 3 years, there really is no point in getting upsetâŠ
First, realize that a horse needs time to develop. Dressage or any other disciplines take time to master. Heâs at 6 months of training with you; who I assume is not a professional. It is great that you take lessons, but you clearly are still learning a lot and need lessons too. So obviously, the ââback to workââ and 'âgoing up the levelâ'will be slower.
You bought a Western pleasure horse, an unfit one, with conformational challenges, it is a lot to expect from it to become a dressage and hunter superstar in just about 6 months.
Give your horse a chance to rebuild new muscles, forget a bit about its western past and enjoy the journey quietly.
The walk is a different story. His walk with any kind of contact is awful - slow, wiggly, not straight. He will get round and stay pretty steady with the contact, but I cannot get forward at the walk. Even on a long rein, forward at the walk is a challenge. He overcorrects with even light rein and/or leg aids and then we have to work on straightness again. There is so much work on straightness, it is a challenge to find the right moments to work on forward.
The walk is the most difficult gait to work at. I wouldnât concentrate on that for now, especially with a horse like yours.
Actually, I wouldnât stress at all and do more of the free walk.
If I were you, I would do short work periods at the walk only after trot or canter transitions.
Also, jumping and ground poles would be helpful to gain some sort of forwardness at trot and canter.
Our walk/trot transitions are THE WORST. Head gets thrown up with even a light aid, but a change of gait happens less than 50% of time. I have tried everything I can think of and researched videos on YouTube. Light, med, heavy aid. Tiny spurs, medium spurs, crop, no crop/spurs at all. Tried to keep myself as loose as possible. I strive to be light-handed and use my lightest aid possible, but it often seems like the strong aid is the only thing he responds to.
Do what your GP trainer says.
Iâm sure your trainer told you what to do. Concentrate on that only. Your trainer is overqualified for that and you should trust his/her opinion.
Trying to master transitions when the horse is behind the leg and doesnât truly accept the contact is impossible.
Your horse is throwing its head up because you donât have a supple contact with its mouth. Despite being light, you are probably just stiff in your elbow or somewhere else. Talk with your trainer on how to be more supple and following instead while coordinating your leg and seat aids. It takes time to master this as well, and thatâs on your part!
Conformationally, horse is narrow and has asymmetrical shoulders. My Grand Prix level trainer says his invertedness is the hardest thing we are working against. After 3 months, I am really frustrated we have made little progress.
Suggestions for how to approach this problem differently, either from a training or mindset perspective, are greatly appreciated. I really like this little horse and want to be the best partner I can for him.
You really need to change your mindset and not be frustrated. Learn from this. Your horse is throwing problems at you that you need to solve. See this as a way to improve your riding and your tool box. Itâs YOU who needs to improve your riding skills, horse just follows your instructions.
Again, you bought a horse that wasnât purposely bred and never trained for dressage and hunter⊠It is not your horseâs fault if it doesnât fit your schedule.
Aaaah all the things I am working on and I am working on them on a horse that has been in work for about 2 years.
First put on lunge and teach them what the word walk, trot, halt and canter mean. Walk no side reins. Trot and Canter eventually with side reins. If you donât know how get help. Side reins do not kill and maim horses. Incompetent people using side reins maim and kill horses.
In the saddle work on free walk and picking up the reins. The walk should not change at all. If it does you have trained him to do this. Retraining is harder than training. So work on free walk and picking up the reins and nothing changing. The steps donât get shorter, the horse doesnât wiggle, the head doesnât get thrown. You may have to kick and use a whip in the beginning.
With the contact you now have from that walk towards a fence. At the fence drop your weight and say halt. He will have to halt anyway because of the fence in front. From now on your halt transittion is done with your seat not the reins.
Walk trot is also done with your seat. Now that he knows how to walk and trot on the lunge with you saying trot. If he worse comes to the worst you should be lunging in side reins. Put a rider on with no reins. Ask for halt trot with your seat, which actually means up and forward with your tummy and say trot. He knows this anyway from being lunged. The lunger can also ask for the trot transition. Trot to halt transitions with dropping your seat as remember no walking in side reins.
Asking for contact at the walk, particularly asking for round, is a asking bit much for a horse in work since Sept. It involves asking the horse to actively reach through, under the following seat of an active rider, with a following hand. If the horse is at all inclined to fall behind the leg, he will wobble.
At this point, youâd get a better response asking for a forward active walk, on a free rein.
3 months isnât very long at all to build muscle, especially given the horse has been out of work for so long and was a WP horse before that, so he needs to learn a whole new way of using his body. When I was horse shopping we tried two horses at one farm. Both were quite inverted, but one was green and the other was a trained western horse with some charro training. My trainer remarked that either would be a project but the older charro horse would be much more difficult because you had to work against the previous training.
Focus on going forward before trying to get straight. The suggestion to do lots of trail riding is great, but if you donât have access to trails, can you ride around the outside of the ring or around the property some to get the feel of it?
A horse that was started as a western horse is going to really really struggle with this.
To give you a bit of perspective, I bought my now 11 yr old AQHA when he was 4. He had (Iâm guessing) been started as a 2yr old for the futurity, flunked out immediately (thankfully for him as life is much less stressful with me) and was switched to dressage. I bought him after he had like 6 mos dressage training.
Heâs 11 now, Iâve shown him through 2nd level. He still has serious issues with walking forward on contact and upward transitions with contact. So thatâs like 7 years working on this.
Take a step back and realize what you are dealing with here.
They are essentially taught to walk slowly and are punished for going forward into contact. Essentially taught never to touch the bit. You are asking for the opposite and that is a major change. Depending on how the horse was handled he may be absolutely terrified of the bit. Some of these horses are absolutely brutalized with the bridle.
Slow this way, way down. Be happy with small bits of progress and significantly adjust your expectations. You are asking for him to completely rethink what he is doing and he may well be afraid of the bridle.
Thanks everyone! Sounds like the consensus is to focus on a nice forward walk on a loose rein for now. Horse does have a nice overstep at a free walk. On the trail his walk is pretty slow, but I know itâs in there to get him to open up, be more relaxed/swingy at the walk.
Perhaps my trainerâs area of focus (frame/straightness) is whatâs throwing me off⊠I think we need to find a balance of keeping horse from getting too inverted without being too demanding.
To answer above: Yes, I am lunging in side reins a few times a week to help horse understand contact, forward, and bend.
Should I just ignore the ugly walk/trot transitions for now?
The walk might be plain boreing for him, I would first try and do different things at a walk like going over poles circles or you could try some trail obstacles.
When i cue my horse I shorten my inside rein and then my outside rein, by that time heâll already be trotting because I before I do my trot cue I always shorten inside then outside. Go canter I shorten outside and then inside and heâll canter without and other cue. Before he did that so well my cue was cluck, give rein, close hip, squeeze. What are you using for yours???
If your trainer is so focused on frame and straightness, either we are not getting the whole story or they are not as All That as they might seem. Frame will come after forward and rhythm. Frame without forward isnât anything but a headset and has nothing to do with dressage.
Fitness is probably at least part of the issue. It is a lot easier for a horse to support itâs head with the under muscle of its neck than carrying itself over the top. Especially when the horse is unfit, which yours is after 3 years off and a few months of work. You mention that your horses shoulders are asymmetrical. That might be due to lack of fit, but it could be a pain issue. You would do well to have a good lameness vet give him a once over to make sure heâs feeling good. When you add the weight of a person to a horsesâ undeveloped back there is no muscle there to carry the extra weight. The weight is born by the spine and that can cause soreness that could definitely cause these issues. Even if there is no active injury a good bodyworker can go a long way. Heâs at least going to be sore and tight from having a job again. A little massage or chiro can keep him feeling good enough to try harder. I know Iâm not at my best when Iâm just getting back into a gym routine. I could use a massage my self for that matter!
But most of all donât rush it. It takes for-flipping-ever to develop proper musculature, especially in a horse that was trained to do something so different. Thatâs really the whole point of dressage, just to build those muscles. Enjoy the process.
You might find point to point exercises useful for his walk. Pick a point and ride straight towards it, asking him to march as best he can. When you get to your point halt, pick another point and march. This can help the horse understand going forward and straight as he is going to a point and not just round the ring.
Walk poles set just a tiny bit longer than his offered stride length can help him learn to stretch his step with a little energy. Beware setting them too long as that will just make his step shorter as he puts his foot down before the pole.
Yes, let the transitions be ugly for now. Right now the result of your aids is more important. He must trot when you ask for trot. Half the time responses isnât good enough to start shaping the transition. You have to have it before you can shape it.
Remember that all you want today is better. Not better than yesterday, but better than you started today. Practice straight and forward point to point. Look for a better march, which gives better straightness, as you ride to each point. Look for a prompter response to a better trot each time you ask for trot. Just make each thing a little better and you will find the little better focus changes as he gets better. Today itâs prompt trot transitions. As that gets better you ask for a better trot from the transition. Down the road you ask for a rounder transition building from his hind end stepping more under his body. Just a little better, not perfection, but always a little better.
Could you expand on this a bit? What language/concepts is your trainer using that fall under this âframeâ category. Unfortunately, one of the challenges with sharing things online is that everyone brings a different vocabulary to the table. it is a lot like trying to guess what someone means by âblueâ (navy, indigo, sky blue?). Having some more information about how your trainer is explaining and defining contact would be really helpful.
Was thrilled with my ride last night! I focused on forward walk on long rein. Stopped worrying about ugly walk/trot transitions and just worked on forward response instead. I rode with tiny spurs and whip. Only needed to tap-tap a few times and I never had to use a strong leg aid. Horse and I both felt light and loose. I could really focus on keeping my hips loose when I wasnât obsessing about straightness and where my horseâs head was at. Horse got a lot of âGood Boysâ when he gave me an immediate response. There were plenty of moments where we had steady contact and good inside leg-outside rein connection at all gaits.
Now I get to have an awkward conversation with my trainer that we need to back off and take a slightly different approach. :o Iâm not saying anything weâve been working on in lessons has been âwrongâ, but a case of too much too soon for the little dude.
With regard to questions of frame, being on the bit, round, etc - pictures might illustrate best:
The goal for both trainer and me is a long stretchy relaxed frame right now - she wants a little more tuck to the head and slightly lower poll, which seems to be above horseâs fitness & understanding level right now (and where he becomes too stiff/blocked up).
