The OP, according to her FB page, studies MARKETING at Binghamton, not pre-vet major. The researcher she cites as her mentor is a principal at the company “ThoroughGen”, a for-profit equine genetics company. And, this mentor has demonstrated in this article that he’s quite comfortable with dishonest sample gathering techniques (i.e. snatching tail hairs at Churchill Downs when trainers walked away)
Unfortunately this project seems to lack both science and marketing skills.
[QUOTE=Highflyer;8590528]
Unfortunately this project seems to lack both science and marketing skills.[/QUOTE]
No kidding. (“NEED Mane Samples” is clearly not going to win any awards at AdAge.)
“ThoroughGen” doesn’t exactly inspire confidence either, but, still. If this guy is really an academic, I’m kind of surprised he’d allow one of his students to post such a carelessly slapped together request on a public forum. I sure wouldn’t.
Maybe the OP is doing this without her teacher’s approval? Probably not a very good move if so.
If you have any questions regarding this research please message me.
Look here, kiddo: you’re the one breaking all sorts of basic research rules - and making your teacher look like crap in the process - so you have no business being “ashamed with” anybody.
If you’re honestly trying to take initiative and contribute to actual research somewhere, at least look over some basic guidelines on how to do that:
https://c.ymcdn.com/sites/www.casro.org/resource/resmgr/casro_code_of_standards.pdf
Sheesh.
[QUOTE=Aly.Maxian;8590625]
Honestly, I am quite ashamed with you “horse” people. To go assuming information without asking me first, that shows disrespect, no matter what might be “wrong” with my post. I would appreciate if you give messaged me with your assumptions before writing it on the thread.
Thank you![/QUOTE]
It is a public forum and you asked people to give you blind faith.
It is not wrong that people are doing research after your answers to very basic questions left then hanging because you tell us you can not tell us because it is super secret.
In other words, get mad if you want but you really have no grounds to get mad.
If someone posted something here that is not accurate why not give the accurate information to dispute what they said?
[QUOTE=trubandloki;8590683]
If someone posted something here that is not accurate why not give the accurate information to dispute what they said?[/QUOTE]
Exactly.
As it is, you’ve given us the impression that a specific college professor is abusing his position terribly, and using unsupervised teenagers to do bogus online “research” for a commercial venture of his own.
Not good.
I still can’t figure out what “horses that don’t jump” means. Mine doesn’t jump anymore, but he was quite capable and good at it. OP, have you taken any research methods classes yet? Might be a good prerequisite before jumping into getting involved with this sort of project.
Disrespect is withholding information and shading the truth in order to get people to participate in a study. Take heart-- this is a good learning experience for both your marketing and future veterinary plans. Sit back and think about what went wrong in this case and what you’ll do differently next time.
[QUOTE=caffeinated;8590755]
I still can’t figure out what “horses that don’t jump” means. Mine doesn’t jump anymore, but he was quite capable and good at it. [/QUOTE]
This is a good point. I wish the OP would spend some time clarifying!
My old horse used to jump and do it nicely. He is not sound anymore so clearly does not jump anymore. Would he count as a horse that jumps or a horse that does not jump?
My pony jumps, gets from one side to the other, just fine. Is she going to win a hunter class? No way, never, not a chance. Does she count a a horse that jumps or a horse that does not jump?
And just FYI, running a project or promotion off of Facebook that requires a participant to like a Facebook page is a violation of Facebook’s ToU.
I can’t even get into all the privacy issues with this request and survey. Whether this is beneath it all a science project or a marketing consumer survey project, there are just so many problems.
[QUOTE=caffeinated;8590755]
OP, have you taken any research methods classes yet? Might be a good prerequisite before jumping into getting involved with this sort of project.[/QUOTE]
Ha, nice one. Pun intended? 
[QUOTE=Aly.Maxian;8590625]
Honestly, I am quite ashamed with you “horse” people. To go assuming information without asking me first, that shows disrespect, no matter what might be “wrong” with my post. I would appreciate if you give messaged me with your assumptions before writing it on the thread.
Thank you![/QUOTE]
Why does questioning your project make the people responding “horse” people? I’m confused. Are they incapable of being proper horsemen/women because they aren’t putting blind faith in your research? Shall we petition the mods to put an asterisk* by each of their usernames to clarify they are not in fact true horse people because they dare question you? Why are you getting huffy with people for failing to understand your motives when you have laid them out in such a confusing manner? What is so cloak-and-dagger about this project that you can’t tell anyone details? Are you working covertly for the CIA to develop a species of super-horse assassins to infiltrate the Olympics that can leap from the arena to the stands and take out political enemies? Is the field of equine genetics really so cutthroat that you really cannot divulge any details?
I also don’t get what you mean by “can’t jump”. Any horse can jump right? Even the most decrepit old nag that never saw a cross rail its entire career will let out a rare buck-fart-jump on a really good day. Is there some specific jumping style you are looking for? Willingness? Enthusiasm? A particular level of talent? You are so vague about what you are looking for that it really encompasses every horse alive barring the ones with conditions or injuries so severe that they cannot physically jump.
[QUOTE=Aly.Maxian;8590625]
Honestly, I am quite ashamed with you “horse” people. To go assuming information without asking me first, that shows disrespect, no matter what might be “wrong” with my post. I would appreciate if you give messaged me with your assumptions before writing it on the thread.
Thank you![/QUOTE]
If you think “horse” people are tough you will never survive the peer review process. If you had clearly detailed the objective of your “study” readers would not be required to make assumptions in the first place.
If you intend to become even peripherally involved in research you can not have an emotional response to people questioning your research (throwing the word disrespect around will not fly), whether that be your underlying hypothesis, approach, statistical analysis or conclusions. Scientists are trained to think critically and ask these questions and will be much harder on you than the folks on this forum.
Take this as a learning experience, people have asked some very pertinent questions and made good suggestions to improving your scientific process.
[QUOTE=Aly.Maxian;8590625]
Honestly, I am quite ashamed with you “horse” people. To go assuming information without asking me first, that shows disrespect, no matter what might be “wrong” with my post. I would appreciate if you give messaged me with your assumptions before writing it on the thread.
Thank you![/QUOTE]
Double post, sorry!
[QUOTE=Red Barn;8590569]
No kidding. (“NEED Mane Samples” is clearly not going to win any awards at AdAge.)
“ThoroughGen” doesn’t exactly inspire confidence either, but, still. If this guy is really an academic, I’m kind of surprised he’d allow one of his students to post such a carelessly slapped together request on a public forum. I sure wouldn’t.
Maybe the OP is doing this without her teacher’s approval? Probably not a very good move if so.[/QUOTE]
That is super interesting information. Perhaps he needs a link to the thread.
[QUOTE=Aly.Maxian;8590625]Honestly, I am quite ashamed with you “horse” people. To go assuming information without asking me first, that shows disrespect, no matter what might be “wrong” with my post. I would appreciate if you give messaged me with your assumptions before writing it on the thread.
Thank you![/QUOTE]
“You” have “got” to be “kidding” me. Good luck with the “project”, smartypants.
[QUOTE=IPEsq;8590797]And just FYI, running a project or promotion off of Facebook that requires a participant to like a Facebook page is a violation of Facebook’s ToU.
I can’t even get into all the privacy issues with this request and survey. Whether this is beneath it all a science project or a marketing consumer survey project, there are just so many problems.[/QUOTE]
Yes, but we are just “horse” people. What do we know? Certainly there couldn’t be any folks with backgrounds/careers that could be helpful in this huge, varied and eclectic group, could there? ;):lol:
[QUOTE=HungarianHippo;8590422]
The OP, according to her FB page, studies MARKETING at Binghamton, not pre-vet major. The researcher she cites as her mentor is a principal at the company “ThoroughGen”, a for-profit equine genetics company. And, this mentor has demonstrated in this article that he’s quite comfortable with dishonest sample gathering techniques (i.e. snatching tail hairs at Churchill Downs when trainers walked away)[/QUOTE]
If this is the same supervisor - still an associate professor at the university - I remember this. Was at Churchill with a real Thoroughbred owner, a university friend of my uncle’s. These “professionals” were stepping on toes with their antics because simply put you didn’t know them from Jack Dick on the side of the road. These are MULTI-million dollar horses at Churchill, not $20 “nags” (no insult), and anyone is going to get edgy when some no name starts snatching at their horses / equipment and doesn’t even bother to identify themselves.
As most in the circuit know - the supposedly dang “horse people” - genetics is on a whim unless you genetically modify the foal [which will never be allowed] and even if you have a horse with a multi-million dollar pedigree with genetics on its side… if the horse is broke, trained, or started wrong [as racing is all a game of chance] all that research means absolutely squat.
Legit thoroughbred breeders figured out this gimmick decades ago - why do you think some of the best horses come from line and inbreed pedigrees? It isn’t because they liked the pretty looks - it is because those horses threw good foals.
To be as condesensing as the OP this is what happens when the non “horse people” start butting their noses into the “horse people” world.
[QUOTE=Aly.Maxian;8590625]Honestly, I am quite ashamed with you “horse” people. To go assuming information without asking me first, that shows disrespect, no matter what might be “wrong” with my post. I would appreciate if you give messaged me with your assumptions before writing it on the thread.
Thank you![/QUOTE]
First off there’s something wrong with your survey. Done properly in this field it should be utterly anonymous.
You ask for names - horse, owner & barn. Like with the thoroughbred there are stables / owners / breeders and even barns that are well known for producing successive generations of good jumpers.
By asking this you are going to get biased results. Horse A from a no name barn / no name pedigree can’t jump, while Horse B from some famous bloodline can jump. Surprise, surprise.
Websites like allpedigree make it very easy to research so even if I didn’t give you anything but my horse’s name as long as it isn’t just the call name you can easily look him/her up and find out if they come from a good line or a bad line.
My cousin trained with some good trainers for show jumping. Want to know what one of them said — you can have a horse worth more than its weight in gold, a pedigree more perfect than finding a 100 karat diamond laying on the sidewalk, however, if the rider can’t ride all that breeding will never be capable of compensating.
To the OP the only disrespect shown has been by you. Most of the others have been merely curious and asking what are legit questions.
What qualifies as a “jumping” horse. You never answer and your survey summary is even more in the dark.
I own a shire cross - he jumps like an elephant [big, slow, heavy plodding gait], however, he has not balked at a single jump in over 8 years and that includes bigger wider jumps on the trail [such as small streams]. He jumps perfectly mind you - position of legs, etc., is correct - because I have done jumping for years. Does he qualify as a “jumping” horse because as per your survey he’d be a “poor” jumper given as we’ve never competed in a single show.
Now I have an Arabian mare, by The Minstril, who when she was younger I have competed done a few minor shows with. She balks at any jump that is above a certain height after a bad spill. Is she a “jumper” or not?
Your research is far too vague and, unfortunately, it appears like you have done little research into actual horse jumping. Because if you had you’d be capable of answering the questions instead of throwing “insults” I guess and/or a “tantrum” because they are questioning what exactly you are after.
As one of the other posters said even an ancient nag if pressed [as long as not injured] will jump. After all, horses in the wild jump over obstacles - no one taught them how.
I think the OP here, the post not the poster, has been edited. Don’t recall the “if you can’t say something nice…” remark and it’s shorter then I recall.
But nobody has said anything mean. Just questioned an unknown person implying they are doing an unexplained scientific study without giving any details associated with the University while asking for too much personal information and a FB like from COTHers. The remark about schedule not allowing time to ride the horses to better evaluate them and needing barn and trainer names to go along with the samples sounds amateurish, unscientific and too much like phishing for information for marketing purposes, at best.
OP, it is not necessary to send me yet another PM reminding me to PM you first for private discussion of any questions instead of posting them publically on the thread you started.
Who is your PI and where can we direct our questions regarding animal care and use? Who is funding you?
This is an undergraduate research project, yes? You really need to talk to your PI about your survey design. People here are not trying to be disrespectful, however there are a lot of us who do research for a living and see the potential harm this could do for your career if it goes ahead as is. Have you considered a summer student position somewhere as a first step? I take 4-6 undergraduates every summer, most of whom want to get into medical school eventually, in my lab every summer. I try to make it so that they can publish something and attend a conference by the end so as to help them get their foot in the door. Try to see if there is someone at your school who will do the same for your.
That did cross my mind, actually, since I don’t believe for a nanosecond that any sane person would “give the reins to this research” over to this kid. On second thought, though, my sense is that she’s just goofing around here, and is probably perfectly harmless.
Now, if six months go by and I start seeing ads for “JumpGen - scientifically proven to improve sport horse breeding and performance in all disciplines!” I’ll be kicking myself. But hey, I’d rather not pick on a “horse” girl if I can help it, y’know?
:lol:
