Need help with rewording collective marks for Intro tests at schooling show

[anon49845990]

I run a Euro-style lesson program for mostly pre-teens and teenagers - exclusively on lesson ponies/horses that we own. We assign different horses/ponies to students at each lesson and for shows - based on where the child is at - and students have no say into who they’ll be riding at the show.
In our program, students have to meet some benchmarks before moving up to the next lesson level - one of these for beginners is participating in a few (on-site) dressage schooling show at Intro A and Intro B.
We are not a “dressage barn” (our influence is mostly Pony-Club and eventing) and the goal is to introduce beginners to the basics of equestrian sports in general - some may eventually decide to go on to specialize in Dressage but at Intro A, we’re mostly talking 8 to 12 yo kids on small and medium ponies.
The goal of the “show participation benchmark” is to give these kids something to work towards (think dance school recital at the end of the year) and from a riding perspective, encourage accuracy of patterns and rider’s efficiency.

The “problem” we are having though with most judges is that they tend to school most schoolies quite low on gaits and don’t really focus on our learning goals for the children.
I mean, I get it, it’s tricky to give an 8 on gaits to a 20 yo Shetland pony. But the 9 yo kid on the Shetland can be doing her best at keeping said pony in a trot, at a steady tempo, and going deep into all her corners, riding accurately sized circles, etc. Unfortunately, what tends to happen is that kid is getting 6s (with comments like “good”) across the board and getting discouraged & not understanding why she’s getting much lower marks than her lesson mate who drew the Welsh pony with a cute trot that goes forward on its own without needing pony-club kicks…

So we would like to reword the collective marks descriptions for the Intro levels at our in-house shows (we’re fine with the USDF ones by the time they’re riding past Intro A and Intro B) to keep the focus on the rider (similar to a “dressage seat/equitation class” but with a pattern).

We’re fine with the Riders’ marks:

• Rider’s position (keeping in balance with horse).
• Rider’s effectiveness of aids (correct bend and preparation of transitions). (though perhaps make that coeff x2 in a lesson barn situation?)
• Geometry and accuracy (correct size and shape of circles and turns). (we like this one a lot too - coeff x2?)

The horse’s marks are a bit more of an issue in our situation. Should we scrap them all together? Or how would you rephrase the current ones to be more realistic about the abilities of a schoolie string piloted by beginner youth riders ? Any ideas welcome!

Thank you!

[Vindicated]

If you are hosting the shows, you can put all of these kids in their own class say “Acadamy X Intro A”. Tell the judge the criteria you are after, you may want to offer a smidge of extra $$ for that though. You really can’t change the score cards

[Nous]

I’d use the Gaits mark as a handicap, so if someone is riding a “6” pony then their ranking is based on what they score above (or below) 60%, someone on an “8” would be based on above / below 80%.
I.e. 6 pony scoring 65% would be +5
8 pony scoring 70% would be -10

You could run this in parallel with the actual scores.

[anon49845990]

Yes, that’s what we want to do - we want to change the criteria since we only have in-house shows (with no outside riders). We’re fine calling it something else than Intro A - we just need help on how to word those criteria so they also make sense to the judges.

[anon49845990]

That’s a really interesting idea, thanks!

[Training_Cupid]

If you think it’s not appropriate for your students, you can either just strike the mark for Gaits and score the test out of 150 points instead of 160, or replace it with “Harmony” which is what USEA and Western Dressage use.

WDAA: Harmony: the horse accepts the aids and influence of the rider with attention, relaxation, and confidence; willing partnership between horse and rider resulting in a free-flowing performance.

USEA: Harmony of Athlete and Horse: A confident partnership created by adhering to the scale of training.

[anon49845990]

That is very helpful. Thank you!

[Vindicated]

I get what she is saying, that the judge could be judging the EFFORT the kid is putting in vs what the school horse is giving readily.
I judge a few schooling shows every year, and the trainers kind of brief me on horse quirks. Horse A is real sticky about right lead, Horse B does not bend without an act of God.
You could request that any movement performed get no less than a 4 or 5 for the school classes.
So where 5 is Marginal now, 5 would then be the new 7!

[JBCool]

@Vindicated

I judge a few schooling shows every year, and the trainers kind of brief me on horse quirks. Horse A is real sticky about right lead, Horse B does not bend without an act of God.

Flashbacks to IHSA & IEA horse descriptions!

[I_dratherbe]

Maybe scoring could be something like the leadline dressage test objectives in tests like these?

https://dressageshowonline.com/leadline-tests

[sascha]

@anon49845990

I run a Euro-style lesson program for mostly pre-teens and teenagers - exclusively on lesson ponies/horses that we own. We assign different horses/ponies to students at each lesson and for shows - based on where the child is at - and students have no say into who they’ll be riding at the show.
In our program, students have to meet some benchmarks before moving up to the next lesson level - one of these for beginners is participating in a few (on-site) dressage schooling show at Intro A and Intro B.

You are a gem. These programs are so important and are dwindling terribly <3 <3 <3

I would re-word the tests as “Dressage Equitation Tests” and scrap the gaits portion of the collectives completely. Let your judges know right up front (before they arrive!) that it’s the competency of the student that is being judged and your most important foci in your program are x, y, and z. Maybe x, y, and z are geometry, accuracy, and secure riding position. Whatever works for you - edit the collectives to work for your program.

Send copies of the tests to the judges ahead so they can take a minute to comprehend the changes. Let them know the kids are ‘competing’ against their in-house peers as a test of whether they are ready to advance to the next level of difficulty in YOUR program, and that the ponies are not to be judged on fanciness.

I am betting that judges will be more than happy to watch the kids’ riding and judge that for a nice change of pace without being overly concerned that Pony A doesn’t have a great canter and Pony B is doing its best to walk the entire test.

[trubandloki]

@sascha

Let your judges know right up front (before they arrive!) that it’s the competency of the student that is being judged and your most important foci in your program are x, y, and z

I agree with Sascha’s whole post, but I want to add, you should tell the judge that this is special judging before you hire them, not just before they get there. Make sure they are on board with what you are doing and how you are doing it. I am sure most judges will have no problem doing this and will enjoy helping you with your kids and their show, but best to make sure that the judge is on board from the beginning.

[ParadoxFarm]

I agree with sascha and trubandloki. And I agree that this is an awesome thing you are doing and will be very important to these riders as they grow up. Good job!

[MsM]

I think you need to choose your judges carefully. They have been taught to judge the “quality of the gait” first and foremost. The execution of the figure or movement is more of a modifier to that base score.
Obviously this does not work well with kids riding school horses/ponies. (I dont like the system at all, but that is not the question here) So you need to find a judge who can put that training aside and judge only on the training and equitation aspects. People who have had school horses and/or experience with a lot of lower level folks on plain horses would be more likely to understand the assignment.

[Mersidoats]

When we host our little schooling shows, we ask the judge if they can “consider the source” when judging the riders. They are free to be judge according to the book for participants on their own trained horses. The kids come from a local trainer and ride her saintly schoolies. For them, we encourage the judges to reward accuracy, good equitation, harmony, rhythm, and ignore that Dobbins is a 25 y/o ex polo pony.

We’ve found that all of the judges are fine with this, and enjoy giving the kids a good experience riding their tests. The kids get feedback that they can actually use - riding more accurate figures, corners, learning how to generate contact, etc.

[Rackonteur]

You’ve gotten some really good suggestions from other posters. All I can add is that your students are very fortunate to have a trainer who has size-appropriate ponies for them to ride instead of just big adult-size horses!
You have a wonderful-sounding program!

[joiedevie99]

Yes! This is a great idea and something you should definitely do. If you want to borrow from existing materials, there are a few good sources: USDF Rider Tests and Dressage Seat Equitation.

2013 USDF Training Level Rider Test: https://files.usef.org/assets/cFkAwJ9Nm-c/training-level-rider-test.pdf

Article explaining the scoring: https://www.usdf.org/EduDocs/Competition/New_Rider_Tests.pdf

And here are the guidelines for judging an equitation class as opposed to a regular class:

equitationguidelines.pdf

[anon49845990]

These are all SO helpful! Thank you!
And you are all very kind - thank you for the nice words on the lesson program. It is a “labor of love” and while I often question my sanity when sitting arena-side in February in the Upper Midwest, it is all so rewarding to see the kids progress into independent & responsible young equestrians.
Thanks again!