I suppose you were talking about me? Well,
I suppose i think of horses in a different way than a lot of people do. Dogs too.
I think horse buying is somewhat akin to buying a house or new car. The list price is often not what the seller expects to receive. (though they would like to!)
If I think a horse might be suitable and the price is in the ballpark, I will go see it. If it is above my budget I avoid if it says “firm” price unless I have had a conversation with the seller. After trying it, I may decide that I am not willing to pay the asking price but will pay somewhat less.
The last horse I bought was greener than I wanted. I made a lower offer but we didnt reach an agreement. I continued looking and they continued trying to sell. Eventually I got back in touch and we came to an agreement below asking price but higher than my initial offer. Everyone was satisfied.
If he had been exactly what I wanted, I might have offered slightly less, just because every penny matters to me, but I would have caved and paid full price if necessary and I was convinced that was his market value. If I was looking for a horse with the qualities that most ammie shoppers want, I might grab that unicorn at once!
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I thought you were presenting your own thinking, as your own feelings. Which is never wrong.
I just realized I’ve always paid asking price for my horses, except one where I made an offer that was accepted as offered. But then I’ve never gone looking for a horse to buy either. I sort of tripped over all of them.
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I mean, I bought a cute little appy for $800 several years ago. I certainly didn’t haggle, and when I sold her for $3K a few years later, the buyers didn’t haggle either. It would really raise a flag with me if I was selling a horse for $1K and the buyers were begging to get it for $750 because that is all they can afford. Much different than if you multiply those numbers by 10 or 100. Then the care costs are just fractions in comparison. If the cost of a ton of hay is the difference between being able to buy the horse or not, the buyer probably can’t afford proper care either.
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Still it doesn’t mean they can’t afford anything if they haggle. When I bought my departed gelding, they asked $1k, I haggled down, I supported him for the next 11 years just fine. When I bought my pony, she was $3500 and I didn’t haggle. I supported her for four years and am now hoping to sell her for three times what I paid (or more 
) and if they haggle reasonably, I’m not going to wonder if they can afford to feed her or get her feet trimmed.
It’s just dumb logic.
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To me this is a whole different ball game than what OP asked below.
I was thinking back to when we bought my daughters mare. She was listed at $1000. She rode well and has been a perfect horse in every way ( 13+ years now) and 100% as the owners described. I offered $800 and they took it and I don’t usually haggle and would have happily paid the $1000 if they didn’t accept my offer.
I still don’t know why I even haggled on the price as it isn’t like me.
I was selling a really nice, barely used, dressage bridle complete with a sparkly browband for an insanely cheap price. Someone from my pony club was interested in it as a christmas present for their daughter and asked if I’d drop the price $50. I agreed and then found out at the PC christmas party that they live in a million dollar home, horse is boarded at one of the top stables in the area, and their home was full of high end furniture. Here I was, living paycheck to paycheck to afford my horse and they ask me to drop the price of a bridle. Still pisses me off to this day.
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I would feel similarly bc the buyers “were begging … because that is all they can afford”
That’s like those iso ads that read: looking for a project to by my next 3’ hunter (insert eye roll here) but have to stay under 1k because I spent all my money on my prom dress. That’s questionable bc of the words used.
I’m surely biased, but when I say I’m looking to stay under 1k for a glorified pasture puff, I’m saying I don’t want to spend more than that on a pasture puff. Not I spent all my monies and still think I can swing another horse.
Words matter. Just like the words used approaching a seller regarding a lower price on a big ticket horse matter. Telling a seller that you can only offer 75k on a 100k horse because 75k represents the sum total of your net worth might also raise some flags (about your sanity).
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Or
"No, I won’t spend $29.00/bale excellent quality hay to supplement our meagerly stocked home-grown crop from this summer, just in case, because I have to go to Mexico" emphasized text 
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Right. Not “my husband got laid off and we don’t know how we are going to pay the mortgage much less keep our horses”.
I have to get my hair done. Right after I buy more of that excellent Teff at $38 per bale (big bales at least).
$38.50 was our last load
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As a seller and trainer I don’t begrudge anyone asking “is there any room to move on the price?”
Or a trainer offering to forgo the assumed commission to them to bring the price to a more affordable number for their customer.
Or asking if the owner would do any better for cash (depending on if the horses are their business or not, many are willing to get mattress money as opposed to a wire transfer or check.
I also may be open to negotiation if the horse is staying in my program.
Remember, many buyers need to feel like they are getting a deal regardless of the actual price or what the horse is worth. Even if it’s $500 less.
As for what your potential gelding is worth. Sale price of a racehorse prospect has zero bearing on what he’s worth now. Seller seems confused by that or trying to use it as leverage for a higher price.
A gelding who has not been restarted at all is not worth a whole lot. Especially as a gelding…how it’s bred literally does not matter…at all.
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In my area I’m seeing resellers putting 2-3 rides and asking very high 4 figures/low 5’s on TBs from the track.
So unless horse is exceptionally nice 12k seems high at least in my area.
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Haggling is probably how they afford a lot of their things, house prices are negotiable, cars too. Salaries. Being a smart haggler often gets a person ahead.
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That was one of the interesting outcomes of the negotiation class I took. People who got the short end of a deal, even if they accepted the deal eventually (and for their own reasons) often decided on a “never again!” policy with their counterpart. Since this was a business class, it’s important for both sides to realize that folks can get to “never again!”
Personally, anybody who comes at me, without seeing the item, with a lower price, I automatically say no. They aren’t looking at the quality of the item, and it’s a signal to me that they’re going to annoy me. But I have certainly and without rancor reduced a price when someone’s come, looked, offered lower for some reason, and I’ve accepted the reasons.
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Just today saw an ISO ad for a horse under 10, likes to jump and able to move up, does decently in dressage, friendly personality with some pizzazz. Oh and under $1,000 or preferably free.
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I am struggling to find a companion horse that can do occasional pony rides and walk hacks with beginners at this price point.
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That depends - if you are shopping with your coach and paying commission, typically they would handle the negotiations. Make sure you understand what sort of compensation your trainer is expecting (% commission, hourly rate). There have been many threads on this board about people assessed a commission when they didn’t expect it.
There might be situations where you would bring up a lower offer at any of those points:
- If a horse is out of your budget but negotiable you would want to disclose that to the seller before making an appointment to avoid wasting either of your time
- If you like the horse but feel it is overpriced you might make an offer after trying it
- The PPE might bring up additional negotiation concerns
In your case, if you like the horse but feel he is overpriced for not being restarted you could ask the seller if the price is firm and go from there, probably starting on the higher side of your range if she is flexible. (If you said you weren’t willing to pay more than 8K for an un restarted TB, then all you can do is make the lowball as politely as possible and hope for the best, but if you are willing to pay the asking price you don’t want to alienate the seller if she is firm).
I agree with other posters that being a 6-figure yearling does not dictate the OTTB price (esp for geldings). However, it’s not clear from your description whether this horse has “let down” because he is 100% done or whether he is worth that price to race, which might influence the seller’s pricing.
When I bought my current horse he had been on the market for quite some time. I’d seen videos and thought he looked nice, even though it was clear he’d been lunged for quite some time to wear him out before being ridden. Turns out he was quirky and a difficult amateur ride making him hard to sell. Being a retired pro myself, quirky doesn’t bother me much as long as it’s not unsafe.
His price was way beyond my budget. The owner wasn’t desperate to sell him but also wanted him off the training bill as they had other young stock coming up. I talked with the trainer extensively. Came back and made an offer of just over half their asking price, and even that stretched my budget.
They accepted and the horse was mine. In this case it was a matter of the right buyer, an owner who recognized it was a good way to move the horse on, and their trainer who agreed.
Nothing wrong with haggling on some things. Cars, real estate, horses, stuff on Craigslist or Facebook…I price stuff like that accordingly and build some haggle room into the price.
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Update:
Seller & I came to an agreement. Lower price on the condition I pick the horse up the weekend coming up and wave PPE. I said we can do this weekend but i’m not passing on a PPE that is not negotiable. We did the PPE today and horse turns out to be dead lame in the fetlock, stifle, and hock in his hind leg. I thought maybe he had stiffness from being out of work when I saw his videos and rode him, no limping or anything just stiff. But after flexions it was apparent that it was very off. I ended up stopping there per my vet’s advice and coach’s advice. The vet got real and levelled with me saying he was not hopeful for a good outcome from the x-rays. He said it’s a large price tag to bring home a dead lame young horse, and it will not have a healthy life or ability to do what i wish, even if he is rehabbed it will be unlikely that he can do anything but dressage or more than cross rails. Extremely disappointing, I was quite upset because this horse was perfect in every other way.
I really appreciated this experience. You learn something new every day. Above all, I mostly appreciate the vet being extremely honest and candid with me. I will definitely be using this vet again.
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