Need suggestions of specific bits with a serious "whoa" factor

[Abbie.S]

So I know quite a bit about bits (no pun intended), but I’m looking for recommendations on specific bits folks have used successfully to help solve a particular training issue.

I won’t go into too many specifics out of respect for the fact that it’s not a horse I own: suffice it to say he’s been in training with me for a while and while he’s gotten better, I’ve exhausted all my tools for getting a horse really solid at stopping and am needing something different to bit him in to get him over this hump. I like all my training horses in simple snaffles if possible, which is what he wears, but he’s been a complex re-training project and a snaffle just isn’t cutting it with this issue.

Does anyone have a particular bit (brands are great) that they’ve used successfully for this purpose? Not looking to “bit up” this horse, or find a harsh bit for him to wear. Quite the contrary: something that will get the message across loud and clear when he blows off body cues and leans, get him to where he gets really clear to hunt for those body queues first, and once he’ll stop off seat/weight only, we go back to the snaffle.

[Scribbler]

As a kid I used a mechanical hackamore to put a stop on a horse that was learning to take off at the gallop.

As an adult I see that my current horse could blow through a mechanical hackamore if she chose and I feel safer in a snaffle with the option of an emergency pulley stop.

All horses are different but I can’t see that a stronger bit is necessarily going to work for all horses in all situations.

Nevertheless if I had to get forceful with a horse ID be inclined to use something bitless.

I’ve certainly seen bolting horses in western curbs.

[ace]

I have used Gag bridles on a temporary basis for a similar retraining issue. I have friends that swear by Waterford bits for horses like the one you describe.

I too prefer a simple snaffle, but sometimes for a retrain/rehab you have to get creative!

[Abbie.S]

@Scribbler, normally I’d agree with you, which is why I save a “bigger” bit as a last resort and only really to get the point across. The first thing I put him in was a short-shanked mechanical hackamore and he absolutely hated it. But he doesn’t bolt, this really is about getting a good, hard, “stop-those-feet-this-second” halt.

[Abbie.S]

@ace**, I completely forgot about Waterford bits…I might have to see if I can borrow one off someone.

I probably wouldn’t want to go gag…my experience with gag bits is it causes the horse to raise his head up, which is helpful for a horse at speed that you need to get stopped, but this horse already braces and dumps his front end/base of his neck, so it’s not a posture I want to encourage.

[Xanthoria]

Depends on how he evades.

Is he leaning? A Waterford can help with that as it’s so “fluid” in the mouth.
Is he getting high-headed? Try some poll pressure with a shanked bit like a Pelham, and maybe a martingale.
Is he curling up and ducking behind the pressure? Try a gag.
Opening his mouth? Pick a noseband that stop him evading that way.

Personally I pop a Kimberwick on as a nice mild option and so far it’s all I’ve ever needed. With or without curb chain, using the slots on an Uxeter type or not.

[cnigh]

I used a Pelham like this one on my paint mare. She was good 98% of the time. But that 2% could get ugly fast.
​​​​​​
With this bit I could hack her out on the buckle. She liked it and so did I.

https://www.google.ca/search?client=…ETIzQUi1q8WBM:

If you don’t like the port. A mullen mouth pelham might work.

[goodhors]

Have you tried using a voice command in conjunction with your reins and body signals? We use voice so horse learns stopping from the ground way before we ever get on a young one. Voice command “lets him help” with a stop on the lead, he knows what is supposed to happen when he hears the word. We never let them go on after the word, has to stop and stand until he is told verbally ( cluck or walk on) to move again.

WAY back in the day, we voice commanded our horses to halt fast for reining instead of hauling back on the reins with those western shank ed bits. Horse “helped” by getting into proper body position and did a nice stop, often sliding if we were going fast. He KNEW the prepatory words, did the work with a light rein touch, in good body position. Worked with any bit, any saddle. I sure did not want to hurt their mouth, so low words to stop him made both of us look real good, smooth in our stops from any speed.

We use Hup to have horse slow down. Trot to walk, canter to trot, be ready to stop if only walking. Hup is like a down shift button. So Hup, Hup, Ho, is two strides and stopped from canter. He did the work, smooth because he knows the words and is not surprised with rein pressure to become discoordinated trying to stop. You often back up a step or two from that halt, Ho, then go forward again. Keep him listening and not making the choices for you. Hup, Hup, means from canter to walk, you never said Ho.

Old-fashioned using voice, but it could be the tool or aid you need to communicate with this horse who is not responding to body signals. Great having a voice command as an “emergency brake” if you ever need it! We have needed it and been glad horse stopped NOW as asked, before someone got hurt!

[joiedevie99]

Did you try the mechanical hack with a second rein? Put the horse’s preferred snaffle on a bradoon hanger and put that on first. Then put on the mechanical hack.

[Come_Shine]

Double twisted wire.

[CHT]

I would just put a simple side pull (or rope halter) on under the regular bridle. Use the sidepull/halter the same way you use a halter with leading (sharp tug). Make sure of course that the horse has a really good whoa on the ground first. (A whoa off pressure, not because you stop your body when leading)

The reason I would use this instead of the mechanical/leverage hack, is that this is a more intuitive and more recognizable command as it mimics the same pressure used when leading and involves less pain.

[luvmyhackney]

I prefer to teach whoa off voice in long lines. Then lunge line and then under saddle with a lunge, and then saddle only. A stronger bit doesn’t help a 1200 lb animal, you gotta get the mind. Then slowly add body cues to voice under saddle. Have you tried a neck rope? That helps so much.

How does he evade and why specifically does he not stop well? Just because he ignores your body signals, means he probably has no clue what you are asking. The thing that gets the message loud and clear is a good solid wall to stop in front of. When he leans, do the one rein stop, hard to lean off one rein when bending his neck.

I disagree with upping the bit, you will just make him fearful any other bit and start having contact issues.

[TBFAN]

Have you tried a Dr. Bristol? I’ve had success using it short term for a similar problem. I’ve found it allows me to be quite light with my hand.

[TWH_Girl]

Argentine snaffles are nice- short shank, but uses some poll pressure. Reinsman makes a nice one.

[stb]

I have a super sensible gelding with an old tongue injury. I usually ride him in a Myler 33 mb egfbutt snaffle with hooks. He likes the hooks I think because the bit is very stable in his mouth and it stays off of his tongue. The 33 mouthpiece has the least amount of tongue pressure available in a Myler bit.

I recently started foxhunting and found that my mellow and easy to stop guy needed more brakes in the hunt field. I just put him in a Myler Pelham with the same 33 mouthpiece. So far, so good. When we ride western I use a Myler 33 short shank curb. He likes that too. I actually think he prefers a curb action to a snaffle. I think it gives him more of a signal before actual contact.

[Guilherme]

@Abbie.S

So I know quite a bit about bits (no pun intended), but I’m looking for recommendations on specific bits folks have used successfully to help solve a particular training issue.

I won’t go into too many specifics out of respect for the fact that it’s not a horse I own: suffice it to say he’s been in training with me for a while and while he’s gotten better, I’ve exhausted all my tools for getting a horse really solid at stopping and am needing something different to bit him in to get him over this hump. I like all my training horses in simple snaffles if possible, which is what he wears, but he’s been a complex re-training project and a snaffle just isn’t cutting it with this issue.

Does anyone have a particular bit (brands are great) that they’ve used successfully for this purpose? Not looking to “bit up” this horse, or find a harsh bit for him to wear. Quite the contrary: something that will get the message across loud and clear when he blows off body cues and leans, get him to where he gets really clear to hunt for those body queues first, and once he’ll stop off seat/weight only, we go back to the snaffle.

I’d go with a double bridle and use a any of the standard bits used in the dressage world.

When we had our Marchador stallion communication through a snaffle bit alone was not successful. I rode him in an M1909 Army headstall using the M1909 bit and bradoon. It worked quite well with him. The reins were set so that the bradoon engaged first but the bit was quick to follow if he paid no attention to bradoon. Once he got the idea (about 2 rides) he was a complete gentleman.

Some prior owners in the U.S. and Brazil had been sort of rough on his mouth. To cut through the “fog” of remembrance we had had to be able to “speak loudly.” Just adding a powerful bit as “disk brakes” gets part of the problem but not the rest.

You can find the M1909 items on e-bay. I’m sure any dessagista could help you out with a double bridle, including set up and use.

Good luck in the program.

G.

[Abbie.S]

Thanks for all the suggestions everyone.

To try and address everyone who responded: yes, I’m working on voice commands with this horse, but I tend to not want to rely on them solely for anything. I’ve also ridden him in a rope halter - it’s how I started him because he didn’t take a bit and I re-start all older horses this way. But the rope halter was used with just one rein, so to stop him he learned to give his head laterally and bend to a stop.

I haven’t tried a two rein anything yet with this horse yet: it’s traditionally where I’d go next if I’m shooting for a finished bridle horse, but this horse came with a lot of interesting training challenges and I haven’t yet followed my traditional path of getting a fairly well finished bridle horse with him.

luvmyhackney, believe me, I hear you. I don’t like moving to bigger bits. This horse came with a very unique history and has essentially been completely brainwashed: he has very little “search” in him, and that’s made it really hard to re-teach him because he doesn’t tend towards asking questions, he’s been conditioned to give certain responses and that “search” had been all but destroyed by previous riders/trainers. I’ve found I’ve had to find creative ways to motivate him to think instead of just give his conditioned response. I understand what you’re saying about getting a horse scared, and I absolutely don’t want him scared, but I do need him concerned because he’ll think and learn when he’s concerned. If he’s ever going to progress to a two rein or straight up in the bridle (with a spade bit), he needs to know it means something when I sit down and pick up on the reins a little bit. He needs to be hunting for the least amount of pressure and right now he’s not. He’s content to let me do the heavy lifting because that’s what he’s been broke to do.

The Argentine snaffle might be a good option to try him in. I’ve never been a fan of Dr. Bristol’s. I have to look into the Myler suggestion: I used a Myler D mb 09 w/ hooks for a horse I worked with a few years back and he went really nicely in it. Thanks for all the specific suggestions, everyone.

[sdlbredfan]

FWIW, I agree on use voice cues and do not escalate to a harsher bit. As you surely know, it is the release that rewards and teaches, not the severity of the cue or bit. If you have been riding in a Western type of shanked bit, switch to a snaffle, ideally a KK Ultra. If he pulls or braces against the bit, then a Waterford is helpful.

What you really need to do, and it will take time, is to get him aware that the instant he responds by slowing or stopping, he gets an immediate release. It is a timing thing. I am not just ‘talking through my hat’; I cured a bolter and another that was merely a puller, not bolter, through this method. It may take awhile, but once the proverbial lightbulb goes on in his mind, that responding quickly to your whoa, and/or rein, results in immediate release, he will become more responsive.

[Gloria]

I have a young mare who has consistently run off with the last trainer. We got it resolved by putting her with a very good ground work trainer for serious ground works (3 months). When he was able to ride her out with a plain rope hackamore all over the field, loose rein and bareback, we put a Herm Sprenger Dynamic RS Loose Ring Snaffle Bit on her and started dressage. She never ran off ever again. She is by nature very hot and gets scared very easily. She is one that responds to very light pressure.

[Palm_Beach]

@Abbie.S - The type of stop you are looking for is a finished maneuver, and it does not sound like your horse is there yet in his training. You wrote, “He’s content to let me do the heavy lifting because that’s what he’s been broke to do.” I never do any heavy lifting, I’m much too lazy. I understand that you are working with some issues, but you have not been specific about them, so it’s hard to offer suggestions. If you are doing “heavy lifting” then something went wrong with your foundation with this horse.