Need Ideas/ Advice - Sr Dog with Gastro Issues

[kaya842]

10yr old Lab/ Pyr spayed female having gastro issues (bloating, diarrhea, some small vomiting, excessive drooling/ nausea) for 3 weeks now.

We’ve been to the vet twice, they ran blood work which all came back normal including the pancreatitis test (?). They xrayed her abdomen and chest (2x) with no abnormal findings except a smaller liver which was reported as not an issue.

Shes been on Omeprazole daily for 2 weeks, Cerenia we’ve tried twice but it seems to cause the diarrhea (but helps with the drooling/ nausea) so she is not currently on it, did a round of metronidazole (finished a few days ago), and they gave us some Sucralfate/ Carafate for her on Friday which we haven’t started as they didn’t give us complete dosing instructions (is it every 12 hours, 24, 8?).

Her appetite is good and she is drinking normally. She seems in good spirits and did a 2 mile walk at the park yesterday with a normal amount of energy / tiredness after. She did lose 5lbs in a little over a month (end of Jan to beginning of March) that was not intentional, in fact we had upped her kibble in that time span. We did change her kibble maybe a month ago from Wysong Epigen (which she’d been on since November) to Orijen Six Fish Amazing Grains. We’ve since put her back on the Wysong (about a week ago) with a small amount of Ziwi (both foods chicken based) to get her to finish the Wysong.

She’s never had a food allergy/ reaction before (had her since a puppy) and I’m not sure what it could be. We were improving with the removal of the Orijen (less bloating, seemingly less nausea) until this AM (had a dose of Cerenia yesterday) when she had diarrhea again. I just want my poor girl to feel better!

Edited to break up the wall of text.

[Simkie]

I’ve never had great results with Cerenia alone, and find Zofran much more effective for nausea.

Did she improve with the metronidazole?

What did the fecal show?

Adding famotidine might be worth a shot. Some people & animals don’t respond much to PPIs. (I am one of them!)

Has anyone discussed an abdominal ultrasound? That could be a next step.

[Displaced_Yankee]

I wanted to share my thread RE: GI issues in my older dog from a year or two ago.

Ongoing GI issues in dog - Final Update: Post 30

My poor Carolina Road Dog is having the full range of GI issues. We are trying to balance caring for our dog and money. Here is the timeline: ETA: She is about 13 years old, 55 lbs and an easy keeper. Keeps a pretty tight feeding and bathroom schedule normally. No underlying health issues that we have identified. 100% Good Dog. Wednesday, 09/28: Dog begins having diarrhea. Like “run-out-the-door-runny” diarrhea. We immediately pull her off of her kibble and feed her 1/4 cup of plain rice and …

ETA: @Simkie was a great contributor on this thread!

I did a quick read back through it and I am SO grateful for all of the COTH comments and ideas. Maybe some help for you?

In the end we had no real answer as to the cause, but our old girl continues to do well on Purina Pro Plan Sensitive Skin & Stomach and Purina Fortiflora probiotics. The full abdominal ultrasound was great for peace of mind that there was nothing else going on.

(Lily is still going strong today! Even ran off on me to visit friends today!)

[Minxitbabe]

I have one that has been plagued with GI issues his whole life. We do Fortiflora if it is a bad flare up. He gets canned pumpkin in both meals daily as it won’t hurt anything and seems to help keep everything as it should be.
My previous old man that developed IBD later in life was on famotidine and prednisone. And the famotidine made a huge difference. Cerenia never worked for him either.

[DiamondJubilee]

I love a good pre/probiotic for gut issues, especially after they have been on an antibiotic as their guts flora is all out of whack and all the good (and bad) bacteria get killed off.

I do like the Omega Alpha Probiotic 8 for dogs and find it works wonders (its also great to feed to a dog thats currently on an antibiotic as well as one of the strains in there doesn’t get killed by them - saccharmoyces boulardii - its a hard strain to find in probiotics, but its in the Omega Alpha). The price is great on Amazon for it. I just purchased a 1kg container for $77.https://www.amazon.ca/Probiotic-Plus-Probiotics-Enzymes-Digestive/dp/B07ZMGTYS7/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=2HRQNI2IRP50D&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.EutOFgPYYMwYuz9NwZyZUZ_n85aXq4zxZr49CCKcik14N9kp973Zv3vs7sNjsn9cSW-qlbS64mlxZK8X-3z6qBfO0e6vvBXm3Y7hXduE_ONkkvJ0UeWsdy6iWMMmxbq9aTDKZ90cSEShi8ou3m6QmZvWrrCIcoksdGR3IjaM3xjG6gkHGqDNn6aKCGYilcH2Fun8CNmBV8fR-WBfyVc54boyVxpPwR8AJoQoy5rJRUmUfoJtBasgW-gt8iB6-lhcw4C4GAC_VduwMNOqQSdWz1thMGGXsDYGOiHZRMq-KzQ.WJaFtGMyUYNf6WoZYp5T8Zh_2RYOy8uZv9lie9upp_A&dib_tag=se&keywords=omega%2Balpha&qid=1710757843&sprefix=omega%2Balpah%2Caps%2C80&sr=8-2-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&th=1

As Minxibabe mentioned, pumpkin is great to help harden up stool (good fibre and gut help). Just make sure it isn’t the pumpkin pie filling. Just pure pumpkin in a can is great. 1-2 tbsp /meal really does help.

Slippery Elm and marshmallow root are also a nice gut soothers. These are both in the Omega Alpha probiotic as well

[kaya842]

Oh I’ll see if we try some Zofran. The Cerenia seems to help with nausea but makes the diarrhea so much worse that it’s not worth continuing it.

Tough to say if the metro helped. She did seem to improve but after that dose of Cerenia Friday I think it was, we’ve been back to straight liquid poops.

We haven’t done a fecal yet (I know, I know!) - our puppy tried to eat the first sample tube so we picked up a new one on Friday but with her poop being 100% liquid we aren’t sure how to get a sample other than standing the “splash zone”.

The vet did mention an US as a possible next step. I’m all for it since we have no real leads as of yet and she hasn’t truly improved. We are also traveling for a week and a half at the beginning of April so I’m very anxious to get her sorted out before we leave (she can’t come with us, it’s a work trip and we have to fly).

Forgot to put in OP that she gets white rice + pumpkin + kibble (usually about half of her normal ration, but we are trying to keep her from losing any more weight so it’s been closer to 3/4) when she gets the runs. Shes also been on Vitalize’s dog probiotic this whole time but it doesn’t seem to be helping. The response about Fortiflora reminded me we had some of that on hand so I switch from the Vitalize to the Fortiflora yesterday.

I’m going to be calling the vet today to ask about Zofran, famotidine, the Carafate dosing, US scheduling, and have them send me her blood work and X-rays. I may send them off to MU for a second opinion (if they will allow for that, I know they do for horses) just to thoroughly cover all bases.

[Simkie]

Famotidine is OTC. Here’s canine dosing:

Using Famotidine For Dogs: The Complete Guide

In your shoes, I’d absolutely make getting a fecal a priority. The vet can get a sample with a loop. Send it out for a diarrhea panel, not just an in house floatation. (Do vets even do fecals in house anymore? Regardless, do the more comprehensive diarrhea panel option, not just the basic fecal.)

Zofran will probably need to go to a human pharmacy–pull up GoodRX to see where best to fill it. It’s not very expensive (with GoodRX), but pricing can vary pharmacy to pharmacy.

My concern here would be that the food change is a red herring, and there’s something more serious going on in the gut. Especially since you’ve got upcoming travel, and no really concrete answers right now, getting an abdominal u/s scheduled is not unreasonable. Maybe see what you get with a fecal, then u/s next. Skill matters a lot with ultrasound, so line that up with someone who really knows what they’re looking at.

Has the puppy popped with any loose stool since this started? What’s the timeline on bringing the puppy into the house, and all of this? Puppies can come with weird intestinal bugs. It might be interesting to run a fecal on the puppy, too?

[kaya842]

Would the Famotidine be in place of the Omeprazole or along side?

She goes in on Thursday for PT (watertreadmill she’s about 6 weeks into that), so if we aren’t able to get a sample before then hopefully they can grab one then. I’ll be sure to ask for the most comprehensive panel.

I agree WRT the food - she’s never had any digestive issues (or other issues) with any different foods or feed changes.

The skill comment about US is very, very true. Do they not scope dogs like horses? It seemed odd to me that she was put on an ulcer treatment when that isn’t really where my mind went with symptoms but I’m so not familiar with ulcers in any species except horses.

He has a little bit of loose stool once in the past few weeks. I was thinking to run a fecal on him too just to cover all bases. We brought him home about 2-3 weeks before her gastro issues started. I do wonder if he has something to do with it (stressing her out maybe?). They get along well, but he struggles with personal space boundaries. He has gotten MUCH better but is still a pup and sometimes is all over her space (we do our best to protect her peace, her spaces, and her play time). They are always fed separately and we ensure to give everyone equal attention whether cuddle or play time.

[Simkie]

Omeprazole & famotidine are different drug classes, and can be used together. Do you feel like you’re getting anything from the omeprazole? If you’d prefer to drop it, I’d overlap famotidine by several days so you avoid rebound hyperacidity that comes with discontinuing the omeprazole. But no worries doing both.

I’ve never really heard about scoping dogs for ulcers, it’s always just straight to treatment. If I had to guess why, it may just be due to cost. Scoping a dog is probably a full anesthesia event. Generalist small animal vets probably don’t have a scope. So that’s, what, $1k+ at a referral center? Versus like 25 bucks in omeprazole or famotidine or whatever. The equation is a bit different in horses where we can scope them standing for a few hundred bucks and a course of Gastrogard is well north of a grand.

I’d definitely get a comprehensive fecal on the baby dog, too. That timing is suuuuuuper suspicious, and the narrative could make a lot of sense–puppy brings something in, infects your older dog who is perhaps not quite 100% from an immune perspective due to age, then add in some stress and boom–here you are. My puppies (from really good breeders!) have often come with a GI thing. The last one had giardia. I usually skip fecals because they require a level of coordination and planning I find difficult (lol sigh) but it’s a really good idea to run at least one on new pets.

Will you be allowed to do water treadmill with an undiagnosed diarrhea?

[kaya842]

I don’t feel like the omeprazole has made any difference good or bad, but know from horse experience sometimes it takes omeprazole + other drug to really make a difference (if the issue truly is ulcers) so may give it a few days with the famotidine and Sucralfate (receptionist said once daily) and see where we are before dropping the omeprazole. We have plenty of it in hand and it won’t cost anything to continue it for a bit longer.

That makes sense about the cost to treat vs cost to scope being inverse of what it is for horses. I figured the anesthesia would be a big factor (and am not super interested in having her go under if it’s at all avoidable).

That all makes sense! We should be able to get his sample in today or tomorrow so maybe that will help direct us better.

Not sure about the treadmill, I was wondering the same thing. Our vet does the treadmill and all of her other care so are aware of the ongoing situation and haven’t mentioned canceling/ postponing PT. We did cancel last weeks PT appt but only because that was the only time they could do her chest and abdominal X-rays and when asked if I’d rather do PT or rads I chose rads.

[Simkie]

It sounds like you’ve got a good plan!

When was she last in the water treadmill? If the vet isn’t pulling sick dogs from that sort of treatment, it could be another avenue for GI illness. Hopefully not but I’ve had a few circumstances of pets coming home from the vet ill and it’s always frustrating (and often overlooked, since we assume they’re being careful in that regard. But sometimes not )

[Minxitbabe]

Is there a reason you can’t ditch the kibble all together and do boiled chicken and rice only? Plus pumpkin of course. Fecal is a must do and should have been priority after a less than a week of not clearing up. Now a fecal has never shown anything on mine but since he gets to live a dogs life that involves puddles and creeks and the great not 100% monitored outdoors it helps check some things off the list. Perhaps I have become too accustomed to needing to catch bodily expulsions but a ziplock bag with a cuff created on top and decent timing makes it pretty easy. My old lady started to get frequent UTIs in her last few years and I could even get a urine sample from her with a ziplock and she was a dedicated squatter. Use what you need to get the sample and it can be transferred into proper receptacle later.

[kaya842]

We had a solid poop today! Dropped the fecal sample at the vets office so hopefully we hear back on that soon. I had ordered her the Dr Harvey’s Runs Be Done supplement and started her on 3 scoops/ day yesterday. I remembered using it in the past for her tummy but couldn’t remember if it helped.

[kaya842]

We are on day 3 or so of solid poops! And no nausea or vomiting. Still pending fecal results from the vet. She goes in for PT today so will be following up with them then. We pulled her off the rice today, going to try to slowly go back to a normal diet and see if it sticks. I think the Fortiflora and Runs Be Done are the things helping her.

[Simkie]

Hooray! Hopefully whatever it was has just run the course. Did you get a fecal in on your baby dog, too? (It is worth it, even if everything is back to normal!)

[GoodTimes]

It really could be as simple as the stress from the new puppy throwing everything out of whack, possibly a weird bug as well.

Back in January we dog sat BILs dog for 10 days. It really threw our dog for a loop. She’s 10 and doesn’t “go with the flow” as well as she used to. It’s possible he brought something into the house, or he just stressed her out. For about three weeks we had some random nausea/vomiting and a couple soft stools. Our dog was waking us up in the middle of the night a few times a week for nearly a month after the other dog went home. Pumpkin and Fortiflora seem to have gotten things back under control.

[kaya842]

Not yet - SO is asking vet now as he picks up senior doggo from PT

[kaya842]

Fecal came back unremarkable so vet thinks it may be an allergy (I don’t necessarily agree). We still have solid poops so they advised to continue on as we have been and let them know if anything changes.

[mjwright]

1 tbsp of psyllium husk powder in their floated food (food with water like cereal if you don’t already do that), is a game changer for some dogs.
Floated food helps with digestion and psyllium is a powerful prebiotic.

[floppyammy]

Our last sighthound needed to be on prescription kibble his whole life for IBS/Colitis.
He was on Purina Pro Plan Veterinary Diets EN Gastroenteric Canine Formula. Literally any other food would cause him to turn into a diarrhea fountain.

Our current whippet is also very gastrointestinally sensitive (it’s very common in sighthounds). She is on Purina Pro Plan Specialized Adult Sensitive Skin and Stomach, Purina Pro Plan Veterinary Supplements Fortiflora Canine Probiotic, and Olewo Carrots.

All sighthound folks know that Olewo Carrots are a literal game changer for normal bowel movements!

Amazon.com : Olewo Original Carrots for Dogs – Fiber for Dog Stool Hardener, Dog Food Toppers for Picky Eaters, Skin & Coat Support, Multivitamin for Dogs, Probiotics for Dogs Digestive and Dog Gut Health, 5.5 lbs : Dehydrated Pet Food : Pet Supplies