Need new horse, no idea what to get

[WannabeDQ]

Just like the title said, I’m in the market for a new horse, and for the first time in my life, have no clue what I want next.

I switched from the h/j and got serious about dressage when I got my wonderful schoolmaster 3 years ago. He is bombproof, schools up to the GP and has big, fancy gaits. He has taken me from a clueless training level rider to making my PSG debut this year. When he turns 20 in spring, we will be retiring him from competition and I look forward to just having fun with him, he is a blast!

I do love to show though, so I started the search for another horse. So far my only criteria is under 17 hands (i’m 5’3) and around 30k. I’ve been looking at ponies, horses, warmbloods, off breeds, young, old, green, schoolmasters… it’s quite overwhelming. I really need to narrow down my search. I’m also worried that nothing will really compare to my old guy, especially in my price range.

I suppose my ‘goal’ is to get my gold medal. Any advice on what path to take to get there??

[JackSprats_Mom]

I would say that in that price line you could get something already well started with great potential. My thought would be that you probably don’t want to buy green unbroken and spend the next 5-8 years getting back to PSG.

Off breeds are always a better deal for the money.

I think you need to work out if you want a hot horse or a calm one to start with, then level its competing at and go from there

[horsegirltv]

If your next goal is to achieve your USDF Gold Medal then you might want to look for a mature GP horse to help you reach it. They are out there in your price range and, as I’m sure you know, there will be maintenance along the way.

If you are in or and can put yourself in an area with a trainer who has a stable of FEI horses, you might be able to find a lease for a year on a GP horse to help your reach that goal. Everything is so dynamic in the sport horse world… you might find a free lease or someone wanting to lease with terms like $1000 per month for the lease + you retaining horse insurance for the year. That would knock out about 50% of your buyers budget but at the end of the year you would have hopefully achieved your Gold Medal and still have a nice $15k to put towards a young horse you might start from training level and school all the way up through GP!

Best of luck to you! Angelea

[MysticOakRanch]

[QUOTE=horsegirltv;8911385]
If your next goal is to achieve your USDF Gold Medal then you might want to look for a mature GP horse to help you reach it. They are out there in your price range and, as I’m sure you know, there will be maintenance along the way.

If you are in or and can put yourself in an area with a trainer who has a stable of FEI horses, you might be able to find a lease for a year on a GP horse to help your reach that goal. Everything is so dynamic in the sport horse world… you might find a free lease or someone wanting to lease with terms like $1000 per month for the lease + you retaining horse insurance for the year. That would knock out about 50% of your buyers budget but at the end of the year you would have hopefully achieved your Gold Medal and still have a nice $15k to put towards a young horse you might start from training level and school all the way up through GP!

Best of luck to you! Angelea[/QUOTE]

That kind of deal is almost impossible to find in the US. The only person I know who was able to lease an FEI horse, paid a monthly fee AND had to keep the horse in full training - with maintenance, that came out to about $2,500/month. We just don’t have many FEI horses available for lessons or lease in the US.

5 years ago, in the midst of the economic downturn, you might find a GP schoolmaster in that price range, and older horse who needed maintenance, but now? Prices are higher, market is picking up - those horses are just not so cheap anymore. Unless they are not sound, or so old, they really are in the “let down” phase of their career, a good mid-level schoolmaster, but not up to the GP work anymore.

I’d say, keep your options open, but look for a horse that is at least 3rd level - breed, color, unimportant. Go try horses - eventually you will click. Do let the sellers know you want an FEI prospect - but be aware many, many sellers think any horse with a big trot is an FEI prospect. If you have a trainer who has brought along several FEI horses - ask him/her to review videos, help with the decision.

Another option - if you are willing to take a risk - buy a well bred foal… And then use the rest of the money to take lessons or lease a horse - IF you can find a horse worth leasing.

You are lucky to already have a schoolmaster - that puts you in a really good position -you have learned a lot already from a horse that knew a lot! Now you have to decide whether to try to find another (hard with that budget if you are in the US), or buy something younger and bring it along.

[Scribbler]

[QUOTE=WannabeDQ;8911369]
Just like the title said, I’m in the market for a new horse, and for the first time in my life, have no clue what I want next.

I switched from the h/j and got serious about dressage when I got my wonderful schoolmaster 3 years ago. He is bombproof, schools up to the GP and has big, fancy gaits. He has taken me from a clueless training level rider to making my PSG debut this year. When he turns 20 in spring, we will be retiring him from competition and I look forward to just having fun with him, he is a blast!

I do love to show though, so I started the search for another horse. So far my only criteria is under 17 hands (i’m 5’3) and around 30k. I’ve been looking at ponies, horses, warmbloods, off breeds, young, old, green, schoolmasters… it’s quite overwhelming. I really need to narrow down my search. I’m also worried that nothing will really compare to my old guy, especially in my price range.

I suppose my ‘goal’ is to get my gold medal. Any advice on what path to take to get there?? [/QUOTE]

I would agree with the posters who say that if you have a clear goal to get your gold medals in a reasonable time frame, your best bet is another well-trained horse. Your success so far has demonstrated that you can ride, you can learn, you can compete, you can show and win, and you enjoy doing so. It hasn’t however shown that you can bring along a green or low-level horse, or even that you would want to, or enjoy it.

I see a lot of ammies get trapped in Permanent First Level, even with rather nice horses, because they buy an unschooled horse, and never manage to get it past the basics. The level of training your current horse has is exceptional, and most ammie riders never get near that level. You’ve been very lucky to have him to learn on!

Even with a very good coach and trainer, you are looking at a number of years to get a horse with the basics, up to the PSG level.

If you feel you have a knack for training and schooling, and the patience to go at the speed the horse needs, and can be perfectly happy staying out of the show ring for a few years, then buy a green horse or one with the basics in place, and prepare to go on a huge learning curve.

If you don’t feel that way, if you are going to feel frustrated and like you are being “left behind” while you spend several years training at home, then get another school master.

IME, training on dressage horses doesn’t go in nearly as smooth an upward curve as training in some other disciplines, because so much is being asked of them. People will run into road blocks with flying changes, for instance, which are relatively simple to teach to a hunter or a barrel racer. And if you buy a horse that someone has taken short cuts with to get it into the lower level show ring, then you will need to untrain some bad habits to progress onto upper level moves and collection.

[mountainhorse]

[QUOTE=WannabeDQ;8911369]
Just like the title said, I’m in the market for a new horse, and for the first time in my life, have no clue what I want next.

I switched from the h/j and got serious about dressage when I got my wonderful schoolmaster 3 years ago. He is bombproof, schools up to the GP and has big, fancy gaits. He has taken me from a clueless training level rider to making my PSG debut this year. When he turns 20 in spring, we will be retiring him from competition and I look forward to just having fun with him, he is a blast!

I do love to show though, so I started the search for another horse. So far my only criteria is under 17 hands (i’m 5’3) and around 30k. I’ve been looking at ponies, horses, warmbloods, off breeds, young, old, green, schoolmasters… it’s quite overwhelming. I really need to narrow down my search. I’m also worried that nothing will really compare to my old guy, especially in my price range.

I suppose my ‘goal’ is to get my gold medal. Any advice on what path to take to get there?? [/QUOTE]

Your post read very ‘unclear’ to me…if you were a friend or client of mine that came to me for advice and told me the above, I would suggest really defining what your goals are, long term, and go from there. “I suppose” indicates you are not sure, IMHO.
I would also recommend not ‘rushing’ into things if you are unsure, and perhaps search around for a GP schoolmaster to take lessons on, or try leasing or catching lessons on various types of Dressage horses at different levels of training (young horse, schoolmaster, pony, warmblood, off breed, baroque,…you get the idea) for a few months at a time for the next several months/year to get a feel for what you really ‘want’, then start your search with a clearer head.

Look at your goals in a timeline and financial standpoint as well. If you want to reach Grand Prix, how soon? Or does the timeline matter to you? What about financially? An older schoolmaster may get you there faster, but require more medical management. A young/unstarted horse will take years and years to get there, and then you have the cost of training/shows up the levels, etc…

I also bolded what what your ‘definite’ statements. You are excited to ‘play’ with your current schoolmaster, he is a blast to ride, you like to compete, and you are unsure of what you are looking for. Perhaps narrow down what you are going to do with your current guy and go from there. Your goals may adjust depending on what you do with him, or if you lease/sell him, your budget may change.

Regardless, good luck!

(ETA- If GP is a definite goal to you, I would suggest looking around for an upper level pony and seeing if you can lease one to try. With your height, you may just fall in love, and they tend to be closer to your price range in the US).

[2tempe]

Having been down this path, I do know that its hard to replace those schoolmasters!
When I retired mine (he was a TB) at 20, and after 8 or 9 PSG tests. We were ever so close to those 60’s needed for my silver, but missing the necessary collection. When shopping, I wanted something I could show PSG reasonably quickly, with enough talent to get the 60+ scores under an ammy rider.

What I did NOT want was another horse that was on the downward side of its career; when you retire one at 20, you don’t want to do it again in just a few years. So no 16 or 18 yr old FEI horse for me.

Getting your gold medal is HARD. (Did you get the bronze and silver with your old guy?). Lots of work, the right horse , good training and the alignment of the stars.

I have younger friends who were willing to buy young and train up. (not to mention they weren’t flush with the upfront cash to buy something further along). Yes its time, but its a journey and a learning experience.

You need to get more specific on a goal or two. I would think you also want a horse that makes you happy to ride. That is not true of every horse no matter their talent or bloodlines. And nothing will compare to the old guy, so don’t even expect it.

You don’t say where you are geographically so hard to know how your search area is as a horse market…

[Pipkin]

I also agree it might help to define your goals. Want to have fun doing a bit of everything? Want to train something yourself? Simply want to experience GP, or want to be competitive? Is this a near future goal or a long term goal?

If you really can’t decide, there’s no harm in going to view anything that is vaguely appropriate, and buy the personality you click with. It’s a big journey - you need a real partner! In my experience what really makes a dressage horse is their temperament and trainability.

That said, as a rider of an ‘off breed’ and avid OTTB fanatic, if I was aiming at GP I would probably get a warmblood. I have a TB and a dressage bred WB, the TB has taken years of serious, serious conditioning just to be nearly as balanced and uphill as the WB (that has been under saddle for four months!!) and it is just physically harder for him, which is a shame because he’s awesome. It’s amazingly rewarding to do dressage with an off breed, and I would do it again in a heartbeat, but I have neither a big budget nor GP aspirations! You have a healthy budget so for your competition goals I would choose the smoothest path…

I agree that Mountainhorse’s pony idea is a good one! You can get a lot of horse for not a lot of money if you can find something undersized. This is my new po - http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?502871-New-4yo-too-excited-have-to-share! - he was started by a pro GP rider and has really solid foundations under saddle and is a quiet ride (good on the trails too!) - I paid a lot less than your budget. We were offered him because we always have our horses for life and just offer a nice natural lifestyle for them, you sound like you are the same so it may be worth putting an advert somewhere. We advertised in British Dressage magazine, don’t know if you have a US version.

Have you thought about buying in continental europe? May get more bang for your buck!!

[RPM]

Do you want another horse like your horse? (e.g., big [under 17h] bay WB gelding)? Or do you want to try something totally different and go for a hot chestnut TB mare? Or a Connemara cross, or a Baroque breed, or a Paint Sport Horse?

Not saying your current guy is a big bay WB, just putting that in for contrast with the others.

[J-Lu]

Well, you will NEVER replace your current horse. Nobody ever replaces their current horse. You have to embrace your new horse and everything he/she has to offer!

If your goal is a Gold and your price is $30K, you’ll be looking at younger horses that you will bring through the ranks. And that can be a great experience! You can look at WBs and Baroque breeds in that price range. Also, German riding ponies and some Welsh lines and Welsh crosses. I’d hesitate to look at “off breeds” (QH, etc.) unless you encounter exceptional individuals, because while “off breeds” can be great dressage horses, most won’t get to GP. Clearly, individuals can.

It is ALWAYS a risk buying a non-GP horse in hopes of getting to GP. But if you are happy with scores in the 60-ish to 63-ish percent, very many well-conformed and well-trained horses can get there, and the odds are better that your youngster might get there, too. I disagree that you will find a “ready to ride” FEI schoolmaster who can take you to GP in that price range.

[Lord_Helpus]

I have just bought a dressage prospect (he is on his way here, even as I type!!!) and I know what $30k can buy you.

If you want to get back to FEI classes someday, $30k will buy you an incredible horse ---- who is 4 years old and has been under tack for 6 months… I know of one and would have died to buy her. But the budget was not there.

Instead, for $20k I found an incredible 3 year old who knocks your eyes out, but who has not even been backed. (The lady has another one just like the one I got — it was really hard deciding between the 2)

If your budget is limited, you can focus on talent or training. I chose ‘talent’ and am prepared to take the time to wind my way up through the levels. If you choose ‘training’ then be prepared to retire another horse in a couple of years.

[Daisyesq]

I just wanted to post that I love that your title says you “need” a horse. That’s great!

[Daisyesq]

I am in a similar boat as you!

I started serious dressage training 3 years ago on a 15 year old FEI horse. We are schooling PSG now, and we showed PSG once so far (for 59.5%, ugh).

When shopping for a dressage horse, I still think you want to be a competitive entry. I think when my schoolmaster retires, I would look either for:

(1) A dressage pony! Something powerful yet easy to sit and fun to ride at shows. (Does this actually exist? And if it does, would it be affordable for $30k? I don’t know)

(2) Leasing a gold medal contender for a season, which might cost you 10 to 15k for a year (in addition to board/training). You can probably find one in Wellington FL area this winter.

I do not want to train my own young horse up the levels, not just yet. I don’t have the talent, bravery, OR the ten years it would take.

I’d really want to achieve a Gold Medal first. That’s quite an accomplishment for any Ammy, and would give me confidence that I COULD train a dressage horse.

[2tempe]

Several references made in here to leasing a GP horse.
IMO, this is much easier said than done. If anyone knows of one, let me know, I have a friend who is looking…
Another friend was also looking; she has been loaned a horse from a friend. (IE this horse was not otherwise available). I’ve seen this in another situation as well. It is rare that a decent horse is advertised for lease.

If someone has an upper level horse that he/she would consider leasing, it usually is with the requirement that it be either in-barn or with a known-to-owner situation in full training.
Could you find one in Wellington? Maybe but not realistic to think you are going to ship it off to somewhere else unless your trainer knows that trainer and so on.
Another issue is that it takes a while for amateur to learn to ride the horse at the level and with the skill necessary to go down centerline.

[Obsidian_Fire]

Following…

as I am in a similar boat…

[Manni01]

I agree with J-Lu, no horse will ever replace your current horse. He sounds like a very nice guy. But you still have him and can enjoy him and learn from him.
I think it depends on your situation.
Have you ever started a young horse before??
Do you have a trainer who did it and who you trust? Do you have the horse at your place? do you board??

IF you have a trainer experienced with young horses who you trust and who you board with, I would get a nice young horse for the money.
It is a lot of fun to advance with a nice young horse up the levels.

If you are not experienced with your horses and don’t have a reliable trainer, go for an older, less fancy but more experienced horse. Its safer for everybody and will get you more for your money.

Good luck with your horse search!!

[WannabeDQ]

Thank you all for taking the time to respond.

I’ve been reading all the posts and it has been very helpful. Although I’m still not sure what I am going to do, I think I have identified the problem. I feel like i’m at a weird in between point where although I’ve gone up the levels, I still haven’t been doing this for that long. I am not confident that I have the dressage skill set to do a young horse justice at this point, even though with my budget that seems to be the easiest choice. I have started babies before, but for the hunter ring. I am still very much in the learning phase when it comes to dressage. I have seen PSG/I1 schoolmasters for sale or lease but I already have that, so not sure how much sense it makes to take on another. GP schoolmasters in my price range don’t exist, although that would be nice! You have all made very good points though and I have a lot to think about.

[Pipkin]

I agree - I think your next step probably isn’t a schoolmaster, you’ve had that - but it’s difficult to get something knocking at PSG 60% for your budget, so you need to be inventive! Could you buy a horse that needs polishing for 10kish and then spend the remaining 20k on professional schooling? Here that would get you about 18 months of full board and training, which could be enough - not to get the horse to PSG, but to put enough foundations in place to allow you to do that.

[Dressagelvr]

If you want to get your gold, your best bet is with a horse you know can score well at the shows. That alone eliminates a lot of horses on the market.

My recommendation is that you wait and save up for a larger budget. $30,000 isn’t going to buy you anything you don’t already own now.

While you’re saving up, keep riding the U/L stuff on your guy. And try to find other U/L horses to take lessons on. When I was coming up, I had great luck with other boarders allowing me to ride their horses under trainer supervision. I cannot even begin to explain how helpful that was.

Those years alone took me from learning the aides, to knowing the aides, to being able to train them.

Ride as many as you can, as often as you can under the direction of an excellent professional. That is the only way to real success as a rider, IMO.

Be patient. One lifetime isn’t enough!

[outerbanks77]

[QUOTE=WannabeDQ;8913061]
Thank you all for taking the time to respond.

I’ve been reading all the posts and it has been very helpful. Although I’m still not sure what I am going to do, I think I have identified the problem. I feel like i’m at a weird in between point where although I’ve gone up the levels, I still haven’t been doing this for that long. I am not confident that I have the dressage skill set to do a young horse justice at this point, even though with my budget that seems to be the easiest choice. I have started babies before, but for the hunter ring. I am still very much in the learning phase when it comes to dressage. I have seen PSG/I1 schoolmasters for sale or lease but I already have that, so not sure how much sense it makes to take on another. GP schoolmasters in my price range don’t exist, although that would be nice! You have all made very good points though and I have a lot to think about.[/QUOTE]

How about getting a less fancy horse that is solid with the U/S basics and spending some time learning to train him up through the lower levels? I’m thinking a nice, but sub-$10K horse, so you can see how it goes, if you enjoy the training process without being all-in with a $30K youngster you can’t afford to make any mistakes on. Put your remaining $20K aside and see how things go. You might be able to turn that $10K horse into a $20K horse, or you might decide you love it and want to keep it, or you’ll put some training on it, learn some things, and sell it for about what you paid, or a little more.