NO NO NO.
I stand by my original comment. NJ attorney can buy your house and property, at the price you are asking or all deals are off.
You are sounding like a women . Like so many women trained to be nice and doesn’t like to say NO or have people not like her or be offended by her.
Stand tall, say no you have much to lose and nothing to gain!
Thanks for the help all.
I am getting cold feet about this whole idea, and stressed about having to deal with it.
I have looked into things more - talked w/ NYS Dept of Environmental Conservation, to the Town DPW (because the road they want to use is treacherous), to friends about the logger (who is ANOTHER neighbor - a new one :rolleyes:), etc.
Am getting very stressed by the entire idea, and the fact I may not be here. And WHILE I have my place for sale.
Sent e-mail to my atty today to 1) check if there is any reason I would be forced to allow him through my field - his only option, and 2) if I had to, a long list of contractual requirements - many of which DEC would require - and they aren’t easy.
We’ll see what the response is…
Neighbor isn’t sure how much acreage he will actually log and somehow you are expected to agree to let him use your property? Neighbor hires individual that cannot safely park his truck while loading and unloading motorized equipment? Neighbor hires individual who has such little regard for you that he feels it is permissible to flag your property without permission? Neighbor keeps making low-ball offers for your property? Neighbor needs you and this is how he hopes to gain your favor?
I concur with everyone else. You don’t need the hassle or the stress. This situation has all the markings of something that will become much bigger, much more complicated and take much more time than anticipated.
As if that weren’t enough, you’ll be out of town and the property will be for sale. Nope. Mr. Attorney can solve his own problems. I’m sure he has a plan “B”.
My issue wouldn’t be about the actual logging…it’s sometimes the best thing for the forest and certainly a landowner can and should benefit from it. What concerns me here is what you and others have mentioned relative to so many “red flags” about the logger and the situation in general. Something is amiss here. Something doesn’t add up. And something is potentially going to bite you in the backside as a result. And it will cost you money.
If you do decide to go through with this, I believe that there needs to be a substantial bond/escrow posted to cover damages and other issues that might results relative to the restoration of your property to at least the same condition it was prior to the job. That gives you financial insurance that would cover needing to do the work yourself. And that money needs to be held by an independent party. Further, you need real proof of insurance that not only shows coverage for general liability, but also workmans comp, etc., You must have a certificate that makes you a named insured, too. This is exactly the same situation as if you were hiring a contractor to do work on your home…you would need them to be insured and you would need to be a named insured for the duration of the job. Do not waiver on these things if, again, for some reason you decide to permit the use of your land.
Get a quote for the cost to completely renovate the area they might use-- remove whatever rock they put down, decompact, restore topsoil, re-seed. For a general idea, I have a current estimate for restoring a 4-acre area that we plan to use as a laydown yard (it’s currently farmed, we’d be putting down 6" of rock to accommodate 200+trucks unloading material on it. That restoration cost, for us to return it to original arable condition, for 4 acres is $175,000.
THAT’s your number-- not a lease payment, and not $1k an acre purchase price–because that’s what you stand to lose. Contracts are fine, but you have to be prepared to enforce them, and the counterparty needs to have the financial resources to be worth going after. I’d bet a mint that this logger does not have those resources to fix your land when the truckers ruin it. So when you sue him for breach of contract, it’d be a hollow victory because you’re still stuck with ruined ground.
It is not your problem that this neighbor bought property that does not have sufficient access for him to use it as he wishes. This is not your problem, and that does not make you “not nice”.
Name a reasonable price to sell a permanent access lane, and just let that offer sit there until it becomes worth it to the neighbor.
I am going to join the “Just Say No” group. I am surrounded by logging operations out here in central Alabama. Even if you can get a written contract that the owner or logger has to restore the property collecting on a judgement may well be next to impossible. So the requester is a lawyer - he can tie you up in court forever trying to collect and I bet the logger doesn’t have a pot to pee in.
Also a property next to me was not clear cut but was selectively logged. The area where they loaded the logs had multiple pools of oily greasy stuff all over the ground which persisted for years. Nothing grows there. Diesel fuel? transmission fluids? Heck if I know. Loggers out here are pigs. They leave crap all over the place. I suspect this acre or so is now a Superfund Clean-up site. How are you going to sell property that has environmental liabilities associated with it?
Since you want to sell your property get an appraiser out there to give you an appraisal. Then offer him ( the neighbor) the entire property at the price it is appraised at. He can pay up or keep off your property. I suspect the reason he has this guy doing to work is because he is the low bidder. Tell the neighbor you cannot do this due to liability and environmental concerns but because the property will be for sale in the future you will be glad to sell him the entire tract. Even in rural Alabama you cannot purchase anything at $1000 per acre. Especially small tracts of land.
Setting boundaries is not being a bad neighbor.
Just sent a text to my NJ atty neighbor, advising I am not allowing any logging activity.
Hoping that’s the end of it. :nonchalance:
Good.
You should have someone check on your property while your gone…just to make sure the property line does not get…missed…should they log anyway.
Good point. Get a surveyor to stake your line prominently, and have someone stop by regularly (but at irregular times) to see how things are going. But don’t make it some big glaring confrontation – sharing a thermos of coffee or box of donuts with the actual workers goes a long,long way towards a great outcome.
If you’re not on the property while this project is happening, don’t be so sure that they won’t touch any of your trees. My in laws had timber stolen in a very similar scenario.
I would try to get the land sold as soon as possible, before you leave and that logging mess starts, even if you have to take less.
Will not be as much to worry or try to remedy if there are mishaps.
Before you leave, video the area they wanted to use, and the marked property line. That way when a “mistake” happens, you’ll have proof.
I mean video the area they wanted to use, in case the logger ‘misunderstands’ that you didn’t give permission, and the logger uses it anyway.
Haven’t heard a word since sending atty neighbor a text denying his request.
I don’t think they would take anything, but will take some shots before I leave.
Had my own property logged 4-5 years ago, and the logger says not much left worth coming on to my property for except for some close behind the house which I said I would never log - well off the seasonal road they’ll be using. And that seasonal road passes along the northern border of my property so now there is no reason for them to be on it at all. And he has his own 300 acres to log above me. If he can.
Not sure how they’ll work out any logistics, if they can do it at all now. But just a relief knowing they won’t be in my field. It was such a headache. And you’re right - probably playing the pleasing woman, although also raised in a community where most people help each other out. But that was then. This is now.
If you are gone, can the logger still use your land, then say he was told it was ok, your neighbor say he said no it was not and both put it on the other, while the damage is done and no recourse, since you don’t have a contract?
May want to try to avoid that, have someone that knows the score check for you, just in case.
No, the neighbor has a forester who located the logger. Neighbor now knows no permission, and they are all in a chain agency wise, with neighbor at the top. Where they want to use my property for staging is right next to a busy road and is an open field so any activity there is very apparent.
And I have people who keep an eye on the place when I’m gone, and my field is close to my house, and next to that busy road which several pass by several times a day. So it’s right out there for people to see, and the rest of my property shouldn’t be appealing for anything else.
Plus I’m advising the Town Highway Dept that I have not given permission for the field to be used. They’ll also be going by there enough.
Still waiting to hear on a job. Prefer one that allows me to stay home, so I would know for sure what’s happening.
Post no trespassing signs. Could they improve the seasonal road ? Would their logging cause erosion problems and runoff on to your property ?
Have ‘no trespassing signs up already’ - needed for deer hunting. But have thought of getting more to put up front.
The 300 acres owned by atty neighbor is 1/3 mile up the seasonal road at the top of the hill. Most of his property behind mine is fields; where he is logging is behind a neighbor’s. And atty neighbor has already put a lot of money into the seasonal road - even though the town still owns it. We are the only property owners on it. It ends at his property - his only access. Very steep. He owns both sides at the top.
He is in a Federal forestry program and has advised there is just a stand of ashes - 10 acres - that will be logged. I tend to believe that. But who knows. But no, most activity will be away from my property. He just wanted to use the field at the bottom of the seasonal road, at the main road.
Good for you standing your ground! If he really wants to log his land then he can buy yours at a fair market rate. That’s what any man would say and that’s what you should say too.
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