Need help with a horse that cribs

[horsegirl0317]

My horse is a 4 year old OTTB that cribs like it is no one’s business. I have owned him since he was 3 and he has been cribbing since the moment I got him. He is a beautiful grey, quiet as can be, super friendly around others, and flats and jumps with no issues. His only vice is his cribbing.

We have moved his field so that he is in a field surrounded by electric wiring, but he walks right through it as if he were a cow and escapes. We have turned the voltage up so high it has left marks on him, yet he still walks through it and escapes the field as though he can’t feel it. If we put him out where the fencing is wood, he destroys it. He is turned out with one other horse but his field is the farthest away from the barn.

Another issue is he is somewhat skinny due to the amount of cribbing he is doing. If we put him outside with a muzzle, we fear that he will continue to lose weight instead of gain it.

We have even adjusted his feed, given him a slow feeding hay net, two salt licks, and a ball; none of which seem to please him like the cribbing does. He’s been on supplements to see if that would alleviate some of the cribbing as well which also did not work. He wears a collar all of the time but he cribs through that as well (he’s been through four of them). He doesn’t try to take the collar’s off, he just ignores them.

This horse is the calmest and most fearless horse I’ve ever seen in my life and I don’t want to lose him due to the property damage he is inflicting on my barn. Please leave advice below!!!

[beowulf]

Voltage so high it has left marks on him?

Cribbing is a stereotypy. If you don’t know what that is, in laymen’s terms, it’s a coping mechanism.

The thing about these stereotypies, is that they “flare up” in times of duress. Find out what is stressing the horse. Cribbing is a stress-related behavior. In my experience managing boarding barns, cribbing usually came down to one of two things: isolation, or ulcers… and the two seem to be related. Horses don’t like being alone, they stress, they go off their feed, they get ulcers…

Breaking the fence, escaping - is he escaping so he can get in with other horses? Sounds like he is turned out alone? Horses are herd animals; cribbers especially do well in herd settings. See if you can find him a quiet herd situation close to the barn.

Is his turnout far from the barn, away from other horses, lack of grass?

Ulcers – if he cribs… he very likely has ulcers. This is just an anecdote, but no cribber client at any of the barns I’ve worked with have ever scoped clean. If they crib, I assume they have ulcers. Nexium and a change of management will help.

The only thing I have seen cure cribbing in a dedicated cribber is a thorough overhaul of management. The cribbing/stereotypy manifestation is usually a signal that something is “not quite right” for the horse.

For most, you’ll find that stalling, while convenient and necessary in most boarding situations, tends to bring out the most cribbing behaviors in the horse. Cribbers will do most of their cribbing while stalled, in my experience. I would strongly suggest trying to get as little stall time as possible, and make sure there is always hay in front of the horse while they are stalled. Even a stall with a tiny run-out overnight is much more ideal than standing in a 12x12 box for 11 hours a day.

24/7 turnout in a herd setting goes a very long way in “curing” cribbing. They won’t crib while out, but once you change the management so they are stalled again (like at a show) the cribbing returns. Stereotypies do alter neural pathways, in other words, the learned behavior will always be there and they will almost always default to it in times of stress.

[Bluey]

@beowulf

Voltage so high it has left marks on him?

Cribbing is a stereotypy. If you don’t know what that is, in laymen’s terms, it’s a coping mechanism.

The thing about these stereotypies, is that they “flare up” in times of duress. Find out what is stressing the horse. Cribbing is a stress-related behavior. In my experience managing boarding barns, cribbing usually came down to one of two things: isolation, or ulcers… and the two seem to be related. Horses don’t like being alone, they stress, they go off their feed, they get ulcers…

Breaking the fence, escaping - is he escaping so he can get in with other horses? Sounds like he is turned out alone? Horses are herd animals; cribbers especially do well in herd settings. See if you can find him a quiet herd situation close to the barn.

Is his turnout far from the barn, away from other horses, lack of grass?

Ulcers – if he cribs… he very likely has ulcers. This is just an anecdote, but no cribber client at any of the barns I’ve worked with have ever scoped clean. If they crib, I assume they have ulcers. Nexium and a change of management will help.

The only thing I have seen cure cribbing in a dedicated cribber is a thorough overhaul of management. The cribbing/stereotypy manifestation is usually a signal that something is “not quite right” for the horse.

For most, you’ll find that stalling, while convenient and necessary in most boarding situations, tends to bring out the most cribbing behaviors in the horse. Cribbers will do most of their cribbing while stalled, in my experience. I would strongly suggest trying to get as little stall time as possible, and make sure there is always hay in front of the horse while they are stalled. Even a stall with a tiny run-out overnight is much more ideal than standing in a 12x12 box for 11 hours a day.

24/7 turnout in a herd setting goes a very long way in “curing” cribbing. They won’t crib while out, but once you change the management so they are stalled again (like at a show) the cribbing returns. Stereotypies do alter neural pathways, in other words, the learned behavior will always be there and they will almost always default to it in times of stress.

Sure, but also consider those that just crib no matter what.
There have been broodmares that stood there in miles long pastures with the most palatable grasses, turned out with congenial companions, cribbing on a fence post practically all day, no matter what else anyone tried.

Cribbing is an obsessive/compulsive behavior first, that can be managed at times if the environment is stressing, other times, not so much.

Long ago our riding center had a four year old horse start cribbing that never had before.
The university vet school tried a new light surgery on him, a small cut and some nerves were snipped high up under his neck and he came back not cribbing any more.

Later I read where those surgeries didn’t last but a few years, but at least during those years the horses were not cribbing.

I wonder if they still go there today?

[beowulf]

@Bluey

Sure, but also consider those that just crib no matter what.
There have been broodmares that stood there in miles long pastures with the most palatable grasses, turned out with congenial companions, cribbing on a fence post practically all day, no matter what else anyone tried.

Cribbing is an obsessive/compulsive behavior first, that can be managed at times if the environment is stressing, other times, not so much.

The last line of my post, explains exactly why those broodmares would crib when things seemed perfect, all else equal:

Stereotypies do alter neural pathways, in other words, the learned behavior will always be there and they will almost always default to it in times of stress.

A stereotypy developing means that somewhere, a need was not met.

[Bluey]

@beowulf

The last line of my post, explains exactly why those broodmares would crib when things seemed perfect, all else equal:

A stereotypy developing means that somewhere, a need was not met.

My point was, not always, some just crib, that is their need.
Also runs in families, has an inheritable component to it.
Many horses under the same conditions, only the rare one will develop one of those behaviors.
Some are light cribbers you can manage, others, not so much.

[beowulf]

@Bluey

My point was, not always, some just crib, that is their need, also runs in families, has an inheritable component to it.

“Some just crib” because a need in their management was not met. It is not a spontaneous behavior that starts out of nowhere. It is definitely inheritable in the sense a horse either has the propensity to develop cribbing, or it doesn’t.

What happens with stereotypies, is that they alter the neural pathways in the brain. Which means that the coping mechanism becomes their default behavior, especially in times of stress.The horse defaults to this learned behavior because these ‘new’ (coping) neural pathways have “overwritten” the normal/old ones – to put it as unscientifically and simply as possible, it creates a new roadmap in their brain for processing information. This means it doesn’t just become a habit; it becomes a behavioral response to stimulus.

Some reasons a broodmares crib. They’re uncomfortable. They’re stressed. They’re stalled. They might want to be back in the barn. They are turned out alone/isolated and want company. They are hungry. They are bored. They hurt somewhere unrelated to pregnancy.

Just because a horse is out on grass for 8 hours a day, does not mean all their needs are met. YMMV.

[Bluey]

@beowulf

“Some just crib” because a need in their management was not met. It is not a spontaneous behavior that starts out of nowhere. It is definitely inheritable in the sense a horse either has the propensity to develop cribbing, or it doesn’t.

What happens with stereotypies, is that they alter the neural pathways in the brain. Which means that the coping mechanism becomes their default behavior, especially in times of stress.The horse defaults to this learned behavior because these ‘new’ (coping) neural pathways have “overwritten” the normal/old ones – to put it as unscientifically and simply as possible, it creates a new roadmap in their brain for processing information. This means it doesn’t just become a habit; it becomes a behavioral response to stimulus.

Some reasons a broodmares crib. They’re uncomfortable. They’re stressed. They’re stalled. They might want to be back in the barn. They are turned out alone/isolated and want company. They are hungry. They are bored. They hurt somewhere unrelated to pregnancy.

Just because a horse is out on grass for 8 hours a day, does not mean all their needs are met. YMMV.

Maybe so for some, others, cribbing is what soothes them best with nothing stressing them.

This poster has two similar threads going, one on the Farm forum.

Good to give all kinds of possibilities.
Not good to be dismissive as such behaviors only being about bad management when it is not always that with cribbers.

[Haylter]

Ssssoooo here’s a thought HOT WIRE INSIDE THE WOOD or something like snow fencing out side the hot wire so it creates a solid visual.

[horsegirl0317]

Thank you both for your replies, but I can assure you that my horse is not unhappy in anyway. He is turned out with his best friend yet still wants to escape. I feel as though he gets bored which is the reason for his cribbing. He is a happy horse. I just need solutions for his cribbing.

[beowulf]

@Bluey

Maybe so for some, others, cribbing is what soothes them best with nothing stressing them.

This poster has two similar threads going, one on the Farm forum.

Good to give all kinds of possibilities.
Not good to be dismissive as such behaviors only being about bad management when it is not always that with cribbers.

I’m not trying to be dismissive or call it bad management. I was trying to point out that cribbing is a complex behavior with roots in a lack of a need being met (not synonymous with “bad management”), with a fascinating long-term effect on the horse, and that it is not always well-understood by owners or barn managers.

Most barn managers think that cribbing is something annoying to be dealt with, not something to be solved or looked into.

OP, if you are refusing to even look into your horse’s reasons for cribbing, what was the point of this thread? There is no magical solution for cribbing besides major management overhaul.

[DunByMistake]

If he’s underweight and cribs, I’d bet my farm on ulcers. Look up the thread on Nexium for ulcers and experiment with treatment.

Equitation Science International just posted a video this week on their Facebook about cribbing. I would suggest watching it. It is very informative on why horses start cribbing and why it’s so difficult to get them to stop. Andrew McLean also presents thinking about cribbing in a very different way than most horse people.

Personally, I would take the collar off. Your horse is stressed and that is how he deals with it. If you don’t like it, you need to figure out what’s bothering him and change his living situation. Stopping him from cribbing with the collar is not going to change his behaviour.

[Bluey]

@horsegirl0317

Thank you both for your replies, but I can assure you that my horse is not unhappy in anyway. He is turned out with his best friend yet still wants to escape. I feel as though he gets bored which is the reason for his cribbing. He is a happy horse. I just need solutions for his cribbing.

You are right there, while he is busy with whatever you both do, he will not be cribbing then.

Horses crib because it is an obsessive/compulsive behavior and those are, by definition, obsessive and compulsive.

As long as we can manage their time and environment so they don’t crib but have other to to, they generally won’t have a chance to obsess.

Then, some, even under the best situation, will still choose their compulsion over most any other, even eating.

All that has been offered may help control those behaviors, but only so far, depending on the horse.

At least now you may have some more ideas to see if some help.
If you have any success, let us know, so others may try whatever worked for you.

[firefoot]

I have heard that cribbing is genetic, on top of being hugely compulsive. So that really compounds the destruction and issues of trying to get it to stop. Be prepared for him to never stop cribbing, even if he slows down.

But to echo what others are saying, something is stressing the horse out, even if it’s something not offensive to others. It’s not you, it’s him, but it’s up to you to address it. If it were my horse, I would still try to let him crib on something. I wouldn’t want him cribbing my fence or stall down, but if he were that determined, I’d take his collar off and give him a block to crib on while I tried to figure out how to solve it, or at least lessen it.

Definitely look into stomach things. Even if he doesn’t have ulcers, trying papaya juice or good probiotics might help. Maybe some magnesium or a calming supplement. Is he better in the stall than in the field? Maybe he wants more stall time. I knew one that hated more than a few hours turnout and would crib the fences down but in the stall, you’d never know he was a cribber.

[danacat]

@horsegirl0317

He is a happy horse. I just need solutions for his cribbing.

I have two cribbers now and have had cribbers in the past – all happy horses, none stressed out + no ulcers. IME there is no ‘solution’ to stopping it. Cribbers crib and will always crib. ”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹

I just go with the flow – provide dedicated cribbing spots – no collars.

My mare who cribs only does so on occasion; a mild 2 minute session on her favorite oak fence board that has been there for 15 years without having to be replaced.

And my gelding who cribs 24/7 hasn’t destroyed anything either. During turn-out he just makes little divets on his favorite oak boards, the tops of some post etc. Wood chewers are far more destructive than cribbers unless you have feeble fence boards that are easily broken or pulled down by the force of cribbing which might be exacerbated if horse has to push through the tightness of a collar.

I also make sure my gelding has 24/7 hay right by his favorite cribbing spots so he has a constant supply when preferring to crib rather than graze + he eats his meals and cribs (his favorite pastime) in a dedicated spot = really happy horse + no weight loss.

When stalled he cribs on his stall webbing or cross bar and neither have been destroyed – they just get yucky from hay slobber and have to be cleaned often.

Bottom line: He needs to crib for whatever reason (came to me as a cribber) and I can’t imagine the mental and physical stress a ‘no cribbing’ environment would cause him.

[trubandloki]

As was suggested in one of your other versions of the same thread, move him to the wood fence, adding electric to the top and then provide him with a safe spot to crib.

[candyappy]

@horsegirl0317

Thank you both for your replies, but I can assure you that my horse is not unhappy in anyway. He is turned out with his best friend yet still wants to escape. I feel as though he gets bored which is the reason for his cribbing. He is a happy horse. I just need solutions for his cribbing.

First off you need to put him in fencing he will respect. The cheapest/ safest option is to run a hot wire along the wooden fence at the height that he cribs. My horse was a dedicated cribber for 19 years and after trying a few things that didn’t work ( collar, removing all possible sources to crib on, etc…) I just decided to offer a place in the stall and paddock/ field where he could crib.

He was happier, I was happier and he didn’t destroy my cross posts by pulling them down. his weight never suffered because he was as dedicated to eating as he was to cribbing.