Neighbors want to log, and use my field for staging

[CVPeg]

Anyone else had this situation?
I may be gone for a long time for work shortly, and would not be around to see that they have returned the field in good shape.
Have you had agreements to allow your land to be used for something similar?

Neighbor owns 300 acres on a seasonal road. I own the property between him and the main road. The trees would be staged in a small field I have adjacent to the main road. I haven’t kept the field up in recent years, but is not an eyesore. And I have my place on the market, so it may look like MY land is being logged. Neighbor is in a Federal forestry program, and is having ash trees removed “due to ashbore disease”. Not that he wouldn’t realize any income as a result.

I walked my property with his forester last week as there was some possibility I might have some wood to take as well. I don’t. So it would be all for neighbor’s gain.

I don’t want to be a “disagreeable neighbor”, but 300 acre owner is an out-of-state attorney who can certainly stand up for himself.

When first talking it over with forester, I said I wanted the field returned in condition, and then mowed later in the season in lieu of their using my field. He agreed. He changed his mind when walking my property. Then changed it back again when we returned to the field.

Forester has also thrown in another red flag. Saying that his logger’s “truck insurance” is adequate for a Certificate of Insurance for logging. I am a claims adjuster, and know it’s not. I need a Certificate of Insurance for the logging business, not the truck.

I thought I should require the field graded and left as before, and will request a payment and have someone local mow later. The trees are supposed to be taken next month, and mowing wouldn’t be needed until at least May/June.

It’s a headache to have to worry about this.
If I say “no” to the staging, they truly have nowhere else to do it.

[poltroon]

How much will the field necessarily be trashed just by the heavy equipment and soft ground? Ruts alone then regraded won’t leave your field as strong as it was before, due to the soil disturbance.

I don’t think it would be wrong to ask for some compensation for your risk, time, inconvenience, and worry in addition to simply making you whole.

[clanter]

There would have to have a lease be written that required the land to mowed, graded, reseeded, removal of any junk they either brought in or caused and the land and ROADS to be returned in better condition than before is what I would expect. There should be a performance bond or some major dollars placed in escrow with my bank officer to ensure that everything was returned in equal or better than before condition.

The most common way for the emerald ash borer to spread is through people moving infested materials such as firewood, logs, branches, nursery stock, chips or other ash wood… so if you didn’t have any problem before you just may afterwards

[fordtraktor]

No way. I have property that was logged right before we bought it. They usually say it will look great but actually they make a giant mess.

[moving_to_dc]

No way would I do it, especially with your place on the market. It is an absolute eyesore when it is happening, and I would be VERY concerned that the activity would immediately turn away prospective buyers.

Nope. Nope. Nope.

[goodhors]

Lease him the property with a contact containing language for making property get returned to good condition, brush removed, ruts gone so it can be mowed without problems, road graded smooth again when finished. Insurance coverage, lease terms all covered in the contract written by your lawyer. You make a modest amount of money, land is left in good, sellable condition, able to be mowed. Perhaps wording about “approved final condition” by an agreed upon land inspector when they get done using land, to close the contract out if you areceived unavailable.

[goodhors]

Blasted auto correct. Was supposed to be “if you are unavailable” for inspecting land your self.

I have had trees taken off my land and they did a nice job. Land had no damage, I made money selling the trees and was happy with the whole process.

[jawa]

We have had trees logged on our property and things went smoothly. We have had logging done and things went less than smoothly. I have witnessed what happened to our neighbors property which was logged during a rainy/wet winter with no one to tell the loggers to stop because they were causing 3-4 foot deep ruts.

If you can’t be there to over see the project…I’d have to say no.

The attorney who owns the forested property knew he had purchased a piece that was land locked. If he didn’t know then he would need to check with his title insurance.

Another alternative is that he stage on his own land (make a loading dock) and only drive across yours. I would have them put down wood pallets the length of the “drive way” they would need on your land.

Another reason to not have the staging area on your land is the leaking equipment. That stuff gets BEAT UP and something seems to be eternally leaking hydraulic or some other such fluid.

[CVPeg]

The field is a small one, and is the only part of my land they would have access to, and is not planted - just grass and weeds. lol. But not ugly, and right next to the main road. Why they need it… They will not be on the rest of my land, or trails at all, and not touching any of my trees. Once they head down the seasonal road, they would dump trees into my small field, to be carted away by the logging truck.

I had my land logged 3-4? years ago, which was a good thing. When walking through last week, the forester noted I already have the ash disease. Guess I’ve misstated - it’s not emerald ash borer, but another ash disease.
There are no roads of mine, nor trails of mine, nor other fields they would travel on, and that has been clearly stated in our texts, etc.

And I would trust him less if I did lease the property. This attorney has only “shown” my tractor road to a contractor previously when he kept insisting he wanted my land for a lowball figure. When I got back home, had it all flagged “just in case”. For what? Had him remove the flags. But atty should be in NJ when this is happening. Logger knows he is not removing one tree from my property. I think “leasing” it to him would give him lots of things he could do with it for the short term. And that might bollux up its sale readiness even more.

When my logging was done, they did leave a mess - back in my woods, but kept the trails cleared. It’s unnerving when you walk through and it’s apparent. But doesn’t look bad at all in the spring. They used this same field for staging, and did clean it up properly, although the ground was frozen solid that year.

Although I WAS thinking of having cash in escrow until I’ve had a chance to see the place once it’s “returned to normal”.

[Bluey]

Since you are selling, I would say no, just not feasible with you gone and the land for sale.

Under other circumstances, you could deal with them, requesting liability insurance that names you as co-insured, etc.
The kind of contract a contract/real estate attorney here does all the time for clients.
It is always good to try to work with your neighbors, but only when it makes sense.

If you decide to let them, get your own attorney to advise you how to proceed.

If you were not in the process of selling, maybe.
With your place for sale, no way that is even something to consider.
Your neighbor is imposing by even asking, once he was told that.

Let him wait until he can talk with the next owner.
If you are still not sure, contact an attorney familiar with those situations and see what they tell you.

[CVPeg]

@jawa

I have witnessed what happened to our neighbors property which was logged during a rainy/wet winter with no one to tell the loggers to stop because they were causing 3-4 foot deep ruts.

If you can’t be there to over see the project…I’d have to say no.

The attorney who owns the forested property knew he had purchased a piece that was land locked. If he didn’t know then he would need to check with his title insurance.

Another alternative is that he stage on his own land (make a loading dock) and only drive across yours. I would have them put down wood pallets the length of the “drive way” they would need on your land.

Another reason to not have the staging area on your land is the leaking equipment. That stuff gets BEAT UP and something seems to be eternally leaking hydraulic or some other such fluid.

Yeah, I am worried about if it’s too wet, but they are also trying to do this when it’s very cold. When I had mine done.

Across the seasonal road from me is another neighbor with a lovely lawn, lovely colonial. They won’t be doing any staging there. They are only going to use about 1/2 acre next to the road of my property. Why I’m wondering if I’m being unreasonable.

[Bluey]

@CVPeg

Yeah, I am worried about if it’s too wet, but they are also trying to do this when it’s very cold. When I had mine done.

Across the seasonal road from me is another neighbor with a lovely lawn, lovely colonial. They won’t be doing any staging there. They are only going to use about 1/2 acre next to the road of my property. Why I’m wondering if I’m being unreasonable.

Consult with a good real estate attorney, they can tell you how to proceed in your situation.

If that neighbor wanted your land before, ask if he would consider buying it, see what he tells you.

[Sugarwells]

Offer them to buy your property.

[Hilary]

Let them buy that field! Or only allow this to occur when everything is frozen solid and they won’t damage the ground very much. What a pain.

[Guilherme]

Maybe you should hire an attorney to draft a contract to cover the lease of the land and the work to be permitted and the cleanup to be done afterwards. Escrow of a damage deposit would not be unreasonable. Doing a lease is not give more latitude it’s likely giving less. If you execute an oral lease for “staging for logging” you are charged with knowing what such “staging” entails. If you have a written lease then you know precisely what you’re agreeing to without having to educate yourself on the ins and outs of logging.

We did a logging project about 25 years ago and the stage we used was a small, natural cove. Never saw the staging area unless I went into it which I did a couple of times a week. The drive to main road was close to 1/2 mile over a couple of fields. The worst came when one of the truck drivers decided that it was too much work to open and close gates so on the way in he left them unlatched but pulled to and then tied to push them out of the way with his bumper. He would then get out and re-latch the gate (there was no stock in the fields he was crossing). The first gate worked OK. The second gate ended up a work of modern art. And he didn’t tell anybody: I found it the next day. I had a short chat with the foreman of the crew and it didn’t happen again. The want to straighten the gate and I clearly indicated that was not acceptable. I had a new one the next day.

You don’t have to do this if you don’t want to and can charge what the traffic will bear. But you should have a proper written contract. Make whatever fee you will charge enough to cover the cost of your lawyer.

G.

[Scarlet_Gilia]

I would be the “disagreeable neighbor” - too many things could go wrong, and you’re not going to be there to stop any problems before they get out of hand. I would hand them a copy of your real estate listing; let them buy your place if they need a staging area that badly.

[CVPeg]

Oh, and neighbor has been asking for my property - at $1000/acre - what he paid for his land-locked property 15 years ago. And there is a network of good ole boys/hunters that keep wanting to pay only that, when they travel to central NY for property. Land prices froze for a few years when fracking showed up. Now the Courts have decided Towns in NY have the right to decide on zoning/disallowing fracking, and it’s not allowed here now. So prices should be headed back up. And should be more than $1k/acre if you do have frontage.

Although he has also been helpful to some extent - entirely for his own benefit, but mine as well. As seasonal road is his only access, he has paid contractors to improve it. It is the Town’s road, but they have very limited funds. So I have benefited from this as well because it also takes me to the top of my property. Another consideration in my “being neighborly” conundrum.

[clanter]

Land prices froze for a few years when fracking showed up. Now the Courts have decided Towns in NY have the right to decide on zoning/disallowing fracking, and it’s not allowed here now. So prices should be headed back up. And should be more than $1k/acre if you do have frontage.

just a note regarding natural gas production by fracking … we have not seen an issue…zero…we leased the oil and gas drilling rights for $25,000 per acre … which does not include production royalties … nothing has been distributed on our land, zero issues, no problems whatsoever.

but back to the trees

[hosspuller]

Suggestion: No staging area on your land. But a temporary easement to access staging area on his land. The easement is to be graded and graveled to X specification for heavy truck traffic.

He gets to cross your land to main road and you get another access road to your land. Without worry over the condition of the land after logging is completed.

[mmeqcenter]

@CVPeg

Oh, and neighbor has been asking for my property - at $1000/acre

$1k/acre? There’s 22 acres behind me calling my name, if only it were that cheap…