Need opinion on PPE

[findeight]

Some terminology issues here…vets do not proclaim sound or unsound. They deem them “suitable for intended purpose at this time” or “ not suitable for intended purpose at this time”.

Sounds like OPs intended purpose is a couple of 3’ shows a year, assume some lessons and prep for this, and cannot afford more. Least that is what I glean from what OP has specifically said.

Vet has communicated this horse is suitable for this purpose at this time. That does not mean “sound”, none of them are “sound” at 12 with a performance career. But they can be suitable for a lighter job which I think is what they mean about this horse.

If OP can afford the purchase price, has a guaranteed place to park him for the next 15 years should he become unable to continue even the light work? And afford another horse to ride while he heals or retires? No reason not to proceed with the purchase.

For me, this was never a question as I could only afford one good horse at a time and saw the last one through retirement without replacing it.

Might suggest a second opinion from a neutral vet who has no relationship with seller or trainer. Images can be easily transmitted to specialists these days, no need to haul to a clinic or pay a farm call.

Me? I would want some current, as in now, imaging on that suspensory injury, those are notorious for incomplete healing or reinjury, especially if they were a repeat of even earlier issue. Age related arthritic changes and job related tread wear are unavoidable but can be managed…but there is a cost and that has to figure in to any decision to purchase.

[Amberley]

@findeight

none of them are “sound” at 12 with a performance career.

Strong disagree. Most horses are sound at 12.

[findeight]

Well, we can agree to disagree on that based on our sample size and specifics. Many middle aged horses with years of continuous competition careers show their mileage. IME.

[Rel6]

I can’t wrap my mind around anyone spending that money on a horse! But it almost seems more pragmatic to spend it on something because you enjoy riding it every day, as opposed to wanting to be the best at wood stick jumping. (And I say that as someone who really enjoys winning my wood stick jumping contests!)

[NoSuchPerson]

@Rel6

But it almost seems more pragmatic to spend it on something because you enjoy riding it every day, as opposed to wanting to be the best at wood stick jumping.

My point is that if what you care about is having a horse that you enjoy riding every day and you don’t care about being “the best at wood stick jumping,” you don’t need to spend six-figures.

My underlying concern, I guess, was whether the OP, who said she was an ammy buying her first horse, understood that she didn’t need to spend 6 figures to get a horse that met her needs but chose to anyway, or if she had been led by someone to believe that 6 figures was necessary to purchase a well-trained horse that she could enjoy riding every day.

@Rel6

I can’t wrap my mind around anyone spending that money on a horse!

Hey, if you’ve got it, I can’t imagine spending it on anything better than a horse.

[Rel6]

@NoSuchPerson

My point is that if what you care about is having a horse that you enjoy riding every day and you don’t care about being “the best at wood stick jumping,” you don’t need to spend six-figures.

My underlying concern, I guess, was whether the OP, who said she was an ammy buying her first horse, understood that she didn’t need to spend 6 figures to get a horse that met her needs but chose to anyway, or if she had been led by someone to believe that 6 figures was necessary to purchase a well-trained horse that she could enjoy riding every day.

I totally get your second point, for sure, and a valid concern. I interpreted it as she has that budget, and the horse she really liked was in that budget. A lot of what can make a horse worth 6 figures in the show ring can also make them incredibly fun to ride outside of the show ring too (not always, of course!).

[EmilyM]

1.5 on flexions is definitely not a deal killer. 2.5 depending where it is warrants further investigation for sure. He did not trot sound without flexions as well?

I agree with others that say you have had a year and maintained him to be serviceably sound for his job. His maintenance schedule doesn’t bother me, but I’m pretty aggressive with maintenance, and I inject when they flex a 1-1.5 if they have a known weakness that they will eventually be more sore. I prefer to be ahead than behind and I don’t use steroids at all. Also, did the injections he had include steroids or did you do pro stride which is more therapeutic and can last longer?

One thing not addressed in this thread is whether you are able to retire this horse when he is no longer serviceably sound which could be 1 year or 10 years who knows. have you thought about what happens when you are ready for the next horse (i.e. your ability outgrows his)? What if you have a money crunch? can you retire him? he is likely to be less saleable as you see from your own reservations. Probably a candidate to lease out. Just something to think about.

[onlyTBmares]

A big beautiful bascule, perfect lead change, big floaty trot, rhythmic canter with plenty of go, good brakes lots of adjustability, easy to find the jumps on, brave, consistent…all add $$$ and make a horse very much fun. It’s the kind of horse that can cheer you up after a crappy day in the office

[mmeqcenter]

I’ll never understand how people keep insisting their lease horse is “not sound” while they’re continuing to ride and show it. I had a client’s horse returned using the same logic. They told me he was lame on the PPE, but then continued to show it many times at WEC Ocala before returning him. Why are you riding, jumping, showing, a horse you think is lame??

If you actually think the horse is lame, return it to the owner and search for another horse.
If the horse simply needs maintenance to keep going around 3’+, then he could easily still be a $100k horse. Depends on area and quality. Also depends on how much you love him. A horse that you know you work really well with, is incredibly safe and still gets you in the ribbons at rated shows at 3’, those are pretty priceless.

[Bristol_Bay]

I have seen so many of these types of horses. They suffer from what I call the Curse of the Schoolmaster.

Horses like these are good tempered, stoic, well-schooled packers . They earn their owner/riders ribbons and accolades, and when they break down, they are passed along as low-level mounts or school horses, as long as they can limp around a cross rail course. They never get to retire.

There’s one at my barn right now. Absolutely class horse, eq champion, gorgeous, but he inconveniently developed ringbone and landed as a school horse. His current owners (I have no idea who they are) feel they owe him nothing. If he can’t earn his keep in the show ring, well…

OP, if you can afford to give this horse a soft landing, if you love him and are comfortable retiring him for life, then do it. Your rewards may not be financial, but they will be great.

[Demerara_Stables]

@mmeqcenter

I’ll never understand how people keep insisting their lease horse is “not sound” while they’re continuing to ride and show it.

This.

[mfglickman]

True, but the maintenance costs will still be there, if they’re not yet they should be to keep the horse going nicely.

OP if you like this horse and your budget is there and the horse can continue to do the job with maintenance injections and shoeing, then why not? If you don’t want him, let the next person lease/purchase and you can find something that suits you better.

[Tini_Sea_Soldier1]

There’s some backstory missing here. He’s 12… how long has he been in the show ring? 5-7 years of consistent training and showing before you had him will take some toll on a performance horse’s body. Eq horses can be drilled too, so if it was a prior eq horse, expect that it’s been a bit of a veteran.

I look at it somewhat like a used car… you’re not buying new… there might be some small dinks and dents, but as long as the bumper isn’t falling off, I’m realistic about what I’m getting.

You need to be realistic about your goals. If you’re looking to jump around 3’ once or twice a year, then most horses can be cobbled together to do the job. It sounds like you’re not going to be jumping 3’ at home daily… or showing 26 weeks out of the year, so different maintenance need and program. That being said, I’d keep this one for myself and not be half-leasing or sending this one off with anyone else. Keep the work light and you might be able to keep this one going for quite a few years. Pound this one and those 1.5s could turn into 2.5s all around.

At the end of the day, if you love this one… and you want a few years of happiness, then decide if it’s worth to reinvent the wheel and start all over again, or if you’d rather pay for another vetting from a different vet to get a different perspective. Even if it’s another 2-3K to get another perspective, it may give you that second opinion that allows you to truly decide whether to go for it or walk away, which is money well-spent when you’re talking about dropping another 5 figures.

[Demerara_Stables]

I’ll just throw one other thing out there, and correct me if I’m wrong OP, But you say that you can afford to purchase this horse but you can’t afford to show more than once a year or maybe a couple of times a year? If this horse does require maintenance, it can cost as much as a rated show each month, depending on the shoeing and supplements and vet bills. I’m not sure if you’ve already been paying for his maintenance, but If you do decide to move forward, it would be a good idea to get an estimate from your regular vet of the cost for this horse’s, maintenance, yearly or even monthly. Same goes for your farrier and body worker if you use one.

[foursocks]

This is exactly what I am thinking. Maintaining a horse as it ages is generally somewhat expensive, but this one seems like he might be very expensive out of the box. If you can only afford to show once a year at a lower level show this might not be the horse for you, because even if he doesn’t re-injure himself the regular maintenance is going to add up quickly.

It seems to me that you may want to discuss things more with the vet and educate yourself more on what is going on with the horse right now. But if the vet’s opinion is that he is not currently sound and NEVER WILL BE, why would you buy him? If you still want him because you love him, why would you buy him as a riding horse? I understand falling in love with a horse, but I do not understand paying so much money you can’t afford to show more than once a year AND buying an unsound horse as a riding horse.

Regardless, a 12 year old that isn’t a former GP horse or something super-high level like that with lots of issues already would be a red flag to me, and at the very least I would absolutely expect there to be some heavy ongoing costs associated with it.

[trubandloki]

The OP says they can only afford to show once a year - that might mean different things to different people.

It might mean that they accept the cost of maintenance and because of the board, lessons and maintenance costs, most of their entertainment money that they have allotted for this hobby is used up.

It might also mean that they are so busy that they can not afford more time off to do more shows.

I would not assume the financial status of the OP.

[Demerara_Stables]

@trubandloki

The OP says they can only afford to show once a year - that might mean different things to different people.

It might mean that they accept the cost of maintenance and because of the board, lessons and maintenance costs, most of their entertainment money that they have allotted for this hobby is used up.

It might also mean that they are so busy that they can not afford more time off to do more shows.

I would not assume the financial status of the OP.

For sure, which is why I stated up front that I didn’t know the financial situation (and I certainly don’t mean that the OP should explain that to us).

I think it’s prudent to alert the OP to the possible costs of maintenance on a horse that, by all evidence we have so far, probably needs a fair amount of it, especially when she stated:

@Ahs483

I’m not an expert in all of this.

@Ahs483

Yes maintenance and corrective shoeing.

@Ahs483

I can’t afford to show that often (as of right now)

[sassy]

Yeah I don’t get why everyone is so hung up on the fact that it’s a $100k horse. That’s at least the going rate for a nice 3’ horse. I know people will say there are exceptions, but not very many!

It’s totally up to OP whether she wants to take regular lessons and show it once a year, or show it every other weekend. I know lots of amateurs with $$$$ horses that only show a few times, and some not at all. Just because she doesn’t want to campaign doesn’t mean she needs to look for a $15,000 OTTB or hony…

Edit to add: if she’s leased it for a year I’d also think it’s safe to assume she understands the monthly costs and veterinary bills associated with it… you guys aren’t giving OP much credit!

[foursocks]

Look, I don’t care what people spend on their horses or what they choose to do with them (although I will stand by my question of why buy-to-ride an unsound horse, because that seems, you know…wrong). The OP says several times they are not at all experienced and we all know that the horse industry can be pretty brutal to newcomers.

I’m not trying to be patronizing or condescending (and I apologize, OP, if my comment came across like that), nor do I think OP needs to spend their money differently, such as get a lower-quality horse and show more. Again, I don’t care about that, but there is an imbalance with a large-ticket horse that has been deemed lame now and always by a vet. I wouldn’t buy that horse for anything but retirement, at any price. This doesn’t seem like a great setup, as it has been presented on this thread, for long term (or even short term) happiness for the OP.

ETA: the OP came on here with obvious misgivings and questions, so these are responses to that ask. It isn’t like they came on to us a happy story about their soon-to-be new horse and everyone trashed it.

[findeight]

Right now, we do not know what OP knows or does not know, not enough information. Some leases have the person leasing pay all the vet/farrier/extras, Some leases the owner of the horse plans to pay all maintenance vet bills and it’s rolled into the lease fee, especially if owner is the person leasing’s trainer or another client of trainer.

All we know is it is a first horse and she has a lease with option to purchase coming due. She has used horse with no issues. Other then that, no specifics.