need help--young growing horse, new to western

[Halcyon_Days]

I’ve never been much of a western rider, and compete in endurance mostly with treeless saddles. Unfortunately, new guy doesn’t like treeless and they creep up over his neck–and oldest son wants to use this guy for mounted shooting next year as well, so thought I’d see what you guys would recommend as a starting place.

He’s just coming four, foundation appaloosa with a short back–round flattish back with a well sprung ribcage, but narrow up front, withers are coming in, so not too bad, but no shoulders yet and a forward girth groove, so everything seems to slide forward on him. I’ve tried an old Tucker (centerfire rigging and flared shoulders–shot over his neck) Ortho-Flex (same problem with set back rigging) a cheapie Royal King training saddle is too wide and tips up in back, too long, bridged and made him sore. Barefoot treeless “kind of” works if I use a crupper, but he gets pretty pissy on the downhills–goosed by crupper and not enough wither clearance in the pommel. Borrowed a neighbors old Hereford/TexTan (sqhb) and it worked pretty well, although the twist was a bit wide for me.

Would like to keep it under $1200 or so, would much prefer old quality vs new crap–and of course I realize that in a year or two he’ll probably need a new saddle anyway

I see ads for Circle Y, Crates, Tex Tan, Allegany, Dixieland, etc

Anyone have a flash of insight? Yes, I know I can order saddle fitting forms (ugh) just want a easy, brilliant solution. LOL

[aktill]

Confo picture? I’m thinking downhill with a tapered barrel.

[NoSuchPerson]

[QUOTE=Halcyon Days;7596137]
short back–round flattish back with a well sprung ribcage, but narrow up front, withers are coming in, so not too bad, but no shoulders yet and a forward girth groove, so everything seems to slide forward on him. [/QUOTE]

Lots of mules are built like this. You might try an mule saddle.

[Halcyon_Days]

he’s not downhill, and I was thinking a mule saddle would have more pitch to the bars? More A-frame? I’m demo-ing a Circle Y Roper/All-around saddle, it’s a heavy beast, but seems to fit okay, double rigging

[Halcyon_Days]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10202668611650353&set=a.10202668600250068.1073741838.1050101552&type=3&theater

[Halcyon_Days]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10202668601330095&set=a.10202668600250068.1073741838.1050101552&type=3&theater

[Halcyon_Days]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10202604907897799&set=a.10201127064312633.1073741832.1050101552&type=3&theater

this one shows him in the treeless saddle–within one minute or so, it’s shot forward over his withers

[craz4crtrs]

What are you going to be doing with him? A barrel saddle may be the ticket. He has shoulders but he isn’t wide. At least not wide like my horses. He is going to have a lot of wither. Very straight backed, anything with any rock is going to pop up on him. What does the Circle Y look like? What tree width? Full bars are going to be too wide and ride up on his neck. Either a semi bar or qh bar depending on the saddle with straighter bars. A mule tree may be perfect.

[NoSuchPerson]

[QUOTE=Halcyon Days;7597931]
he’s not downhill, and I was thinking a mule saddle would have more pitch to the bars? More A-frame? I’m demo-ing a Circle Y Roper/All-around saddle, it’s a heavy beast, but seems to fit okay, double rigging[/QUOTE]

A gaited mule saddle or an older mule saddle may be more “A-frame,” but a more modern mule saddle likely won’t be. (Having said that, though, I think even the new Circle Y mule saddles are more “A-frame.”)

Mule saddles generally have less rock than horse saddles, but that’s variable with the maker, just like gullet width tends to be, and lots of horses have flat enough toplines that they do well with a saddle that has less rock.

[aktill]

By most saddle fitting definitions, your guy is downhill right now:
http://www.rodnikkel.com/content/saddle-tree-blog-from-shop-and-desk/evaluating-horses-back-saddle-fit-part-one/

That’s likely why you’re having trouble keeping a saddle back.

[Pocket_Pony]

[QUOTE=Halcyon Days;7597936]
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10202668611650353&set=a.10202668600250068.1073741838.1050101552&type=3&theater[/QUOTE]

In this picture he looks downhill to me - if you just look at the area of his back, it slopes downward from back to front, which I would imagine is what a saddle wants to do.

Have you heard of/looked at/considered Specialized saddles? When Mac was younger and I started riding him I got one and really liked it. You can use different “panels” with it, use shims if necessary, and change your padding/shims as your horse grows.

You might want to look into a Ricotti pad. with your current saddle. I had a friend who used one and loved it.

[Arcadien]

He’s cute! Love Apps

How about a “foregirth”? only heard of them used in dressage, but don’t see why it couldn’t be adapted to a western or trail type saddle…

[Halcyon_Days]

I know it’s super hard to judge from photos–will try and get a classic confo one today–if he were a human, you’ call him “pear shaped” and the biggest issue seems to be that forward girth groove–combined with a sprung rib cage, all cinches migrate to that narrowest spot right behind his armpits, pulling the saddle along with it. Most of the endurance type saddles have rigging set back a bit–centerfire, etc for long hours at trotting speed on the trail, just doesn’t work for him. This full double rigged roper just locked onto his back and didn’t budge, but is enormous and heavy, will post a photo soon and see if you guys think it’s just too big for him

[Halcyon_Days]

posted photos here: http://s105.photobucket.com/user/Endurogirl/library/Scout%20back

saddle is a bit wide, but would it work with a dense felt type pad, and assuming he’ll continue to grow and fill out–he’s just coming 4 in July

I just have it on trial, should I return it and look more for a barrel style? If son is going to do mounted shooting, he’s going to need a horned saddle–although I personally would like lighter and more streamlined, I"m paying, so he’ll deal with my choice

[craz4crtrs]

Do you ever go to Creswell near Eugene? There is a saddle shop there called Wagon Wheel Feed. Last year when I was trying to find SOMETHING to fit my hard to fit mare, I looked at some saddles they had listed online. Shannon, if she is still there, was fantastic to work with. They carry good brands…Martin, I think Cactus and do have a lot of barrel saddles. Eugene is a long ways from me, but I had family that lived in Molalla up until recently.

So, I know its a couple hours from you or so, but they were nice and knowledgeable to talk with. I sent pictures and tracings, and they were able to rule out what wouldn’t fit. Some barrel saddles are really more all around and very comfortable to ride in. 541-942-4386 is their number.

If you do Facebook, search for Wagon Wheel Feed and they have a page with lots of saddle pictures. Give it a whirl, ya never know. Good luck.

The roper looks a little wide and overall pretty long on him. If it works for you great, but I am not sure its a great fit, especially after you are on him.