Need tips- going from a flat mover to a horse with suspension in trot

I had a little QH gelding for 4 years who was very “earthbound.” He was the only horse I rode during that time, we were only showing Intro because we had trouble keeping the canter. I have a new horse on free lease who’s shown through 2nd. He’s only an inch taller but feels huge, has a big walk and a lot of suspension in trot. I haven’t cantered him yet because I feel like a beginner at the trot! I had no issues with the trot before, like ever!

Part of it is my saddle and I’ve just switched to one with a bigger thigh block. But I feel like I’m all over the place at the posting trot. If I relax I don’t have a clear post, and when I try to have a definitive post it makes me feel unstable. I know part of it is that I need to relax and open my hip angle (much easier said than done) but are there any exercises I can do on or off the horse that will help?

I do have a great trainer but lessons have been almost non-existent lately due to Covid and limiting people at the barn. I’ve only had him for a couple months. I’m thinking maybe someone here can give me some ideas or maybe explain in a different way what I should be doing? He’s such a nice little horse but I’m getting frustrated with myself and feel like he’s wishing I knew how to ride, lol!

Super dweeby non-technical answer here, sing when you trot. It gives you something else to focus on, and he’ll listen and move to the rhythm as well. I suggest some thing in 4/4 time.

Please disregard if you think it won’t work. Singing solves a lot of my problems…

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I second the singing. My instructor demands singing, loud enough for her to hear, from her students anytime they have trouble relaxing. Jingle bells or the ABCs for the trot and row your boat for canter.

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MAYBE try shortening your stirrups a hole or two, and see if that helps.

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Ultimately, it’s going to take time in the saddle. Eventually, you will become accustomed to the movement. In the meantime, sing, shorten your stirrups, whatever other good advice you’ll get, but keep at it. You will get this!

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And/or use your mobile device in a device belt you can wear while riding. Make a playlist of upbeat, rhythmic songs you like, and play it while riding.

This not only helps me relax and not over-react to each rattling screw and loose wheel my current extremely green horse develops, I think it helps the horse pick up a tempo as well. I don’t know how it works, but horses pick up on the tempo of music they can hear while working. One reason some dressage shows play music in the show arena, I assume. :slight_smile:

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When faced with such a predicament years ago, I shortened my stirrups and gradually let them down again. This seemed to work. The saddle was riding in had too wide of a twist too, so that did not help. Building up core stength and loosening your hips will help. I added some specific stretches to my post workout routine over the last year that have immensely helped me with my tight hips.
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”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹You could also have someone lunge the horse while you ride hands free. Play with and focus on your seat and balance. Put your arms out at your side, hold on to the front and back of the saddle while you relax your hips into the movement, do arm circles, loosen up, focus on acclimating yourself without having to worry about the rest of riding.

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Lots of stretches designed for hip flexors and hips will help. I try to stretch every night and the more consistent I am, the better I ride.

It sounds like you need to shorten your stirrups. The goal should be a relaxed, loose, supple seat and body of the rider. If you are reaching for your stirrups (I always have to put my stirrups up a hole on a really big mover, so you are not the only one) you can’t have a good body or leg position.

I don’t sing but I will count for the same idea… I just do “1,2,1,2…” kind of under my breath in rhythm with my posting so I make sure to keep the same tempo.

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Thanks for the suggestions! Do you have any specific stretches you recommend or should I just google?

I do like the singing idea, I often do the “1,2” but am terrible about keeping up with it, haha. I did already shorten my stirrups, will have to see if I can go up one more in the new saddle without putting my leg over the block. I think the biggest factors are that I need more core strength and to stop being so stiff! I’m timid so I stiffen up when I get nervous (which of course is happening more with a new horse.) Of course it also is muscle memory and I’m hoping that eventually it will be my new normal. The 2 horses are like polar opposites so it’s been interesting! Hoping to get more lessons in soon which will help too. I know that if/when I can get my crap together, we will do well because he is such a cute little mover and really does know his stuff! I am the weak link.

I had a similar experience last summer coming off riding my QHx mare for over a decade onto… basically anything else :lol: I was lucky enough to be able to work off lunge lessons with a BNT for a month. Although that wasn’t a lot of time to make much progress, it definitely highlighted my weaknesses (tight hips, and need a stronger core) and since I was on the lunge and could focus on ME, helped give me a better sense of what I should be feeling/doing. Biggest thing for me, especially at the canter, was to BREATHE! I thought I was, but when I consciously focused only on that and maintaining my position, I realized I was holding my breath a bit at times without realizing it. It may not be possible due to Covid, but if you could get some time on the lunge line, or if you trust your horse, knot your reins and drop them and really focus on your seat and core position. As for stretches, I really like pigeon pose and low runner’s lunges for my hips.

I have had a similar experience and trust me, you will find canter to be a breeze! I’m still struggling with the big trot.

Go back to some real pony club basics in the saddle like riding with one hand under the pommel or grab strap, switching up your posting rhythm (2 up 2 down, 1 up 2 down, etc), lunge line work with no stirrups if you have someone who can help you from a safe distance. If relaxing your thigh and knee hasn’t helped, try the opposite - keep a firmer thigh and knee to help secure your position, and work on controlling the “down” motion as well as the rise out of the saddle.

Look for hip flexor stretches on line and make sure to work on your core strength. That is what has helped me to get less awful at sitting my new horse’s big trot

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OP, you need to discover how to “find” your hips (get awareness of them), and relax them. That’s the mechanical thing that will help you stay closer to your horses’s back and softer. It’s the kinesthetic skill you need to develop in order to ride well on whatever trot you have.

For this equitation problem, I think the keys are to find a position or exercise that puts you into the right dynamic position and then lets you feel it while you are there. Once you have that, you have a chance in hell of recreating it in your body, on demand. One way we get this feel is via contrast and movement in our body creates contrast that we can feel.

So if I were in the ring with you, I’d pick an exercise that asked you to continually change how your hips had to move on your horse. You have to “jar them loose” of doing what they always do so that you can feel something different. My two suggested moves:

  1. Switch diagonals on the “up” part of the post, every six strides. It will be hard at first. You will need some core to do it. The beauty of this movement is that your hips don’t get a chance to fall into a rut where they stiffen and relax in a predictable, rhythmic way. Also, you will need to engage your core, whether you like it or not, because (all but the most rank beginners) end up relaxing our hip muscles when we are in the “up” position. Or, rather, we need to open our hips in the way we always want them to be at the top of the post. In any case, you want that core engagement because you will not be able to find and relax stiff hips if your body has worked it out that those muscles around your hips are what is keeping you in balance. In other words, you need to teach your body to keep you upright and centered on your horse from your belly, not your hips. Easier said than done; ask me how I know.

  2. Along the same lines of creating contrasting movements in your body that you can perceive and then replicate: Try switching from posting to two point, to posting, to switching diagonals to sitting every 3 or 4 strides. They idea, again, is that those postural muscles of your body which you don’t feel very well never get a chance to settle into a predictable rhythm of contractions and relaxation that leaves you with that lack of perception about what they are doing. What you are feeling for here is a leg that is relaxed and unchanging from about the middle of your thigh down to your heel. If you have a deep heel or come from H/J world the way I do, you’ll be able to feel a little spring in your stirrup. Feel for that, because it’s a good sign that your knee (which I think lots of us stiffen and can’t feel) is relaxed.

If you relax your ankle and hip, and maintain feeling, dynamic tension in your belly instead, I think you will necessarily have also relaxed your hips enough that your seat can be deeper and more following. That’s what lets you post on a bigger trot-- hips that stay relaxed in a large range of motion, rather than getting “beyond” the biggest range your flat-moving quarter horse gave you and then automatically stiffening up.

For your horse, when you do this exercise, don’t worry a ton about making him give you his back. If he’s a schoolmaster who won’t mind you asking him to do that while you work on changing your equitation, go ahead. If, on the other hand, this horse is young and can’t help you out, your best bet is to not harp on him about how his back feels and “ride what you have” while you work on yourself. Again, make the decision that you are just working on you and all he has to do is just keep cruising around. It is nice for a green dressage horse to experience a ride that doesn’t put him and his body at the center of attention. It’s also a good thing for a green horse to work on being tolerant of how he’s ridden. And I think you will find that as you get into an exercise that has you counting strides, you’ll find a very rhythmic, even trot. Even if the quality of his engagement is mediocre, he will come to enjoy the unpressured rhythmicity of it. You might not be giving him physically the best ride, but you also aren’t demanding much from him mentally and that’s like coming into work on Friday when the boss is away. Trust me, your horse won’t mind you feeling different on his back so long as you don’t pressure him to be perfect while you change your ride.

When you are doing any of the exercises, they will come a point where you discover by accident or maybe a stride after the fact, that your seat was deep and soft-- just the way you wanted it. This is the same as taking your hands off the handlebars of your bike and, then, while you are there discovering that you can ride no hands. There’s no discovering that you can ride no hands without actually riding no hands. So when you get to that magic moment, where you say, “Look, ma, I’m riding with soft hips!” just stay in that-- the post or the sitting or the deep two point for another stride or two and “take inventory” of your body. Notice what you feel and describe it to yourself in whatever words make sense. Then change it up (sit if your were posting or in a two point, switch diagonals, etc.) and see if you can find that same feeling in your hips. Or go back to what you were doing when they were soft, after the change, and see if you can decide to recreate that feeling in your hips (or wherever you felt it in your body) in your own language. In other words, that “Look, ma, I’m doing it!” statement that you make to yourself is actually really important. It’s like using high lighter pen on the felt experience of having soft hips, so that you can find it again from all the other ways of using your body that you feel.

To me, this bit-- circumscribing kinesthetic experience-- is the money shot. You can read, say, Sally Swift’s language for this stuff, but that means that you are still directing attention from the real of language to your body. It works if her images give you a new thing to do with your body that you can do, then hopefully feel, and then reliably repeat. But what if your body remains closed to whatever language works for for her and other people?

Working the other way-- from the body “up” to conscious thought (or not), we can do the exercise and have our body just live it. If you are a talented athlete, you don’t need the more cognitive or linguistic part of your brain to get in on that deal. Those guys are the wonderful, natural riders that say unhelpful things like “just relax and sit!” that don’t help the rest of us for whom that simple command doesn’t have so, so many physical nuances. If we don’t already have their body, how is that language going to help us make our body into theirs?

What I find for myself is that I can teach myself body awareness and control if I can make the experience definable and conscious. But the nice thing is that you can do some or all of this by yourself. Put yourself on horseback in a different position that you can feel, feel it and feel how the horse seems to respond, and then recreate or even exaggerate what was working. There really is a lot of changing our equitation that we can do by ourselves. That’s because developing kinesthetic awareness and control is, at bottom, a completely private experience.

Also, if I could have one person help me with my dressage equitation, it would be Susan von Dietze. She is the Man of dressage equitation. If there were a Big Eq of Dressage, you’d want her to be your trainer. She has written books and so if you are a better student than I, I’ll bet you can find lots of help in those. If you ever get to ride with her or even audit, Do It.

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MVP, I love your post! Very thought provoking and helpful. Especially during the times of no trainers. Thank you for taking the time to share your wisdom. I’m going to try some of the exercises today!

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I would suggest riding in 2-point. Get a good comfortable feel for that horses’ trot, until you are relaxed with it. Once you get there, posting will happen automatically.

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I really like these stretches:
https://images.app.goo.gl/PF6bgjqXJH7zq9SCA

I also sit down most of the day (desk job) which makes my thighs tight and I stretch them as well.

Also, you really have to relax. You can’t try to hold on anywhere with your legs or seat to try to make it better- that will make you bounce more. Think flop! You can push your thighs up against the blocks for stability. Think of sitting on your back pockets on your butt and opening your thighs/hips, wrapping your lower legs around the horse’s body with your toes as in as comfortable.

Saddle time will help the most :slight_smile:

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Great post @mvp!

Thank you for that.

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Thanks, mvp, that was an insightful and detailed response, very helpful!! Some great ideas to work on, thanks again everyone! The horse is a quiet older schoolmaster type so it should be fairly easy for me to work on my position- just have to convince myself I’m not going to pop off… lol!

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Awesome!

And I hope you do get to that spot where you think you are going to pop off. That’s because that spot is where your hips have stiffened up. Somewhere, a couple of strides earlier, your body (unbeknownst to you) decided that the amount of core you were using to stay upright and on the horse got bigger than what your quarter horse had taught you, so your body was going to recruit those stronger, or “more familiar” muscles of your hips. And then the wheels started to fall off: You don’t know what, but the trot felt to big, and you felt that ugly bounce and stiffness creep in. And a couple of strides later, you are looking to either grab mane or his mouth or to slow down.

So before the wheels fall off, let me suggest a couple of tools.

  1. If you have any fear or like to rationalize feeling not up to something, decide otherwise. Decide that you are trying to get outside your comfort zone where you will have to find a different equitation solution to the problem of staying relaxed on a bigger trot.

This may not be you, but I have taught adults whose “solution” to overcoming something fearful is to stop and tell me why they are right to be scared. I won’t go way into why this doesn’t work, but let me be clear: It is not the mental headspace that creates change.

For 2 and 3: Let me underscore that when you exceed your comfort zone and feel like you are just about to lose your soft hips in that bigger trot, you are going there with a different set of tools. You should spend very, very few strides riding badly. That’s because you are trying to “capture” and then communicate with parts of your body that do that old pattern on autopilot. It’s a waste of time for you to let that autopilot set postural muscles turn on… So if you start to feel the trot make you bounce, make a mental decision that you will change either you or the horse in not more than half a circle to get it back, or you will walk and then try again.

  1. Throw yourself a bone and start with an under-tempo trot. This does not mean going all the way to the extreme Western Pleasure trot. That will frustrate your dressage school master and discombobulate the front- and hind ends so that you actually have a gait that’s weirder to ride. Since you do have a school master, you can be a bit unfair to him and ask him for a longer, slower trot (post long and slow to get that) and just don’t support him with the leg that your instructor would surely have you do. In other words, you are looking for a swinging, relaxed trot but perhaps with less drive than is ideal.

  2. When you get to that moment when you think you the next post “up” or two might get bouncy, choose instead, to spend a couple of strides in a two-point. At first, you are just saving this somewhat screwed-up equitation moment from letting your hips go into full lock-down. But you have a new chance to feel something else with them. While you are in two-point, try to make that a deep one. See if you can think about relaxing your ankles and knees so that you allow your undercarriage to touch the saddle. You are looking to find a few strides of a deep two-point, or what the old-school H/J guys would call a three-point position. If you can graze the saddle this way, while you are there, “take inventory” and see what you feel in your body. I tend to notice that, lo-and-behold, my hips are relaxed and moving.

Or really, I don’t think I can feel my hips “being relaxed,” but boy-howdy I can feel that they are moving, a bit like my ankles move a bit to absorb shock. I’m sure an Olympian rider can feel relaxation. But if all I can feel is their movement and that’s a pretty good proxy for “relaxed,” I’ll take that sensation and try to see if I can re-create it. Then I notice that my thighs are melted nicely around the horse. If I keep noticing stuff down my leg, I notice that I can feel my heel and ball of my foot. I tend to then bring my attention back up my body at that point and notice that my core is working a tad, but too loose. (This is my bad habit, left from 40 years of riding jumping horses before trying to learn to sit on a horse the way dressagists and western riders do). This is what I would tell you I was feeling while “taking inventory” of my body in that deep two point. By the time I was done, I’d try posting again, seeing if I could keep that feeling I described to myself, in my words in my hips while posting (or sitting, or changing diagonals, or changing direction).

The goal with choosing this deep two-point for a couple of strides is that you are giving yourself a new experience of riding the bigger trot that made you bounce and turn it into an unrecoverable train wreck. If you practice this a lot, that couple steps of deep two-point will be the thing you can do to re-establish relaxation in your hips. You don’t have to continue bouncing and you don’t have to change the horse. You just use your new-found tool of getting your hips to change on the fly. Sooner or later, you will be able to do this “reset” mentally. But in the beginning, you have to find a “macroscopic” exercise that forces your body to change in those “microscopic” ways that you can’t yet dictate.

I hope you have success! – signed, someone who now wishes she had started riding Western.

Lots of great advice here.

One thing not to forget is that you need to move forward in the trot. Your “hips” are not the pointy bones you measure to fit a skirt but are the ball and socket joint at the top of your leg. Think of those drawing a circle. Bigger stride needs a bigger circle, shorter stride needs a smaller one.

Keep counting out aloud, don’t forget or give up, it really does helps both of you get into rythmn and balance.

Great posts by @mvp !

I will add two things that helped me. I have a green Appendix mare with a flatter trot, so when I post her trot, I tend to help her along and treat her fairly delicately, because she doesn’t have a lot of carrying power in the hind legs.

Last year I rode a friend’s warmblood gelding several times while she was out of town. Even though they were similarly sized horses, his gaits are so much bigger. It does take a lot of core, so get thee to the (home) gym and strengthen your psoas, lower back, and everything else. Also work on independence of your muscle engagement. For instance, make sure you can engage your low back without tightening your glutes or hip flexors, etc. Tensed glutes will ratchet you up out of the saddle, but it also doesn’t work to sit there like a puddle.

But the main tip I don’t think I’ve seen already, is to really SIT down into the saddle and emphasize that part of the posting. Feel your seatbones each time, and then just rise a little, totally from the power of the trot. If you get ratcheted out of the saddle so that you can no longer really l feel the contact on the down portion of the post, stay in the up for a couple strides while you sink your knees down and re-establish your balance, then give it another go.

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