No sweat. 
1 Like
In my experience, if a horse is being ridden and doing his intended job and staying sound, especially for a year, then there is no reason to think that anything on a PPE would preclude the horse from continuing to do the job.
However, you put the word fine in quotes and to me that means maybe he hasn’t been fine. Has he been unsound during your lease? A year of doing what you want him to do is a pretty good chunk of time to get a feel for what maintenance he needs and how he can hold up to the work. Regardless of what the PPE says, if he has been holding up to the work then I would be inclined to move forward with the purchase. If he has not been sound and is not holding up to the work then he is probably not a good match for you going forward.
6 Likes
How long have you been leasing? Were you unaware that the July injections were done? Were they done without your knowledge by the owner?
You’ve been showing the horse for a year and everything except the 2022 suspensory should have been in that period of time?
3 Likes
To me that sounds like this horse is serviceably sound for what you want. Yes, he needs maintenance and will likely have his off days, but don’t most of us, especially as we age?
You can always get a second opinion. You can attempt to renegotiate the deal with the owner - maybe they’d be amenable to knocking a bit off the price if the suggested maintenance and corrective shoeing are new. But also if you lowball them, they may just walk away. And from what you have said, I don’t think there are any major findings in this PPE.
But the bottom line is your own vet says he can do what you want. Buying a horse is risky - they are always looking for ways to injure themselves, so you just need to figure out if you are okay with the price and the maintenance and the risk of a horse being a horse
17 Likes
What is the x-ray situation? You didn’t take any? I would not buy without taking x-rays, otherwise you’re just guessing. And so is the vet, if they claimed that the horse was not sound but could still do the job. And could do the job for how long? This all sounds weird to me.
If there were x-rays, I assume you would have said so when listing the PPE results. I don’t consider a jog with flexions a PPE, certainly not for a $100k, unless it’s an aborted one when the flexions are so bad you stop and say no, which you don’t seem to be doing. So if you are considering buying, x-ray the horse, and consider having a different vet do it.
5 Likes
What were the stifles injected with? Stifle issues scare me. They aren’t as forgiving as other joints and the “gold standard” injections for stifles are pricey. At the very least I would find out what was going on with those joints, particularly if your light work load is still causing issues for him.
Good luck with your choice.
2 Likes
I’m confused. Have you been riding him for a year now while you had him on lease? But now you think he’s not sound because he flexed off and he has a history of some injuries?
If you think he’s not sound, send him back and don’t buy him.
But what was the year long lease for if not for you to decide if you liked him and if he could stay sound for your purpose. And the answer to both of those questions is “yes.”
I’m just confused why you bothered doing a lease to buy on a horse with a vet issue you knew would bother you and why you didn’t do a PPE before riding him for a full year?
17 Likes
I did NOT do a PPE before I started the lease. As I said in my original post, I regret that. I also mentioned im an ignorant ammy so I’m not an expert in all of this.
I was not aware there were any issues when I signed the lease.
Thank you for your reply. This is helpful. Appreciate it!
I’ve leased the horse for coming up on one year. I’ve done one small rated show.
I did not do a PPE before the lease (as I said in my
Post, I regret that). The only issue that has come up while I’ve been leasing was in July this year.
If you had had these same PPE results at the start of the lease? Would you buy or pass?
If the year of using the horse and liking it doesn’t impact your assessment then do the same thing you’d have done at the beginning.
I’m just confused why you bothered to lease this horse if him being sound enough for your use wasn’t going to impact your analysis of whether to buy. Usually the point of such a long lease is for you to decide if you like the horse and if it will hold up. Yet you don’t seem very swayed by either. So then what was the point?
Is there a professional involved in the mix on your behalf?
11 Likes
It’s now September 2024… wasn’t everything that happened from roughly September 2023 until now on your watch and during your lease term? Wasn’t this vet work you did?
I’m clearly not understanding something about the situation here because a lot of this doesn’t make sense?!
10 Likes
No, the dates are listed in my original post. Everything happened before me except for the July 2024 instance.
I’d probably finish the transaction (buy him). There are very, very few sound, broke show horses going around without maintenance. He’s working for you and you like him. Buy him.
12 Likes
Did vet say horse is lame/not sound but can still do the job? Or did vet say horse is serviceably sound?
What are your goals for this horse? How much has he campaigned in the past? Is he unsound before flexions, and even worse after flexions? What’s his current work level?
That quantity of injections on a 12yo would be too much for me, but I am not nor will I likely ever be competing at A/AA shows or have a horse in a program that does. I’m given to understand that it’s not atypical for a horse that’s showing a lot and/or in the typical high-level H/J program with an extensive show history, even if he’s not showing much now. What are his living conditions like? Is he living more or less in a box stall with limited turnout, or where turnout is something like a 24x24 pen? Or is he able to get out and move in a larger space? I’d expect more creakiness from a horse that lives mostly in a stall than I would in a horse on 18/6 turnout, for instance.
Would you be comfortable sharing the PPE report with identifying info redacted? That may get you more specific advice than what you’re getting.
ETA: Also, what’s your relationship to the seller? And the vet’s relationship to the seller? Do you have a trainer involved, and if so, what’s their relationship to all parties? Are they encouraging the purchase or suggesting you look elsewhere?
ETA x2: I don’t feel like I have enough information to say for sure, but I also wanted to add that I think it’s entirely possible a horse that flexes like this and needs this amount of maintenance is a $100k horse. Any animal that can lay down a competitive trip in an A/AA junior hunter round, regardless of how much maintenance and magic potions it needs to get there, is likely worth that or more.
11 Likes
I think this is very valid point.
14 Likes
I would agree with this, OP. You note you are newer to horse ownership, but as someone who’s owned for 20+ years, it is rare to find a mid aged (12-16y) horse jumping 3’ that doesn’t have SOME history of maintenance needed. The job is just hard on most of them. His $100k price tag is likely much more of a reflection of his quality, safety, ability, and competitiveness. Most mid teens 3’ horses you will look at WILL have something show up on a PPE. That’s just how it goes with a horse that’s been campaigned and likely shown for 6+ years at a demanding height. If it’s not this one, the next one you look at will more likely than not need some semblance of maintenance injections at SOME point in his competitive life.
You need to decide if the recommended maintenance program is something you’re willing to keep up to keep him comfortable for the job. You have had him for a year and know him and sounds like he has done the job for you for a year and - if you love him and are OK spending the money on the program, buy him. If you’re not, walk and find something else. There are plenty of $100k amateur horses out there and one may be a little more in your comfort zone vet-work wise!
6 Likes
You don’t give enough info to make a decision or guide you in making an informed one.
IMO since you stated you are new at this, do you trust your trainer to guide you or not? I’m assuming you feel like you should get a discount on his purchase price based on PPE and with those “terrible” finding horse should just be given to you. Because who else would want a serviceably sound 3’ horse capable of rated shows. The answer is every older Ammy on this planet.
Horse is likely very much worth his purchase price.
6 Likes
This whole thing is bizarre.
Horse is ok, until this one-year-after PPE. Now the horse is lame.
Your trainer didn’t mention your horse is lame to you? Your friends? You didn’t notice? You didn’t get rung out at your show? The horse didn’t start refusing fences and acting weird when asked to work?
If no one noticed, he’s likely more than sound enough to do the job you want him to do. If you’re looking to get a discount, good luck. If you’re looking to reneg on the purchase, that’s your prerogative. If you’re exceptionally nervous you can ask the owners if you can do another 6 month-1 year lease (for an additional fee, obviously) while you make up your mind.
I’d like to stress - horses don’t go from sound to lame due to a PPE, particularly a PPE after you’ve been riding the horse for a year. Either you have the world’s worst support team around you that didn’t see it or you are misinterpreting the PPE.
32 Likes
The way I read it (and I could be very wrong), the OP has been leasing the horse for about a year. No PPE of any type was done at the start of the arrangement.
It is time for the OP to decide if they are going to buy the horse and did a PPE now.
6 Likes
