Need help with charging! Please

[tequilajade]

I recently acquired a horse, he’s about 8 years old, a Tennessee walker/draft cross, estimated at about 17.5hh, and about 200 underweight at roughly 1200 pounds, we are working on the weight issue. The only thing I know about his history, is that he’s been allowed to roam, and do as he pleases, for the last 3- 4 years, and the people that sold him at auction, THINK he’s been ridden before. I got him from the person that bought him at auction, when he wasn’t the therapy horse she was looking for.

I’ve had him 6 weeks. When I got him, he was near impossible to catch, but once the halter was on him, he calmed right down and has… decent… ground manners. But he’s spooky. Real spooky. He doesn’t buck, or kick, not that I’ve seen anyway. But he charges. We were working on lunging, in a round pen, and he decided he was DONE. Took off, charged right through the round pen, and on up the hill to the pasture. I attempted to force him back by running around a post and almost creating a stub line, but with his sheer size, strength, and momentum, i was no challenge. I went straight out to the pasture, grabbed him, and we went back to the round pen. That was last week. Didn’t have a problem again until yesterday. We are in the midst of a nasty wind and thunderstorm. He had been impossible to catch in the pasture when the storm set in (he has created a new game, run, roll, and run some more, watch me till I get about 50 feet from him, and he takes off, finds a spot to roll, and runs to a different side of the pasture… I’m not thrilled) so last night, he couldn’t get out of that pasture fast enough. I don’t know why he chooses to respect all other fencing except the round pen. Maybe somewhere in the past he learned he can separate the pieces to get out. I have no idea. A new pen with posts and fencing is going in once I can actually get it into the ground. Anyway. He apparently does not like these 30- 50 mph gusts. One kicked up while he was walking on lead, and he was gone. I had no hope of stopping him. Even when he steps on his lead, it doesn’t even slow him down, he’s learned when he picks up his feet he will be free again. The property is fully fenced, with 8 foot chain link on 8 inch wood poles set 4 feet into the ground, and locked, so no worry about him going anywhere off property, but this charging issue is well. An issue.

I’ve been investigating patience poles, or stub poles, but im worried about how he only gives to pressure when he feels like it. If he sets himself into a panic, I can see trouble on the horizon.

I need help. Willing to try almost anything. I do have the chain lead, that loops through the halter to put extra pressure when needed. Once he sets his mind to charging, that doesn’t phase him either.

[Bluey]

A horse that has a catching problem should not be where he can be running off.

He needs to be fed only hay and be confined where someone can walk up to him, halter and take him to do something nice, like letting him eat a handful of grain where he is led to, brushed a bit and taken back to his small pen.
Several times a day even better, where the only excellent stuff he gets is when caught and led to good things.

That alone we do with every new horse establishes a routine and no reason for one to not be caught.

I think that such a horse would be better off trained-retrained by a good professional that can manage for the holes he has in his training.
He probably has more than a few, some that a professional can catch before they show up, preventing escalating to becoming dangerous.

[LookmaNohands]

You need a trainer that has experience dealing in a kind and effective manner with horses such as this. IMHO.

[Montanas_Girl]

This won’t be a popular opinion on these boards, but horses generally end up at low-end auctions for a reason. It sounds like this horse has a long history of terrible manners and getting away with murder. It will take a very, very long time and very, VERY, very skilled professionals to break this animal of his learned avoidance maneuvers. He should never be put in a position where not being caught, escaping the round pen, etc. are options. It will take quite a while and dedicated, consistent handling to turn a horse like this into a solid citizen. Even then, I would never recommend letting your guard down. The minute he senses a weakness or relaxation in you, he will take advantage and revert to his old habits. He may turn into a wonderful and very useful horse, but you will likely need consistent and professional help to get him to that point.

[wireweiners]

FWIW, weather can affect behavior. We’ve had the same stormy, gusty weather and my normally sweet, well behaved horses act like total butts. They know their normal feeding routine but when the weather is windy and has that stormy feel, they buck and fart and refuse to go through the gate unless I get the lunge whip out.

[findeight]

@tequilajade

I recently acquired a horse, he’s about 8 years old, a Tennessee walker/draft cross, estimated at about 17.5hh, and about 200 underweight at roughly 1200 pounds, we are working on the weight issue. The only thing I know about his history, is that he’s been allowed to roam, and do as he pleases, for the last 3- 4 years, and the people that sold him at auction, THINK he’s been ridden before. I got him from the person that bought him at auction, when he wasn’t the therapy horse she was looking for.

I’ve had him 6 weeks. When I got him, he was near impossible to catch, but once the halter was on him, he calmed right down and has… decent… ground manners. But he’s spooky. Real spooky. He doesn’t buck, or kick, not that I’ve seen anyway. But he charges. We were working on lunging, in a round pen, and he decided he was DONE. Took off, charged right through the round pen, and on up the hill to the pasture. I attempted to force him back by running around a post and almost creating a stub line, but with his sheer size, strength, and momentum, i was no challenge. I went straight out to the pasture, grabbed him, and we went back to the round pen. That was last week. Didn’t have a problem again until yesterday. We are in the midst of a nasty wind and thunderstorm. He had been impossible to catch in the pasture when the storm set in (he has created a new game, run, roll, and run some more, watch me till I get about 50 feet from him, and he takes off, finds a spot to roll, and runs to a different side of the pasture… I’m not thrilled) so last night, he couldn’t get out of that pasture fast enough. I don’t know why he chooses to respect all other fencing except the round pen. Maybe somewhere in the past he learned he can separate the pieces to get out. I have no idea. A new pen with posts and fencing is going in once I can actually get it into the ground. Anyway. He apparently does not like these 30- 50 mph gusts. One kicked up while he was walking on lead, and he was gone. I had no hope of stopping him. Even when he steps on his lead, it doesn’t even slow him down, he’s learned when he picks up his feet he will be free again. The property is fully fenced, with 8 foot chain link on 8 inch wood poles set 4 feet into the ground, and locked, so no worry about him going anywhere off property, but this charging issue is well. An issue.

I’ve been investigating patience poles, or stub poles, but im worried about how he only gives to pressure when he feels like it. If he sets himself into a panic, I can see trouble on the horizon.

I need help. Willing to try almost anything. I do have the chain lead, that loops through the halter to put extra pressure when needed. Once he sets his mind to charging, that doesn’t phase him either.

Yes, you need help, unless you have the experience to read this horse’s body language, the proper tools to manage him and are skilled at handling bad ground manners? Hes going to just run over you as he pleases. He has no idea it’s wrong and he’s been doing it for a long time-if he’s bulling thru a chain lead? It’s going to take an expert to untrain that and retrain him and it’s going to take time. He’s not panicking, whatever got him started is a moot point, don’t make excuses when he decides he doesn’t have to do anything or stay off the top of a handler. He also be trying to deliberately hurt his handler, that’s no good.

Just not a project for a beginner…and no, he does NOT have “decent ground manners”, he has no ground manners. At his size and weight, he will hurt you. You are so very lucky he didn’t demolish you along with the round pen when he went through the fence.

Probably should not try to handle him without experienced hands on guidence, he’s not suitable for a novice. Heck, I do have the skill set and experience and I wouldnt work with one like this. Therapy horse indeed…

BTW, OP, you do know a hand is 4"? So he’s 18.1 hands, not 17.5. Assuming he actually measures 73" at the top of the withers, meaning even with the top of a 6’1" persons head standing at his shoulder, with head and neck going above that. How do you get the halter on him if he’s not in the mood? 18h draft type in good weight is likely to be closer to 15-1600 lbs. that’s a lot of weight to throw around.

That size and the charging will hurt you. That is probably why he ended up at the auction. I feel sorry for those horses but it is correct some are there and can be bought cheap for a reason. Oh, one other thing, he will go through that chain link fence like a tractor. He’ can snap the posts if he runs right into them, hook and drag the link section. it but it won’t stop him if he gets a mind to go through it. Like driving a tractor through it. Seen it, several times. It’s a vet bill. Why chain link isn’t popular horse fencing.

[beau159]

@tequilajade

I recently acquired a horse, he’s about 8 years old, a Tennessee walker/draft cross, estimated at about 17.5hh, and about 200 underweight at roughly 1200 pounds, we are working on the weight issue. The only thing I know about his history, is that he’s been allowed to roam, and do as he pleases, for the last 3- 4 years, and the people that sold him at auction, THINK he’s been ridden before. I got him from the person that bought him at auction, when he wasn’t the therapy horse she was looking for.

Not that it matters but there’s no such thing as “17.5 hands”. Maybe it was just a typo, or maybe not. Each hand is 4 inches. So if the horse is exactly 17 hands, they would be 68 inches tall at the wither. If they are 69 inches tall, then they are 17.1 hands. And so forth.

One thing to consider, as his weight gets back to normal, he will have MORE energy and MORE strength. Sometimes, their issues then become worse as they are feeling better.

@tequilajade

I’ve had him 6 weeks. When I got him, he was near impossible to catch, but once the halter was on him, he calmed right down and has… decent… ground manners. But he’s spooky. Real spooky. He doesn’t buck, or kick, not that I’ve seen anyway. But he charges. We were working on lunging, in a round pen, and he decided he was DONE. Took off, charged right through the round pen, and on up the hill to the pasture.

…

I need help. Willing to try almost anything. I do have the chain lead, that loops through the halter to put extra pressure when needed. Once he sets his mind to charging, that doesn’t phase him either.

I would agree that this horse has NO ground manners, if he’s charging. And charging so bad that he is willing to run right through panels and/or fencing in your round pen.

I also agree that you need help. This is very serious. A very large horse who chooses to CHARGE can kill you. It is nothing to take lightly You will need to decide if this horse is really worth it to you to fix, or if you should return him to auction with full disclosure … or put him down. (No shame in putting down a dangerous horse). An 8-year-old horse that has learned he can do whatever he wants and get away with it, is going to take a lot of time and consistency to retrain. And even so, they may still have relapses and never be a dependable horse. Again, you’ll need to really consider if its worth it to you, especially when they are so many horses out there for sale without a dangerous charging problem.

I urge you to find a trainer who is used to dealing with a dangerous horse like this. And then send the horse for a minimum of 90 days, and see what happens. Making assumptions from your original post, I do not believe you sound knowledgeable enough to safely and successfully deal with this horse.

@tequilajade

The property is fully fenced, with 8 foot chain link on 8 inch wood poles set 4 feet into the ground, and locked, so no worry about him going anywhere off property, but this charging issue is well.

Chain link fencing would not be my fencing of choice for a horse.

@tequilajade

He had been impossible to catch in the pasture when the storm set in (he has created a new game, run, roll, and run some more, watch me till I get about 50 feet from him, and he takes off, finds a spot to roll, and runs to a different side of the pasture… I’m not thrilled) so last night, he couldn’t get out of that pasture fast enough.

I agree that he should not be in a big pasture if he cannot be caught. Get him into a smaller pen when you can work with him effectively … or where a trainer can work with him effectively. But be very wary in a small pen. A charging horse can eat up ground in a small pen in a hurry. Be always ready to get out of the way.

@tequilajade

I’ve been investigating patience poles, or stub poles, but im worried about how he only gives to pressure when he feels like it. If he sets himself into a panic, I can see trouble on the horizon.

I agree not to tie him solid. He is a long way away from that in his training.

Get yourself some help with him.

[csaper58]

Sounds like there was a reason he was at the sale.

Once a big horse has learned it can use it’s strength to it’s advantage, that can’t be un-learned.

Like when a kid learns a curse word, all you can do is make the consequences unpleasant enough to deter the behavior. It sounds like you are not physically of a size (nor is your equipment) to handle this beast. Every time he gets away, he is confirming that as his ‘go to’ reaction/evasion.

I can tell you from experience this horse, with a little help from adrenaline/panic, can break any snap, chain, fence you have. He requires equipment that will hold an elephant. He may kill himself or you fighting it.

Don’t let this become an ego contest. Don’t spend $$$ on new equipment to train this horse.

Please consider sending this horse to someone experienced with, and set up for, large horses and drafts. This horse needs to be rehabed ASAP and it will not be a quick fix.

Please wear a helmet when you are handling this horse!!!

[Bluey]

OP, think about this, if your car’s brakes quit on you, you don’t go taking them apart and trying to find what is wrong, asking people on the internet what to do, then try to fix them?
Your life and that of all on the highways you will be driving depend on having brakes in good repair and that takes someone that knows what they are doing with brakes that fail.

Your horse has the equivalent of brakes that failed.
Do get a professional to look him over and see if and what can be done.
Too dangerous for anyone that doesn’t know what they are doing with a horse like that, already on the defensive from humans.
Not only you may get hurt trying to fix him, but so may anyone else he may come in contact with, until he is dependably trained/retrained.

[RPM]

I recently acquired a horse, he’s about 8 years old, a Tennessee walker/draft cross, estimated at about 17.5hh, and about 200 underweight at roughly 1200 pounds, we are working on the weight issue. The only thing I know about his history, is that he’s been allowed to roam, and do as he pleases, for the last 3- 4 years, and the people that sold him at auction, THINK he’s been ridden before. I got him from the person that bought him at auction, when he wasn’t the therapy horse she was looking for.

I’m curious as to why you bought a TWH-draft cross. Odd cross, IME. I’m also curious as to why anyone (the other person) would buy a 17.2hh horse to use as a therapy horse. Most therapeutic riding centers I know of prefer horses 15hh at the most. (I’m assuming that when you typed “17.5” you meant 17 1/2 hands, which is correctly written “17.2hh.”)

I’m also wondering who the “we” you refer to is. You and your trainer?

I’m sorry this horse has been a disappointment to you. Horses can break your heart. Please be careful he doesn’t break anything else, including more fences! You have gotten some good advice here. Good luck in making a good decision!

[MyKindaFlower]

If I’m reading correctly this horse is bolting through your round pen fence but not directly charging AT you? Those are two different things in my humble opinion - the bolting I MIGHT be willing to work on but directly and aggressively charging a handler or any other person would be a serious euthanasia consideration for me.

My draft cross will attempt to bulldoze away from his handler if he or she does not have their attention on him. For us, it is fortunately more an occasional avoidance attempt than a set-in habit and a growled, “Quit!” is enough to make him rethink the idea. That said, I have to pay close attention to his body language and redirect him before he gets to that point. Yes, he is strong enough to break snaps/lines and I wouldn’t even have attempted to fix the issue without a good trainer assisting me. For us, it is not a panic thing as in a horse bolting in fear. It is plain and simple an attempt to avoid whatever he’s being asked to do. Fortunately, my guy has never attempted to take down a fence!

Op, I don’t want to assume what your skill level is but, even if you are an extremely experienced handler, this horse has your number. I strongly advise you to seek professional help with him before you or he get hurt. For what it’s worth, if you haven’t already had a full vet exam done, I would probably make that a priority If it were me, I would want to rule out ulcers and PSSM because both can cause erratic behavior. Probably want to have his eyes checked out too.

Best of luck OP! Stay safe!

[WhoaNellie44]

@beau159

I also agree that you need help. This is very serious. A very large horse who chooses to CHARGE can kill you. It is nothing to take lightly You will need to decide if this horse is really worth it to you to fix, or if you should return him to auction with full disclosure … or put him down. (No shame in putting down a dangerous horse). An 8-year-old horse that has learned he can do whatever he wants and get away with it, is going to take a lot of time and consistency to retrain. And even so, they may still have relapses and never be a dependable horse. Again, you’ll need to really consider if its worth it to you, especially when they are so many horses out there for sale without a dangerous charging problem.

I urge you to find a trainer who is used to dealing with a dangerous horse like this. And then send the horse for a minimum of 90 days, and see what happens. Making assumptions from your original post, I do not believe you sound knowledgeable enough to safely and successfully deal with this horse.

Yes, this. Except I wouldn’t return him to the auction to become someone else’s problem or go to slaughter. I would put him down if he’s that dangerous. My gelding would charge when he was a two year old. He was big and really intimidating. I took him to a professional. It wasn’t worth risking my life over.

[avjudge]

@MyKindaFlower

If I’m reading correctly this horse is bolting through your round pen fence but not directly charging AT you? Those are two different things in my humble opinion . . .

I agree, as I read it I believe the OP is not talking about actual charging but rather bolting.

Has the OP come back to read the replies?

[findeight]

No response from OP so far. Rather dramatic situation from a first time poster.