Neue Schule Turtle Top bit not legal - go to Verbindend or Trans?

[BatCoach]

Much to my dismay, despite NS being the “Official Bit of the USEF” my horse’s beloved Turtle Top loose ring snaffle is NOT USEF legal (this has been confirmed via email with the USEF).

The Verbinded and Trans-Angle lozenge bits are both legal, so anyone have any experience with these models?

We are just doing lower level, horse will sometimes lean on the bit and needs help elevating shoulders. He takes contact very willingly, but has small/low lips and a fairly low palate so I have to be careful with bit diameter and placement to keep the bit from banging his tushes or creating way too many wrinkles and pulling his lips up.

[Dbliron]

I’ve just put my Friesian mare, and our KWPN mare in the Verbindend, with fantastic results. Both mares tend to be defensive in front, the Friesian locks onto the bit in defence and the DWB hides behind it. Both are VERY happy in the 16mm Verbindend, so much so that I’ve ordered a new bradoon/curb combo with the 12mm Verbindend bradoon and the WB weymouth. Both of these horses are now working with confidence and much longer necks and relaxed polls/jaws. I am not a “bit shopper”, and I only tried the Verbindend so that someone else could use the KK Ultra I originally had on the Friesian, but the difference is nothing short of astounding.

[alibi_18]

Find a baucher and be happy!

Neue Schule makes a few models.

[csaper58]

Thank you, I have been considering trying the TT bit. Was a reason given as to why it is not legal?

[BatCoach]

[QUOTE=csaper58;8758504]
Thank you, I have been considering trying the TT bit. Was a reason given as to why it is not legal?[/QUOTE]

Here is the quote from USEF:

[I]Thank you for the additional information and images. The Neue Schule Turtle Top Bit is not allowed in USEF/USDF competitions because the surface of the mouthpiece on the tongue is not rounded and the joint type is not approved by USEF.

Many thanks,
Hannah
[/I]

[BatCoach]

[QUOTE=alibi_18;8758437]
Find a baucher and be happy!

Neue Schule makes a few models.[/QUOTE]

Interesting, I’ve never considered a Baucher before, simply because I have no experience in riding with one. what are the qualities of it? according to the NS website:

This combination of Baucher cheek and NS Tranz mouthpiece usually helps the rider to achieve and maintain a rounder and more correct outline. If your horse is constantly resisting, strung out or coming above the bit the usual response to the NS Tranz Baucher is a head lowering action and softer feel through the rein. This design often proves beneficial for the over sensitive mouth. Highly recommended where help is needed for straightness and directional control.

I’m certainly down for trying it.

[csaper58]

[QUOTE=BatCoach;8759374]
Here is the quote from USEF:

[I]Thank you for the additional information and images. The Neue Schule Turtle Top Bit is not allowed in USEF/USDF competitions because the surface of the mouthpiece on the tongue is not rounded and the joint type is not approved by USEF.

Many thanks,
Hannah
[/I][/QUOTE]

Thanks for sharing their response!

Have you looked at the Turtle Top ‘Tactio’. It might be legal, I have not been able to load the 360* view.

www.nsbits.com/product/turtle-tactio/

[RLastInstallment]

[QUOTE=csaper58;8759674]
Thanks for sharing their response!

Have you looked at the Turtle Top ‘Tactio’. It might be legal, I have not been able to load the 360* view.

www.nsbits.com/product/turtle-tactio/[/QUOTE]

The Tactio has the same joint type, which is not USEF approved. NS has a YouTube channel where Heather talks about the bits and what they do; it’s not as close up as the 360 view, but you can see how the bits move:
https://www.youtube.com/user/NeueSchuleBits

My mare goes well in the Verbindend. She’s got a pretty fleshy mouth, and a history of curling behind the bit, but she goes nicely in this one the majority of the time (I tried swapping her to a double jointed Stubben after bringing her back into work after a year because she was fussy, and she got sulky until I changed back to the Verbindend).

Heather has said in the videos about the Turtle bits that they “wrap around the tongue,” and I’m curious as to whether or not that is actually comfortable for the horse. TBH, the Tactio (just based off the video) looks an awful lot like the Verbindend when it comes to shape and the way it sits in the mouth.

[Foxtail]

[QUOTE=BatCoach;8759490]
Interesting, I’ve never considered a Baucher before, simply because I have no experience in riding with one. what are the qualities of it? according to the NS website:

This combination of Baucher cheek and NS Tranz mouthpiece usually helps the rider to achieve and maintain a rounder and more correct outline. If your horse is constantly resisting, strung out or coming above the bit the usual response to the NS Tranz Baucher is a head lowering action and softer feel through the rein. This design often proves beneficial for the over sensitive mouth. Highly recommended where help is needed for straightness and directional control.

I’m certainly down for trying it.[/QUOTE]

Personally, I love Baucher snaffles. I’ve had great results with them, and the horses I’ve used them on seem to like the extra little bit of stability that the cheeks provide. If your horse likes a full cheek with bit keepers (and I’ve only come across one horse that didn’t), then a Baucher will be fine.

I would definitely go with a French link Baucher over a single joint, preferably one with an oval link, not a flat link (Herm Sprenger makes one with an oval link, although I’m not too crazy about the way they angled the link).

That said, don’t let anyone or anything convince you that they produce leverage or act on the poll more than a normal snaffle. There’s no lower lever arm (i.e. lower shank) for the rein to act on to produce leverage.

[csaper58]

[QUOTE=RLastInstallment;8759771]
The Tactio has the same joint type, which is not USEF approved. NS has a YouTube channel where Heather talks about the bits and what they do; it’s not as close up as the 360 view, but you can see how the bits move:
https://www.youtube.com/user/NeueSchuleBits

My mare goes well in the Verbindend. She’s got a pretty fleshy mouth, and a history of curling behind the bit, but she goes nicely in this one the majority of the time (I tried swapping her to a double jointed Stubben after bringing her back into work after a year because she was fussy, and she got sulky until I changed back to the Verbindend).

Heather has said in the videos about the Turtle bits that they “wrap around the tongue,” and I’m curious as to whether or not that is actually comfortable for the horse. TBH, the Tactio (just based off the video) looks an awful lot like the Verbindend when it comes to shape and the way it sits in the mouth.[/QUOTE]

I have a question about the Verbindend. My horse has a short mouth and hates a bit that hangs low towards the tip of his tongue. Does the Verbindend hang in the mouth the way it does in the pictures?

I will watch the videos ASAP. Thanks once more for that link.

[RLastInstallment]

[QUOTE=csaper58;8759792]
I have a question about the Verbindend. My horse has a short mouth and hates a bit that hangs low towards the tip of his tongue. Does the Verbindend hang in the mouth the way it does in the pictures?

I will watch the videos ASAP. Thanks once more for that link.[/QUOTE]

I don’t think the Verbindend sits terribly low, but I’ll admit that I haven’t looked too hard at it since I got it two years ago. When I go ride tonight, I’ll look more closely.

The Turtle bits are supposed to sit higher (but legality is an issue, and all that). Again, to me, the Tactio looks very similar to the Verbindend, but without seeing them side-by-side in person, I can’t really tell.

You could probably email NS and get a good answer. They seem really nice and helpful; I talked to a few representatives at a trade show and they were all great.

[alibi_18]

[QUOTE=BatCoach;8759490]
Interesting, I’ve never considered a Baucher before, simply because I have no experience in riding with one. what are the qualities of it?

I’m certainly down for trying it.[/QUOTE]

Baucher bits are good for low palate and short lips.

The fixed cheek add stability (like a full cheek would do.) but will lift in the mouth when you apply rein aids, it helps with horses that like to lean.

[Dbliron]

I received the Verbindend bridoon (12mm) and the WB weymouth (14mm) this morning, and rode with them. The Friesian mare was really lovely in that combination, whereas in the HS bits she was always very tight. Clearly the weird shape of the mouthpieces really work for horses who don’t like tongue pressure. I’m very glad I happened upon the Verbindend, as it has revolutionized our training, and I’m sure that will also be true in competition.

[Shenandoah]

I have the verbidend. Horse loves it. Originally bought 4 3/4" with 65mm rings (bradoon is 55 and reg. is 70mm). Too small and selling it. Horse needed a 5" and I could not return the smaller size. Made a huge difference!

[Spice_Girl]

Oh dear, I hope the Tacito is legal in Australia. I bought one not long ago after it was recommended for my boy’s fussy mouth and it was advertised as being dressage legal. He does go very well in it and I would hate to change now. I think I will be ringing our ruling body next week!

[diceuf]

Which brands do you like for a baucher?

[diceuf]

Which brands do you like for a baucher?

[QUOTE=Foxtail;8759774]
Personally, I love Baucher snaffles. I’ve had great results with them, and the horses I’ve used them on seem to like the extra little bit of stability that the cheeks provide. If your horse likes a full cheek with bit keepers (and I’ve only come across one horse that didn’t), then a Baucher will be fine.

I would definitely go with a French link Baucher over a single joint, preferably one with an oval link, not a flat link (Herm Sprenger makes one with an oval link, although I’m not too crazy about the way they angled the link).

That said, don’t let anyone or anything convince you that they produce leverage or act on the poll more than a normal snaffle. There’s no lower lever arm (i.e. lower shank) for the rein to act on to produce leverage.[/QUOTE]

[SonnysMom]

I have a Myler Baucher. My horse has a shallow pallet and leans. I have not tried other more conventional Bauchers to see if they would work as well.

There are places that will allow you to “try” the Mylers before you buy. In a way you are renting them for $15-$25 and they will apply that to the purchase price if you keep the bit. At least you aren’t stuck with a bit that is expensive and your horse hates.