Need Saddle Recommendations (English Rider Going Western) - Link to photos in OP

[Ceylon_Star]

I know very little about western saddle fit, despite having read tons of information online, so I could use some help with this one.

I’m looking at getting my cob a new western saddle. Neither of us like the Wintec I had originally had for him (it was an older Wintec and seemed to be made of nylon-backed craft foam rather than the plastic leather or equisuede of newer saddles. I liked the feel of the material but no longer feel right in the shape), so I have sold it to a friend. I don’t know much about it other than it measured 7" from concho to concho across the front, was wider than a semi QHB Big Horn cordura saddle I had tried on him before getting the Wintec second hand, but narrower than a draft tree Wintec I also tried (because the Big Horn was too narrow). He takes a wide or extra wide treed english saddle, if that helps?

He is short backed and mutton withered, has wide shoulders and a very forward girth groove. A 30x30" pad is a bit on the long side for him - a 28"L pad would be more ideal but are hard to find wide enough. I’m not sure if I need a round skirt or not, but the square skirt of the Wintec seemed to sit fairly well (but of course I was an idiot and never measured the length…) http://s917.photobucket.com/user/ShayneBear/media/Just%20Java/DSCN2809.jpg.html?sort=3&o=160

I think I need a 15.5 seat. The Wintec was a 16 (if I measured correctly) and it was a bit on the big side so I didn’t feel the most secure unless I had a seat saver. I comfortably fit my 17.5" All Purpose Collegiate and my 17" Passier Dressage, and have been taught that the english to western seat conversion is english size minus 2".

I know that I prefer a harder saddle. I feel like I ride my best in my pancake of a 40 year old Passier. Newer saddles with padded seats (and flaps, in the case of english saddles) make me feel like I can’t communicate with my horse effectively, or feel him correctly. I am not opposed to something with a wee bit of padding, but I don’t want to feel like I’m riding on a cushion if you know what I mean.

A few things have been suggested to me as far as things to try for the cob: an arab treed Crates (apparently they are the best for short backs with wide shoulders and low withers), a draft tree Big Horn, or most brands in a regular QHB tree. Thoughts?

I dislike the feel of barrel saddles (from what I have tried), and I don’t want something with a ton of silver. A half decent, multipurpose saddle would do well I think. I would like to dabble in reining one day, but for the most part I will be trail riding and bum-fumbling in the ring. I rode in a friend’s Western Rawhide equitation saddle and HATED the feel of it (the swell seemed to be the wrong angle to accommodate my thicker thighs, despite the seat being a bit on the big side, and it seemed to have a really narrow twist to it that left my crotch feeling sore). Another friend has a Circle Y (no idea on what style it is, I’m thinking an equitation or really basic pleasure saddle) and it fits me half decently but is too narrow for my guy. I LOVED the Les Ertman custom ranch saddle I rode in (belongs to a former barn manager for her cowhorse) but can never in a million years afford one even if I saved for the rest of my life :lol:

I don’t currently have a budget in mind, and am happy as a clam to go with something older/well used if there is a specific model that I should look out for that will likely work well for my us. I’m also happy to save up for something brand new if there are newer models that would work better.

As I said I really don’t know much about western saddles, other than what I’ve sat in to know what felt good or not. I don’t really know where to start as far as tree sizing (other than draft bars are too big and semi are too narrow, but I don’t know if QHB or FQHB is the way to go because nobody can tell me if theirs are FQHB or QHB except for the owner of the custom Les Ertman).

Thank you for any help you can offer!

EDIT: Link to photos of his back. Will try to get better top views tomorrow when I take out a taller step stool. https://www.facebook.com/ShayneBear91/media_set?set=a.831790893539551.1073741834.100001259450060&type=1&ref=notif&notif_t=like

[Luseride]

You probably need a 15 or a 15.5, depending on the style of saddle.

I love my Dakota barrel saddle. It is a mid range quality, almost twenty years old, gets used almost every day, and is still in good shape. It fits most of my horses which is one reason it gets used so much.

In my experience the lower end saddles are narrow and do not fit well.

Very old Simco saddles are nice but the newer ones not so much. I also like Billy Cook but only the ones that have Sulpher, Oklahoma on them.

[DressageFancy]

How deep the seat is will make a difference but I think most 15" pleasure seats will fit you. Barrel saddles are deeper and in those you would need the 15 1/2". I like an ‘A fork’ pleasure simply because the seat of those fit me best. Mostly you just have to sit in a bunch of different seats until you find one that you are comfortable in. As far as being able to “feel/communicate” with your horse you won’t get as much from any western saddle as you do your english saddles because of the amount of saddle between you and the horse. The combo leather/cordura saddles (Fabtron, Bighorn) do give a little more feel. As for fitting your horse, you might try looking into the Circle Y park and trail saddles.

[Obsidian_Fire]

If you can afford a custom saddle I recommend John Fallis in Wilder, ID. I have 2 of his saddles and they ride nice. Send wither tracings or something so you make sure you get the right fit.
I had a horse similar to yours conformationally. I will tell you fitting him western was difficult. He was much happier english.
Have you considered trying an Aussie saddle instead? Might give you the best of both worlds.

[KIloBright]

First, get a western saddle that allows close contact and free leg movement, as all the better made performance saddles today do
There are sites that go into tree types to fit certain horses, breed and conformation wise, taking into account many facets of the tree itself, beyond bar width and angle, but how that bar is shaped to fit along the entire length of that horse`s back
I have one horse that I trail ride, who has a similar conformation to yours, far as being stout and mutton withered
I ride her in my balance ride saddle, which features close contact. In fact, just got back from an elk hunt, and rode her up and down many steep climbs without a problem.
I do use aback cinch, done up well and a breast collar .

[NoSuchPerson]

Go to this web site:

http://www.horsesaddleshop.com/

Scroll down to the bottom and click on “Explore our Help Center.” There is a lot of info there on saddle fitting and they also have gullet templates that you can print out, cut out, and try on your horse.

I’ve never contacted customer service there, but I know a couple of people have posted here in the past that they got a lot of help selecting a saddle from customer service there.

[KIloBright]

Here is a good link on western saddle trees and fit. Great to measure gullet, but you also need the right twist, bar angle, length, flare, etc, to have that tree fit the entire back

http://saddlemakers.org/id193.htm

Far as custom fit, maybe a good deal if you ride one horse, and that horse is in a constant weight and shape year around, as that fit is only a moment in time, far as condition and shape of that horse, that can change throughout the year.
Since I ride many different horses, I have saddles that are well made, and fit the general conformation of those horses
Works for trainers also, as trainers certainly can’t get a custom made saddle for every horse they ride, nor could I for the yearly foal crops that we raised, when they became of riding age!

[Ceylon_Star]

I should explain the “feel/contact” comment a bit better. I rode a friend’s gelding yesterday and she has a VERY padded seat. It felt like I was sitting a good 6-8 inches above the horse’s back, and like my knees were the part of my leg in contact with the horse where my thighs should have been. Compare this to the harder seat of my other friend’s Circle Y, which makes me feel like I’m right where I should be on the horse, rather than bumped up with pillows, and lets me actually have a horse between my legs the way it should be. If that makes any sense? I very well may have just made it more confusing, haha!

I have tried a few Aussies and they just don’t fit me right. In order to not feel trapped by the blocks (bucking rolls?) I need such a large seat that I end up swimming in it. Not comfy

I already know I’ll be needing to use a breastcollar on him - he needs one for english if he wears a jumping saddle (the more forward points tend to make the saddle slip back when his big shoulders work under them. The saddle does fit, but dressage saddles with the straighter/more vertical points sit behind those shoulders so don’t slip back the same way. The rest of the saddle fit is the same, other than the darn tree points! I LOVE him and his beefy build but boy do they make fitting anything a giant pain in the rump). I used one with the Wintec too. I didn’t use a rear cinch though - couldn’t find one that matched the saddle, haha.

I’ll check out that link, thanks NoSuchPerson

[PeanutButterPony]

If you don’t mind synthetic the Fabtron lady trail saddle is a saddle you forget is there it’s so simple…it’s not an equitation bucket seat nor is it too padded. If you want leather a rocking r ( from alabama) Reiner or trail saddle might be to your liking. They may be found at horse saddleshop. Com

[KIloBright]

![](f you ride with a western saddle and use a breast collar, esp in mountains, you should also use a rear cinch, and in fact you will have outfitters and others that use horses extensively in rough country, tell you that if you ride with a loose cinch, make it your front one.
The back cinch not only helps to hold that saddle in place, but stabilizes that saddle , so you don’t get that back and forth slight movement over the loins,
which will sore a horse
I don’t use padded seats, and often ride all day in the mountains, and in fact, here are some pics from a trip afew days ago.
My saddle is on my horse that has mutton withers, yet she carried me for several days in a row, on long fairly tough rides and never got sore
I’ve also included another picture that shows as to how that saddle is rigged to allow close contact The saddle is 30 years old, and still in great shape, and I use it almost daily, riding various horses, except during the worst time in winter
On m y 14.2hh mutton wither horse

[IMG]http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/KiloBright/trail%20riding/Carmendawn_zpsf4abc1e2.jpg)

[IMG]http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/KiloBright/trail%20riding/CARMENeLK.jpg)

On my 16hh show horse
[IMG]http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/KiloBright/cHARLIEANDRUBIXRIVER_zpscebd6c96.jpg)

[IMG]http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/KiloBright/CharliebalanceRide2_zps6a17f90f.jpg)

On my other show horse, at home, showing how that balance ride saddle is rigged
[IMG]http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/KiloBright/balanceridesaddle2.jpg)

[Ceylon_Star]

[QUOTE=K![](loBright;7836059]
If you ride with a western saddle and use a breast collar, esp in mountains, you should also use a rear cinch, and in fact you will have outfitters and others that use horses extensively in rough country, tell you that if you ride with a loose cinch, make it your front one.
The back cinch not only helps to hold that saddle in place, but stabilizes that saddle , so you don’t get that back and forth slight movement over the loins,
which will sore a horse
I don’t use padded seats, and often ride all day in the mountains, and in fact, here are some pics from a trip afew days ago.
My saddle is on my horse that has mutton withers, yet she carried me for several days in a row, on long fairly tough rides and never got sore
I’ve also included another picture that shows as to how that saddle is rigged to allow close contact The saddle is 30 years old, and still in great shape, and I use it almost daily, riding various horses, except during the worst time in winter
On m y 14.2hh mutton wither horse

[IMG]http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/KiloBright/trail%20riding/Carmendawn_zpsf4abc1e2.jpg)

[IMG]http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/KiloBright/trail%20riding/CARMENeLK.jpg)

On my 16hh show horse
[IMG]http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/KiloBright/cHARLIEANDRUBIXRIVER_zpscebd6c96.jpg)

[IMG]http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/KiloBright/CharliebalanceRide2_zps6a17f90f.jpg)

On my other show horse, at home, showing how that balance ride saddle is rigged
[IMG]http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/KiloBright/balanceridesaddle2.jpg)[/QUOTE]

Thanks a lot! I had heard that a rear cinch is pretty much essential for riding anywhere other than the flattest terrain, which makes sense when I think about it.

Judging by the pictures, your saddle is similar to what I feel most comfortable in. That’s the Balance Ride?

Here is a local Simco I’ve sent an email about. The friend who sent me the link says that the owner used the saddle on a super short backed Canadian with a similar build to my morgan/draft. http://www.usedvictoria.com/classified-ad/Western-saddle_23391985

I’ve also sent an email to someone who is selling a Big Horn Pioneer that had been for her Haflinger. The ad has no pictures, but judging by Google Images, they’re nice looking saddles.

What thoughts do you more experienced folk have about the two? The Big Horn is going for $650 or best offer, and the Simco for $400. Assuming the Big Horn is in good shape, and the Simco is as shown in the ad, are these fair prices to pay or should I be looking to make another offer?

Thanks a bunch for the help! Once I get us a new saddle I can get into some lessons with the owner of the barn we’re moving to! Yay!

[craz4crtrs]

The Simco doesn’t look very wide. So many people measure at the conchos and then say it’s a wide 7 in gullet. That picture looks like the saddle is not wide. Big Horn Haflinger trees are really wide. I would not do the Simco unless you can try in on and ride in it. The Balanced Ride saddles may not be wide enough. My friend has one she bought Years ago. Not wide enough for her wide qh. It was the widest tree they had in stock. Also pretty expensive for an new one.

If your horse is a cob with big shoulders looks at the Courts Miss Rodeo America. I have one, my sis in law has one and when put this model on big shouldered horses, owners are amazed how they fit. Tons of flair in the shoulders.

[craz4crtrs]

Ok, I am going to start over after looking at the pictures. You have a big horse that has a broad back with noticeable withers. The Simco will not fit with wither clearance from the look of the gullet height. I don’t like how either of those two saddle fit in those pictures.

First, download those templates from horse saddle shop and see what tree size you need to start with. Cut out the templates on card stock or even light cardboard. Place the upper part of the template two fingers behind the shoulder blade. That is further back than you think. See which template fits the best. I doubt it is the draft tree, maybe full bars, but it may actually be the medium tree.

Can you take pictures of or do you have pictures of this horses bare back from the side and down the back from the rear.

I would also look at some decent quality barrel saddles for the wither clearance, flare in the shoulders and short skirts. He had a pretty up right shoulder into a good wither. You may find some saddles are just too wide with a lower profile.

Skyrider saddles fit Cobb types well. 'My friend has a gypsy vanner and this saddle fits her horse well.

http://skyridersaddles.weebly.com/

[GypsyQ]

I have a horse built like yours and a saddle preference like yours. I found a Broken Horn trail saddle that has the ‘equitation bucket’ type seat. I love it! It has a round skirt so that his hip is free. Full bars clear his shoulder. The saddle is probably 30 years old. I got it for $250 at a local tack store that sells used.

I know it looks like a lot of seat, but it fits him so well and me so well, I feel him better than ever.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10201913257537161&l=704931099a

[KIloBright]

I found a Broken Horn trail saddle that has the ‘equitation bucket’ type seat. I love it! It has a round skirt so that his hip is free. Full bars clear his shoulder. The saddle is probably 30 years old. I got it for $250 at a local tack store that sells used.

I know it looks like a lot of seat, but it fits him so well and me so well, I feel him better than ever.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10201913257537161&l=704931099a[/QUOTE]

That saddle seem
s to sit low in front to me. maybe just the angle of the pic???

[craz4crtrs]

[QUOTE=GypsyQ;7836830]
I have a horse built like yours and a saddle preference like yours. I found a Broken Horn trail saddle that has the ‘equitation bucket’ type seat. I love it! It has a round skirt so that his hip is free. Full bars clear his shoulder. The saddle is probably 30 years old. I got it for $250 at a local tack store that sells used.

I know it looks like a lot of seat, but it fits him so well and me so well, I feel him better than ever.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10201913257537161&l=704931099a[/QUOTE]

I like the look of this better than the saddles you tried. Your horses may or may not need a lot of rock or curve to the bars. This dun horse does have the curve and upright shoulder. This may be what you are trying to fit too.

Also, the old Arab trees seem to fit the smaller drafties too. My fjordiex wasn’t near as hard to fit as my qh mare. She is actually much wider because of her big swept back shoulder.

Look at the Circle y Flex2 tree. It has an interesting concept.

[Ceylon_Star]

Here are a couple more recent (taken in August) shots to show his shape (that I don’t think are on my Photobucket yet). His withers aren’t actually all that pronounced. (and he’s deceptively “big”. big built, yes, but only sticks at 14.1hh)

Full side shot: https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10451798_769376416447666_5161433913978459293_n.jpg?oh=93544722437ceaa15834ce1c3e568be5&oe=54EE4F64&gda=1425247196_34f0ecd2a4f6d72df65a8fc71b587056

3/4 angle: https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10537128_767367276648580_5900668610485262958_n.jpg?oh=22f5d75717c68128e086a0746b2fb536&oe=54DCF62B&gda=1424488851_d3ef51a83410592ef8578ed63e54349f

3/4 from behind: https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10406457_737321942986447_8047550490733893080_n.jpg?oh=72fdbb5efa2c046374d7640e1d271c83&oe=54DAAA36&gda=1425059263_a4e87f1257fc773b4bff394488c61cfb

Psuedo top view (taken 2 weeks ago during a bareback jaunt): https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10169370_810097632375544_879268550665254725_n.jpg?oh=cfbd76fd6e3ca64d28dc2b478ebf0deb&oe=54DACD40

His withers are quite wide, but also quite low. He has a flat back and well sprung ribs, a forward girth groove and big shoulders that come back farther than anything I’ve ridden. He can only use 2 girth styles when going english otherwise the saddle is pulled too far forward and he gets girth galls. Royal pain in the rear.

I’ll snap better pictures when I’m out either tomorrow or Tuesday too. I would’ve done that today if I had checked COTH before going out to the barn. D’oh!

I know that draft trees are way too wide, but semi qh bars are too narrow. That’s about the extent of my knowledge thus far. I’ll be printing out the wither templates in the next couple days and taking them to the barn to test out. Just need to finish off the last of the cereal upstairs so I have some cardboard to use for them, haha!

GypsyQ’s horse looks VERY similarly built to my guy, actually.

There’s only one western saddle pictured in my photobucket, just different pads (I ended up using an entirely different pad altogether, and used the picture with the burgundy pad to sell it because that pad was way too long for him).

I took a look at the Simco today and it doesn’t work for me, so I didn’t bother taking it to try on ponybutt. Still waiting to hear from the owner of the Big Horn.

I’ll look at the Skyriders too, thanks!

[craz4crtrs]

I am confident that my Courts Miss Rodeo America all around would fit him. Martin also makes some very nice saddles. More money, but the adjustable rigging is really nice for a horse like yours. Try on lots of saddles, you will find one.

[aktill]

[QUOTE=craz4crtrs;7836947]

Look at the Circle y Flex2 tree. It has an interesting concept.[/QUOTE]

Avoid, personally http://www.rodnikkel.com/content/saddle-tree-blog-from-shop-and-desk/checking-out-a-flex-tree/

[Pocket_Pony]

No comments on Western saddles, as I STILL don’t have one I like. I’m back to riding dressage.

But I wanted to comment on how adorably CUTE your Cob is. He looks like my Cob filly - bay with a cute white star! Good luck!